T-56 Magnum Vs. TR6060
11-17-2009, 05:22 PM
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T-56 Magnum Vs. TR6060 What is the diffrence between at t-56 magnum and a tr6060? I going to replace my worn out t56 and was going to use a tr6060 but if there is reason to pick on over the other it could go either way. It look like the magnum is a little cheaper. This is going to go in my 94 Firehawk. Will one fit or have better shifter placement?
11-17-2009, 05:43 PM
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the TR-6060 is what there called my the factory(GM, ford etc.)but to put on into a car that didn't have one from the factory there called T56 Magnum. so if you buy one it's called a t56 magnum.
11-17-2009, 05:59 PM
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Same tranny. Don't waste your money, they have their weak points too. Get a good built T56 from Tick Performance or another board sponsor. At least if you need parts, you will be able to find them.
11-17-2009, 07:37 PM
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12-19-2009, 01:01 AM
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What is some prev posters agenda? Don't waste your money?, Viper rebuilt better?
Why what fact are used to make this call. I agree that if you need some 1000ftlb monster handling tranny, t56 Magnum is not the end answer but neither is the $2500 Viper rebuild! See facts below!
SORRY I KNOW BUT FORD MAG PROVIDED THE PHOTOS
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...eed/index.html
WHERE GM HIGH PERFORMANCE MAG? SLEEPING!
"This comparison of Magnum (left) and original T-56 input shafts highlights the Magnum's much larger bearing diameter and gear face width. What it doesn't clearly show is the larger diameter of the Magnum's 26-spline shaft. A 10-spline input won't be offered, so you may need to think about a new clutch disc. The length of input splines is also much greater on the Magnum in order to easily accommodate dual-disc clutch setups."
"Shift effort is also reduced, due in part to the synchronizer support system's new spring-loaded, ball-type inserts (arrow) that offer less friction than the hoop-style strut seen on the original T-56 slider. The Magnum also utilizes triple-cone synchronizers with sintered-bronze lining on the 1-2 and 3-4 sliders (the T-56's were dual-cone with carbon-paper lining), helping contribute to both its shift quality and much higher torque capacity."
"Thanks to a revised manufacturing process, the clutch teeth on the Magnum's wider driven gears (left) are of a more intricate design than previous versions, having a finer pitch as well as machined-in positive stops. This not only contributes to shift quality but also virtually eliminates the possibility of over-thrown shifts"
"Shift forks are also revised on the Magnum, with perhaps the most significant improvement being the integrated (cast-in) shift links (Z-bars) in place of the separate links found on the original T-56 (right). As you can see, the old links fit into a keyway machined right into the shift-rail bore, and it was this keyway that could lead to a bending or deflection of the shift rail or fork, and the subsequent issues with speed shifting. The shift pads on the Magnum forks are also enlarged for better control and longevity."
"This comparison of Magnum (left) and original T-56 input shafts highlights the Magnum's much larger bearing diameter and gear face width. What it doesn't clearly show is the larger diameter of the Magnum's 26-spline shaft. A 10-spline input won't be offered, so you may need to think about a new clutch disc. The length of input splines is also much greater on the Magnum in order to easily accommodate dual-disc clutch setups.
An updated version of the T56, this is the same transmission used in new Camaros and Corvettes. Revisions include larger input and output shafts, larger and stronger gears, an improved heat treatment process, a stronger case, double- and triple-cone synchronizers, laser-welded dog teeth, stronger shift forks, and shorter throws. The result is an astounding 700 lb-ft torque capacity.
Tremec also fixed the main complaint we had about the older T-56, namely gearing. On the old model, you had to choose between having a good set of First through Third ratios, or a good set of Fifth and Sixth ratios. Generally, we went with the 2.66 First, 1.78 Second, 1.30 Third, and tolerated the 0.74 Fifth and 0.50 Sixth gear ratios. Don't get us wrong, a 0.50 Sixth gear is great for meeting C.A.F.E. gas mileage standards, but it's far from a performance ratio. And while the Vette gearing would yield a more zippy 0.80 Fifth and 0.62 Sixth gear, the obligatory 2.97 First gear proved incredibly short, especially with 3.90 rear gearing. We, along with others, bitched and Tremec listened. The result is a blending of the best of both gear sets.
