Ls1 in Monte carlo
03-29-2004, 11:23 AM
#1
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Norman OK
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ls1 in Monte carlo Anyone put an LS1 motor in a 87 monte carlo? If so how bad and what was all invoved in it, cost wise and custom fabing ect.
Thanks
also any web sites dealing with this swap?
Thanks
also any web sites dealing with this swap?
03-29-2004, 11:31 AM
#2
On The Tree
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check out John's website: http://home.earthlink.net/~bzdel/
He has an LS1 in his '88 and I think he resells many of the parts he needed to fabricate to make the conversion.
He has an LS1 in his '88 and I think he resells many of the parts he needed to fabricate to make the conversion.
03-29-2004, 06:12 PM
#3
Originally Posted by grooves12
Check out John's website: http://home.earthlink.net/~bzdel/
He has an LS1 in his '88 and I think he resells many of the parts he needed to fabricate to make the conversion.
He has an LS1 in his '88 and I think he resells many of the parts he needed to fabricate to make the conversion.
03-29-2004, 10:58 PM
#4
Thanks for the thumbs up Jeff!
98TA86, after you look over the swap pages on my website drop me an e-mail note if you're interested in doing the same swap. With my motor mounts and modded oil pan, you're in for a drop-in installation with no hacking of the frame!
98TA86, after you look over the swap pages on my website drop me an e-mail note if you're interested in doing the same swap. With my motor mounts and modded oil pan, you're in for a drop-in installation with no hacking of the frame!
03-30-2004, 12:52 PM
#5
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Low Buck Alternative Swap John: I am Interested in this Swap Also. You Spent 16K on your car I think it could be done for 5-6K using 5.3 iron motor. Here me out
Get late 2000 5.3 and L460E from a truck 1k vs 4K for allum Ls1.
Punch out block 120 over and install new studs
Get a crank rods pistons used from a 5.7 no balancing needed.
Install new rings bearings oil pump use truck oil pan.
You now have an iron block 5.7 motor.
use used ls1 heads or rework 5.3s
use comp cams Ls6 relacement cam no tuning needed.
get used ls6 manifold injectors and fuel rails.
Use S@P headrers enlarge collector to 3 inch and motor mount plates.
get a converter
use Gforce crossmember and 3 inch exhaust and coverters.
fab short pipes to headers.
use 98 camaro computer and painless universal harness.
use Buick GN tank pump and sender
use S$P or other vette regulator mount low drivers side.
use gn evap and main fuel lines from inline tube.
fab rear lines to tank.
Truck coil brackets and truck ac and accessories should clear frame
Comments
Thanks
Get late 2000 5.3 and L460E from a truck 1k vs 4K for allum Ls1.
Punch out block 120 over and install new studs
Get a crank rods pistons used from a 5.7 no balancing needed.
Install new rings bearings oil pump use truck oil pan.
You now have an iron block 5.7 motor.
use used ls1 heads or rework 5.3s
use comp cams Ls6 relacement cam no tuning needed.
get used ls6 manifold injectors and fuel rails.
Use S@P headrers enlarge collector to 3 inch and motor mount plates.
get a converter
use Gforce crossmember and 3 inch exhaust and coverters.
fab short pipes to headers.
use 98 camaro computer and painless universal harness.
use Buick GN tank pump and sender
use S$P or other vette regulator mount low drivers side.
use gn evap and main fuel lines from inline tube.
fab rear lines to tank.
Truck coil brackets and truck ac and accessories should clear frame
Comments
Thanks
03-30-2004, 12:59 PM
#6
Launching!
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CALIFORNIA
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Johns spent so much because he was a pioneer in the ls1 swap arena. And he took extra steps to make sure his swap was great and flawless. As of today yes of course the swap can be done on a budget but at what price? Are you willing to hack away your frame and cut corners to do some cheap hack job? I know I wouldnt.
P.S. John how much for the motor mounts and oil pan? I plan on using my 700r4 I have in the car now because it is a built unit and has seen well over 500 hp and 600 ft/lbs tq. Will your motor mounts line up with an older style auto?
P.S. John how much for the motor mounts and oil pan? I plan on using my 700r4 I have in the car now because it is a built unit and has seen well over 500 hp and 600 ft/lbs tq. Will your motor mounts line up with an older style auto?
03-30-2004, 09:08 PM
#7
Teching In
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: KY
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The truck engine won't fit as neatly in that engine compartment as you might think. I'm playing with one right now, and it's actually MUCH wider than the LS1 from an f-body. The P/S and alternator are giving me clearance issues by about 3"... and I'm putting them in a truck.
John's work here is awesome. I haven't even started fabricating anything yet, and I'm about to pull my hair out. I guess I just don't have the patience for this type of project. Wicked job!!
