BLUEBALLS ZZ

iTrader: (2)

i had a pinion bearing go bad in my 12 bolt moser and i need to know what bearing race install tool you are using. i found 2 types. one is for pinion bearing races and one is for general uses such as wheel bearing etc..i can get the general bearing race now. but i will have to order this one and wait a week. http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/to...page=4� have any of you used the general kit with any success? http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...4177_200354177

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

All you need is a 3/4" diameter brass punch and a baby sledge hammer to install the bearing. The brass will NOT hurt it at all. Just work it in going in a circular fashion. Done.

BLUEBALLS ZZ

iTrader: (2)

normally i would agree. but the race that came out took everything i had in me to knock the bastard out. i will freeze the bearing race before i install it. i already ordered the ordered the right tool to do the job. thanks anyway.

TDP

iTrader: (23)

I use the Kent-Moore race drivers. It looks like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KENT-...motiveQ5fTools

...and has a handle that threads into the driver (J-8092). It takes about 30 seconds to seat the race.

waynehartwig

Never use brass! Brass will flake and can get in between the race and housing, messing up the setup.

They should not be that difficult. Did you tap one side, then tap the other side - back and forth? Or did you just beat the hell out of the one side until it shot out and across the room?

When you put it back together, just tap it in lightly side to side and it will go in a lot easier. No need to freeze it, but if you do it will probably slip in with little to no force.

As for bearing drivers? Naw.... I use a soft steel chisel from Harbor Freight. They don't flake - not brittle, and will deform way before you hurt the bearing cup. If you don't like that, then just use the old cup to beat on.

...Don't forget the red loctite on the pinion nut!

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Harbor Freight PN 95853. Cheap, and lifetime guarantee. Their bearing separator is a must have too for future gear changes.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

So here's a question...if you have a bearing separator and a race driver of some sort, do you need a hydraulic press for anything when doing a gear swap?

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Yes. You need to press a new bearing onto the pinion. Its also handy to have all these tools in the shop where you're working so that you can remove the pinion bearing AGAIN after you realize that your teeth pattern is off because you used the wrong shim between the pinion and the bearing. (Some say use the stock shim... but some gears have a little +.004 or something that indicates a stock size plus that much... I think). Harbor Freight on the press too if you need to buy one.

waynehartwig

No, I don't think you need a press to do gear installs. Bearings can be nocked on with a piece of pipe, or another bearing, or?

As for this, use a setup bearing. The bearing then slides on and off when you need to make the changes. Then when you like what you've got, put the new bearing on. I do this with races too. Like D60's, they have the pinion depth shims under the inner pinion bearing race. So I'll make it so the race will fit in/remove easily.

Setup bearings are easy to make. When I need one, I typically just reuse the old one. I have a lathe and will cut a few thousands out, but you can use a flapper wheel just as easy....

The Harbor Freight press is junk and barely worth the $200 for it the scrap metal. If you need a press, go buy a good one. If you don't, go down to your local shop and pay them $20 to do your press work. The HF press doesn't have any stability on the 'pecker' and if the work isn't just right, that pecker will slide off and can launch you work across the room. Hopefully you, or anyone else, won't get hurt when it does.

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Good info about the setup bearing. That would make life much easier. I am a Manager at the Harbor Freight in Montgomery, AL now. I haven't personally used our presses, so I really couldnt provide a solid testimony. My customers seem to like them though. I have always said, though, that a welder could easily make a press as all it really is is a bottle jack secured to a few I beams with an adjustable platform. The press I used to do my pinion was a hand made unit, and I just used a long pipe to fit over the pinion and onto the meaty portion of the bearing. Worked great. When I started working at HFT I took a good look at our press and thought that it would work pretty good... considering the only one that I used was hand-made and worked like a charm. Hell, bottle jacks are only about $20

waynehartwig

The problem with the HF press is the pecker isn't supported and can move all over the place. Then what happens is it's nearly impossible to push straight onto your work.

Here is a picture of my small press (30 ton) - note, it's using a HF bottle jack So I don't have anything against HF in general..

See the pecker? It's being supported by a piece of 2" solid round stock that is 6" long and machined to accept the pecker. See the large nuts, those go to the large bars that attach to a peice of 2x1" thick tool steel that the jack presses against. The bottom of the jack is sitting on a platform that is attached to the pecker. Between that bottom peice and the platform is a coil spring from a helper coil. Doing it this way insures the pecker can ONLY move up and down.

My much larger 80 ton press is the same way. I also have a differential table that lays flat with the same thing on both ends. Only difference is both are hydraulic, instead of bottle jack. Oh, and on the 80 ton press, you can't move the table by yourself - forklift or crane only.