I too was doing the research on the best route from my 500 ft/lbs DD.
$2800.00 for the T56Magnum - the $800.00 core I should be able to sell my current tranny for results in $2000.00 . For a brand new warantee 700 ft/lbs tranny.
Sounds like a no brainer?
I even asked one of the performance rebuild shops at PRI. He said he would do the same thing.
Ed
Why what fact are used to make this call. I agree that if you need some 1000ftlb monster handling tranny, t56 Magnum is not the end answer but neither is the $2500 Viper rebuild! See facts below!
SORRY I KNOW BUT FORD MAG PROVIDED THE PHOTOS
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...eed/index.html
WHERE GM HIGH PERFORMANCE MAG? SLEEPING!
"This comparison of Magnum (left) and original T-56 input shafts highlights the Magnum's much larger bearing diameter and gear face width. What it doesn't clearly show is the larger diameter of the Magnum's 26-spline shaft. A 10-spline input won't be offered, so you may need to think about a new clutch disc. The length of input splines is also much greater on the Magnum in order to easily accommodate dual-disc clutch setups."
"Shift effort is also reduced, due in part to the synchronizer support system's new spring-loaded, ball-type inserts (arrow) that offer less friction than the hoop-style strut seen on the original T-56 slider. The Magnum also utilizes triple-cone synchronizers with sintered-bronze lining on the 1-2 and 3-4 sliders (the T-56's were dual-cone with carbon-paper lining), helping contribute to both its shift quality and much higher torque capacity."
"Thanks to a revised manufacturing process, the clutch teeth on the Magnum's wider driven gears (left) are of a more intricate design than previous versions, having a finer pitch as well as machined-in positive stops. This not only contributes to shift quality but also virtually eliminates the possibility of over-thrown shifts"
"Shift forks are also revised on the Magnum, with perhaps the most significant improvement being the integrated (cast-in) shift links (Z-bars) in place of the separate links found on the original T-56 (right). As you can see, the old links fit into a keyway machined right into the shift-rail bore, and it was this keyway that could lead to a bending or deflection of the shift rail or fork, and the subsequent issues with speed shifting. The shift pads on the Magnum forks are also enlarged for better control and longevity."
"This comparison of Magnum (left) and original T-56 input shafts highlights the Magnum's much larger bearing diameter and gear face width. What it doesn't clearly show is the larger diameter of the Magnum's 26-spline shaft. A 10-spline input won't be offered, so you may need to think about a new clutch disc. The length of input splines is also much greater on the Magnum in order to easily accommodate dual-disc clutch setups.
An updated version of the T56, this is the same transmission used in new Camaros and Corvettes. Revisions include larger input and output shafts, larger and stronger gears, an improved heat treatment process, a stronger case, double- and triple-cone synchronizers, laser-welded dog teeth, stronger shift forks, and shorter throws. The result is an astounding 700 lb-ft torque capacity.
Tremec also fixed the main complaint we had about the older T-56, namely gearing. On the old model, you had to choose between having a good set of First through Third ratios, or a good set of Fifth and Sixth ratios. Generally, we went with the 2.66 First, 1.78 Second, 1.30 Third, and tolerated the 0.74 Fifth and 0.50 Sixth gear ratios. Don't get us wrong, a 0.50 Sixth gear is great for meeting C.A.F.E. gas mileage standards, but it's far from a performance ratio. And while the Vette gearing would yield a more zippy 0.80 Fifth and 0.62 Sixth gear, the obligatory 2.97 First gear proved incredibly short, especially with 3.90 rear gearing. We, along with others, bitched and Tremec listened. The result is a blending of the best of both gear sets.
I too was doing the research on the best route from my 500 ft/lbs DD.
$2800.00 for the T56Magnum - the $800.00 core I should be able to sell my current tranny for results in $2000.00 . For a brand new warantee 700 ft/lbs tranny.
Sounds like a no brainer?
I even asked one of the performance rebuild shops at PRI. He said he would do the same thing.