John's work here is awesome. I haven't even started fabricating anything yet, and I'm about to pull my hair out. I guess I just don't have the patience for this type of project. Wicked job!!
Trending Topics
03-30-2004, 11:26 PM
#8
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No Disrespect to JOHN John did a Great job on his car and was one of the 1st to do this.
There are 9 millon of the G body cars made from 78-88 to me there seems to be a big market out there for a kit to do this job. If anyone has used the S and P Motor mount kit with the G force Crossmember I would like to know if all the bolt holes line up. If so this is a true bolt in. If so S and P should get together with G force to Make a set of 3 inch long tube headers that would bolt directly to there converters and exhaust system. They could then sell a kit with Motor mount plates, crossmember, converters and 3 inch duals for around $1,400 bucks it would make life easier. there are kits out for 3rd gen Camaros allready. Check out there exhaust systems Awsome and not to expensive. WWW.crossmembers.com is there site.
There are 9 millon of the G body cars made from 78-88 to me there seems to be a big market out there for a kit to do this job. If anyone has used the S and P Motor mount kit with the G force Crossmember I would like to know if all the bolt holes line up. If so this is a true bolt in. If so S and P should get together with G force to Make a set of 3 inch long tube headers that would bolt directly to there converters and exhaust system. They could then sell a kit with Motor mount plates, crossmember, converters and 3 inch duals for around $1,400 bucks it would make life easier. there are kits out for 3rd gen Camaros allready. Check out there exhaust systems Awsome and not to expensive. WWW.crossmembers.com is there site.
03-31-2004, 01:50 PM
#9
StickSSIt can certainly be done less expensive than what I did. Heck I could save "the next guy" a ton just on a good motor! Now that my brand new forged LS6 is up and running I'd be willing to part with my 426/400 RWHP/RWTQ longblock for $2800......that's a hell of a deal for a motor with less than 28,000 miles and this kind of power!
It also depends on your goals. I wanted a perfect factory looking installation. You don't get this with S&P mounts. The motor doesn't sit in the engine compartment correctly nor does the typical tranny fit correctly without either hacking the trans tunnel sheetmetal or tipping the engine back at a severe angle. You have none of these issues with my parts. Other issues I dealt with, as an example was the painstaking details like a fuel system which replicates what an OEM installation would look like....I spent many hours and dollars setting up a system that was not only functional but appears stock for the car. A simple '99 & Newer C5 filter solves this problem today but at the time, no one proved that this could work.
MC86 SS As for pricing of my parts, the motor mounts go for $150/pair, the modified oil pan and baffle are $250/exchange (need an F-body pan), the A/C bracket $350 (for use with an OEM LT1 compressor) plus shipping. My motor mounts were designed to also fit a 200R4 behind an LS1 using the sotck G-body crossmember.
Thanks all for the positive feedback on my swap! I'm just as excited now about my just completed suspension upgrade where I added modified C5 spindles and now have true OEM 13" disc's up front
It also depends on your goals. I wanted a perfect factory looking installation. You don't get this with S&P mounts. The motor doesn't sit in the engine compartment correctly nor does the typical tranny fit correctly without either hacking the trans tunnel sheetmetal or tipping the engine back at a severe angle. You have none of these issues with my parts. Other issues I dealt with, as an example was the painstaking details like a fuel system which replicates what an OEM installation would look like....I spent many hours and dollars setting up a system that was not only functional but appears stock for the car. A simple '99 & Newer C5 filter solves this problem today but at the time, no one proved that this could work.
MC86 SS As for pricing of my parts, the motor mounts go for $150/pair, the modified oil pan and baffle are $250/exchange (need an F-body pan), the A/C bracket $350 (for use with an OEM LT1 compressor) plus shipping. My motor mounts were designed to also fit a 200R4 behind an LS1 using the sotck G-body crossmember.
Thanks all for the positive feedback on my swap! I'm just as excited now about my just completed suspension upgrade where I added modified C5 spindles and now have true OEM 13" disc's up front
04-01-2004, 12:02 AM
#10
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reply to John John: Right now my plans are on hold since I have been out of work all winter. I will contact you by email before I start this project. I am glad you changed over your brakes the stock ones suck the rotors are to small. I may scrape doing a Monte Carlo and do an 86 or 87 Grand Prix instead. No one is building Pontiacs anymore and with a new GTO costing 33K even if you spent 8 or 9 grand you would have a better car. If you get one with a 4.3 V6 you allready have most of the plumbing for the fuel system in place. Also the collum shift quadrant is in the middle you could probably just hook it up to the L460E, also the dash has a separate pod for the Tach and Speedo you would have to messure but I think the SW electronic tach and Speedos would pop right in. I would like to see more people building these cars because they are cheap to buy and weight the same or less as a Camaro. Also they are full frame cars which are stronger. Regards
04-01-2004, 11:31 AM
#11
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Low Cost Longtube Headers John: Another Idea for the forum. Has anybody used Pacesetter Long Tube F body Headers in this Chassis. They are cheap about $250 on the Internet. The Passanger side looks like it would fit without modification. The driver side you would have to unweld the flange where it attaches to the head and cuts the tubes a little and reweld to straighten out the angle. This might work?