Also, welds can break easily and are on a sheer plane when used in a press. Bolts are much stronger. Not only are bolts stronger, but it makes it easier to take it apart to move or change something

Sorry for the hijack

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Thats pretty sweet there. I'll be sure to take a closer look at our presses but I have a pretty good idea of what you're talking about there. As far as other tools to do rear end work I can say for sure that they work great. I guess for the whole job you would need a press, bearing drivers, Big prybar, torque wrench (we've checked ours and they are within the same standards as the name brand wrenches), bearing separator, dial caliper/magnetic base... and I think thats it other than normal hand tools. Pretty easy job, just a lot of time.

waynehartwig

Your big prybar is too soft and bends easily - I have one. You will also need an inch lb torque wrench, which you don't carry. Take taht back, you have the clicker style and that doesn't work well for this application - you need the bar style.

Here is the best bearing puller on the market. Forget about bearing splitters and etc... Most of the time you can't get them between the bearing and pinion/case.
http://www.ringpinion.com/ProductDet...px?ProdID=5277
It's a clam shell design that traps the bearing/race and pulls it off as an assembly. Unless used wrong, the bearing can be reused. No press is needed. It's fast and easy to setup. Then just run the impact down to pull the bearing off. Viola! They also have a kit for pressed on wheel bearings, for like your SET20 kits (Ford 9").

If you do a lot of them like I do, the right tools are important and sometimes the $80 ones don't work as well as the specialty tools do. Obviously buying all of the correct tools is expensive and way out of scope for the garage mechanic that is only doing one or two. But having the right tools for the job sure makes the job go faster and easier and your not left trying to improvise.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

So what tools are absolutely necessary for someone like me that is only going to be doing my Strange 12-bolt ring and pinion?

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Wow, I thought it was common to use a brass punch to drive the rings into the housing. Worked for me many times on the 10 bolt. Oh well.

waynehartwig

IMO bare min.-
bearing driver - This can be a punch or piece of tube. Whatever you need to get the bearing on and the race in the housing.
prybar/block of wood - to get the carrier out while setting up carrier preload and backlash.
inch lb torque wrench - beam style, not click style. Bike shop is a good source for these.
foot lb torque wrench - You'll need this for the ring gear bolts, carrier cap bolts and pinion nut.
bearing separator - to get the old bearings off
dial caliper/magnetic base - to set/measure backlash

Crush sleeves require roughly 300 ft lbs to begin crushing. Obviously that is more than the 180-200 ft lbs recommended on the pinion nut. So if you have a crush sleeve, you can pretty much assume you've met the torque settings.

If you over crush a crush sleeve, it must be replaced. You can not simply back it off a little to get back in spec.

Pinion preload needs to be in spec for axle and measured before the pinion seal is put in place with liberal amounts of gear oil on the bearings. Preload is measured as a rotating load and not starting load.

Carrier preload is VERY important and you can never have too much! On dropouts, I torque the side adjusters to 150 ftlbs!! On others I will setup the carrier so it's good and snug, then add another .020" of shims. I've never seen a carrier bearing fail from too much preload.

Carrier preload will preload the case and housing, reducing chances of pinion head deflection. I've installed thousands of gear sets in all kinds of applications - street, strip and offroad and have never had a gear set chip a tooth. I have had pinion heads bust off, but no chipped/cracked teeth.

Remember, red loctite on the pinion nut and ring gear bolts. I advise only using new ring gear bolts and pinion nut. Ring gear bolts do stretch, and once they stretch, they will become loose, fall out and ruin your day.

I will always file the ring gear/case mating surfaces to be sure there are no high/low spots or burrs. Even a new case/gear set will get filed and checked.

Carrier cap bolts I just make sure are clean and put a little gear oil on the threads and under the head of the bolt. Some will use red loctite, I won't. I've never seen them come out when torqued properly.

A lot of diff shops will sell brass drifts for diff work, because it's softer than the bearing/race. I however avoid them because they will flake and the flakes will get in places and change your setup. Remember, cleanliness is godliness when setting up diffs. Just a hair can change the setup. Your messing with shims that vary .001". Worst part is any dirt, hair, brass/steel flakes will change the setting and also fall out later causing the pinion to become loose.

Schitzo

iTrader: (6)

so what do you use to remove old pinion races. I am about to rebuild a diff and I was going to use a brass drift to remove the old races.

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Long solid punch and BFH will remove them from the housing.

waynehartwig

Yup! I actually use some 1/2" solid cold roll about 12" long as a drift.