Ed
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Homer_Simpson (09-23-2023)
12-19-2009, 09:07 AM
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^^ What kind of motor is this t-56 magnum being mated to? Will this fit an LS1 with no modification and use the stock style clutch This would be a great option for a lot of people if it is just drop in and go.
12-19-2009, 11:57 AM
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BRD-PREY some questions I was hoping you might have some answers to as you seem very knowledgeable about these transmissions.
The $2800.00 price for the T56Magnum is out the door with no core charge?
Would the shifter location line up with a 96 SS Camaro?
Is it easy to find the clutch disc etc to fit an LT1 because of the different spline?
Thanks
Brad
The $2800.00 price for the T56Magnum is out the door with no core charge?
Would the shifter location line up with a 96 SS Camaro?
Is it easy to find the clutch disc etc to fit an LT1 because of the different spline?
Thanks
Brad
12-20-2009, 11:41 AM
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OK, I'll throw in my $0.02 since I have first hand experience of building both T56 and TR6060 transmissions.
If you plan on racing the car, go with the Viper spec T56. I have seen the insides of both transmissions and when you miss a shift on the TR6060, you WILL eat the engagement teeth along with the synchro ring. I had a 2009 C6 Z06 with less than 2,000 miles and the owner was drag racing (there were more tires on the inner wheel wells than on the actual tire) and missed a shift ONCE!!!!! Casual driving, the 2nd gear grinded. Upon disassembly and inspection, the engagement teeth were worn away along with the synchro ring.
I have compared the engagement teeth and synchros on both transmissions. What I found was the T56 has less teeth but they are bigger and more robust compared with TR6060.
I also noticed that the TR6060 gears are wider but the wider gears fit inside the trans case that is same size as T56 case. This is achieved by using a narrower synchro set up and using more engagement teeth to compensate for it.
The reason I would use a Viper spec T56 for racing is that the T56 is more forgiving on a missed shift. Yes the engagement teeth does get rounded off but it's not as bad as the TR6060.
Take a look at the pictures and compare for yourself.
Look how small the engagement teeth are.
Sintered bronze blocking rings. They are not as durable as carbon fiber blockers from T56 IMHO.
The engagement teeth for 1-2 synchro counts are: 46 for T56 and 60 for TR6060.
This is from a 2010 Camaro with 1,200 miles. Guess what happened?
If you plan on racing the car, go with the Viper spec T56. I have seen the insides of both transmissions and when you miss a shift on the TR6060, you WILL eat the engagement teeth along with the synchro ring. I had a 2009 C6 Z06 with less than 2,000 miles and the owner was drag racing (there were more tires on the inner wheel wells than on the actual tire) and missed a shift ONCE!!!!! Casual driving, the 2nd gear grinded. Upon disassembly and inspection, the engagement teeth were worn away along with the synchro ring.
I have compared the engagement teeth and synchros on both transmissions. What I found was the T56 has less teeth but they are bigger and more robust compared with TR6060.
I also noticed that the TR6060 gears are wider but the wider gears fit inside the trans case that is same size as T56 case. This is achieved by using a narrower synchro set up and using more engagement teeth to compensate for it.
The reason I would use a Viper spec T56 for racing is that the T56 is more forgiving on a missed shift. Yes the engagement teeth does get rounded off but it's not as bad as the TR6060.
Take a look at the pictures and compare for yourself.
Look how small the engagement teeth are.
Sintered bronze blocking rings. They are not as durable as carbon fiber blockers from T56 IMHO.
The engagement teeth for 1-2 synchro counts are: 46 for T56 and 60 for TR6060.
This is from a 2010 Camaro with 1,200 miles. Guess what happened?
12-20-2009, 12:23 PM
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The T6060 is a T56 Magnum built to GM specs. In otherwords, to save money, the transmission is downgraded to handle the output of 400 HP motors. There are actually two V8 motors you can order on the new Camaro: one under 400HP and the other over 400 HP.
The T56 Magnum in its standard form is rated upto 700 ft lbs of torque compared with 450 for the T56. Neither of the above motors requires a tranny to hold that much torque, so the Magnum is downgraded to approximately the torque of the prior T56 to save GM money.