04-01-2004, 10:45 PM
#12
Has anybody used Pacesetter Long Tube F body Headers in this Chassis.
Last edited by John B; 04-02-2004 at 08:05 AM.
04-02-2004, 01:40 AM
#14
I do have seen John's car in person and it is nothing short of amazing. It looks pretty much like it could be stock except for the custom headers. All the stock gauges work, I mean its really incredible.
Hey John are those Monte specific mounts. How bout you put an LS1 in your truck so you can "Pioneer" the way for me to do it!!
Hey John are those Monte specific mounts. How bout you put an LS1 in your truck so you can "Pioneer" the way for me to do it!!
04-02-2004, 02:08 AM
#15
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
more on exhaust systems John: More Ideas, Since You did the mookup with the 2000R4 and stock Mount in the Stock Bolt Locations Then the G force rear Crossmeber Should Fit like factory for the L460 auto with your mount kit, Also Ther L480E crossmember Should Work also, Their t56 Crossmember uses an earlier trans I Think. Leave the flang off the gforce head pipe and get 3 inch random cats with with slip fittings and clamp together. The Passenger side looks like it would bolt right up. the driver side header still needs modification. The G force exhaust has a short 10 degree pipe between the exhaust pipe and muffler that you could adjust a little before you weld up the system. If the Pacesetters work you wolud have a very inexpensive exhaust system.
04-02-2004, 08:06 AM
#16
Hey John are those Monte specific mounts. How bout you put an LS1 in your truck so you can "Pioneer" the way for me to do it!!
04-02-2004, 10:36 AM
#17
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Headers ODBII and NJ Emissions Info for NJ Drivers Good and Bad News
I did a search through DMV regulations and it states that aftermarket parts you use must be CARB certified. So to be Technically legal you would have to run shortie headers since none of the long tubes are certified. It also states that when putting a newer engine in an older vehicle you must carry over all the emissions components from the new engine. This means you have to run cats and on 1998-2000 engines AIR and EGR, on 2001-2004 engines you would need to run AIR pump only since they did not have EGR. You could use SLP LS6 intake with EGR on older engines with EGR tube I don't know if this manifold has a CARB EO number. Pre 96 cars are exempt from ODBII so you could delete rear O2 sensors. You only have to pass Dyno test and meet 87 emission standards. It goes by the year of the Chassis not the year of the engine as in Cali.
With this in Mind will all of the Fbody Shortie Headers fit or do some work better than others? Anybody running Shortie style headers on there conversions?
I did a search through DMV regulations and it states that aftermarket parts you use must be CARB certified. So to be Technically legal you would have to run shortie headers since none of the long tubes are certified. It also states that when putting a newer engine in an older vehicle you must carry over all the emissions components from the new engine. This means you have to run cats and on 1998-2000 engines AIR and EGR, on 2001-2004 engines you would need to run AIR pump only since they did not have EGR. You could use SLP LS6 intake with EGR on older engines with EGR tube I don't know if this manifold has a CARB EO number. Pre 96 cars are exempt from ODBII so you could delete rear O2 sensors. You only have to pass Dyno test and meet 87 emission standards. It goes by the year of the Chassis not the year of the engine as in Cali.
With this in Mind will all of the Fbody Shortie Headers fit or do some work better than others? Anybody running Shortie style headers on there conversions?
04-02-2004, 12:27 PM
#18
On The Tree
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by StickSS
Info for NJ Drivers Good and Bad News
I did a search through DMV regulations and it states that aftermarket parts you use must be CARB certified. So to be Technically legal you would have to run shortie headers since none of the long tubes are certified. It also states that when putting a newer engine in an older vehicle you must carry over all the emissions components from the new engine. This means you have to run cats and on 1998-2000 engines AIR and EGR, on 2001-2004 engines you would need to run AIR pump only since they did not have EGR. You could use SLP LS6 intake with EGR on older engines with EGR tube I don't know if this manifold has a CARB EO number. Pre 96 cars are exempt from ODBII so you could delete rear O2 sensors. You only have to pass Dyno test and meet 87 emission standards. It goes by the year of the Chassis not the year of the engine as in Cali.
With this in Mind will all of the Fbody Shortie Headers fit or do some work better than others? Anybody running Shortie style headers on there conversions?
I did a search through DMV regulations and it states that aftermarket parts you use must be CARB certified. So to be Technically legal you would have to run shortie headers since none of the long tubes are certified. It also states that when putting a newer engine in an older vehicle you must carry over all the emissions components from the new engine. This means you have to run cats and on 1998-2000 engines AIR and EGR, on 2001-2004 engines you would need to run AIR pump only since they did not have EGR. You could use SLP LS6 intake with EGR on older engines with EGR tube I don't know if this manifold has a CARB EO number. Pre 96 cars are exempt from ODBII so you could delete rear O2 sensors. You only have to pass Dyno test and meet 87 emission standards. It goes by the year of the Chassis not the year of the engine as in Cali.
With this in Mind will all of the Fbody Shortie Headers fit or do some work better than others? Anybody running Shortie style headers on there conversions?
NJ is probably the same as I beleive most of the states that have gone to stricter laws have just adopted what California already had written.
Also, just to let you know... although it doesn't apply to this vehicle, I don't beleive. Headers do NOT need a CARB certification if the vehicle was not originally equipped with Catalytic converters. CARB has a special exemption in their rulebooks for this.
07-15-2004, 10:55 PM
#20
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good Project Car to build Hi everyone. I know this is an old post but I have some questions info etc. John you are welcome to chime in.
I am dieing to get into this game and have been reading up a lot lately online and in print. I came across several 87-88 monte ss' but they were to expensive or to beat up to bother with. Looked at a nice 88 ls v8, auto car. 83K miles.
depending on my job financial situation in the next few weeks I may pick it up to work on over the fall, winter .
If anyone else on the forum is interested at looking at the car or buying it please email me and I will give you the guy's name and number. I am in ny, northern NJ metro area. THiS car looks like a good candiate for a buildup. I would like to see someone on the forum get it if I Don't. He is asking 2,000 for it.
Anyhow the body is pretty good I quarter panel needs a little work. Paint is weathered needs a good paint job but ok to drive for now. has ss wheels and tires I belive 15 inch. Allready has dual exhaust and dual cats on it nd crossmember with humbs in it. This will save a ton of money.
Question 1) othr than rear and suspension and trim nose spoiler etc are there any differences between SS and LS models.
Question 2) if you convert to 12 inch GM front brakes will the 15 inch wheels fit.
Question 3) if you need 16 or 17 inch wheels will 3rd gen Iroc 16's fit.
Question 4) What car does the good ratio steering box come out of 3Rd gen Iroc.
Question 5) S and P makes a 6 bolt to four bolt housing adapter for us with 700 r4 speedo and tailhousing also GM make a tail housing that locates the mount in the same position as the 200R. Has anybody used this yet? I think it would work fine along with John's motor mounts. This way you could reuse the existing crossmemer, and factory speedo again saving a ton of money.
Question 6) Could you use the carborated gas tank and sending unit with an external pump by just enlarging the return hole to 5/16" again saving a ton of money.
Sorry for the long post but I haven't posted in a while and I am bored. Any comments feedbak feel free to chime in.
Bye for now.
I am dieing to get into this game and have been reading up a lot lately online and in print. I came across several 87-88 monte ss' but they were to expensive or to beat up to bother with. Looked at a nice 88 ls v8, auto car. 83K miles.
depending on my job financial situation in the next few weeks I may pick it up to work on over the fall, winter .
If anyone else on the forum is interested at looking at the car or buying it please email me and I will give you the guy's name and number. I am in ny, northern NJ metro area. THiS car looks like a good candiate for a buildup. I would like to see someone on the forum get it if I Don't. He is asking 2,000 for it.
Anyhow the body is pretty good I quarter panel needs a little work. Paint is weathered needs a good paint job but ok to drive for now. has ss wheels and tires I belive 15 inch. Allready has dual exhaust and dual cats on it nd crossmember with humbs in it. This will save a ton of money.
Question 1) othr than rear and suspension and trim nose spoiler etc are there any differences between SS and LS models.
Question 2) if you convert to 12 inch GM front brakes will the 15 inch wheels fit.
Question 3) if you need 16 or 17 inch wheels will 3rd gen Iroc 16's fit.
Question 4) What car does the good ratio steering box come out of 3Rd gen Iroc.
Question 5) S and P makes a 6 bolt to four bolt housing adapter for us with 700 r4 speedo and tailhousing also GM make a tail housing that locates the mount in the same position as the 200R. Has anybody used this yet? I think it would work fine along with John's motor mounts. This way you could reuse the existing crossmemer, and factory speedo again saving a ton of money.
Question 6) Could you use the carborated gas tank and sending unit with an external pump by just enlarging the return hole to 5/16" again saving a ton of money.
Sorry for the long post but I haven't posted in a while and I am bored. Any comments feedbak feel free to chime in.
Bye for now.