Is this penny wise and dollar foolish? Time will tell. If new buyers become angry or frustrated if and when they start to have tranny problems with 100 HP aftermarket bolt on upgrades.
Also, the Magnum is a significant upgrade in that the case was beefed up as well and not just the inner gearing. It has lots of potential. But be careful when comparing the T6060 to the Magnum. It is like comparing apples to oranges.
I do not know for certain, but it seems that GM ordered the T56 Magnum from Tremec built with prior T56 parts. It is unlikely that Tremec would redesign the tranny and pay the additional engineering for reduced output and hence reduced cost tranny. I do not know for certain, but the economics of it suggests prior T56 parts were subsituted in the new Magnum case to hold down costs.
The T56 Magnum in its standard form is rated upto 700 ft lbs of torque compared with 450 for the T56. Neither of the above motors requires a tranny to hold that much torque, so the Magnum is downgraded to approximately the torque of the prior T56 to save GM money.
Is this penny wise and dollar foolish? Time will tell. If new buyers become angry or frustrated if and when they start to have tranny problems with 100 HP aftermarket bolt on upgrades.
Also, the Magnum is a significant upgrade in that the case was beefed up as well and not just the inner gearing. It has lots of potential. But be careful when comparing the T6060 to the Magnum. It is like comparing apples to oranges.
I do not know for certain, but it seems that GM ordered the T56 Magnum from Tremec built with prior T56 parts. It is unlikely that Tremec would redesign the tranny and pay the additional engineering for reduced output and hence reduced cost tranny. I do not know for certain, but the economics of it suggests prior T56 parts were subsituted in the new Magnum case to hold down costs.
12-20-2009, 12:37 PM
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The T6060 is a T56 Magnum built to GM specs. In otherwords, to save money, the transmission is downgraded to handle the output of 400 HP motors. There are actually two V8 motors you can order on the new Camaro: one under 400HP and the other over 400 HP.
The T56 Magnum in its standard form is rated upto 700 ft lbs of torque compared with 450 for the T56. Neither of the above motors requires a tranny to hold that much torque, so the Magnum is downgraded to approximately the torque of the prior T56 to save GM money.
Is this penny wise and dollar foolish? Time will tell. If new buyers become angry or frustrated if and when they start to have tranny problems with 100 HP aftermarket bolt on upgrades.
Also, the Magnum is a significant upgrade in that the case was beefed up as well and not just the inner gearing. It has lots of potential. But be careful when comparing the T6060 to the Magnum. It is like comparing apples to oranges.
I do not know for certain, but it seems that GM ordered the T56 Magnum from Tremec built with prior T56 parts. It is unlikely that Tremec would redesign the tranny and pay the additional engineering for reduced output and hence reduced cost tranny. I do not know for certain, but the economics of it suggests prior T56 parts were subsituted in the new Magnum case to hold down costs.
The T56 Magnum in its standard form is rated upto 700 ft lbs of torque compared with 450 for the T56. Neither of the above motors requires a tranny to hold that much torque, so the Magnum is downgraded to approximately the torque of the prior T56 to save GM money.
Is this penny wise and dollar foolish? Time will tell. If new buyers become angry or frustrated if and when they start to have tranny problems with 100 HP aftermarket bolt on upgrades.
Also, the Magnum is a significant upgrade in that the case was beefed up as well and not just the inner gearing. It has lots of potential. But be careful when comparing the T6060 to the Magnum. It is like comparing apples to oranges.
I do not know for certain, but it seems that GM ordered the T56 Magnum from Tremec built with prior T56 parts. It is unlikely that Tremec would redesign the tranny and pay the additional engineering for reduced output and hence reduced cost tranny. I do not know for certain, but the economics of it suggests prior T56 parts were subsituted in the new Magnum case to hold down costs.
GM did work with Tremec to design the unit to work and fit using the GM supplied additional parts in the drivetrain. I have seen at least 2 Camaro mainshafts fail so far and have heard about several more. The Gt500 Magnum has its issues as well. The T56 Magnum is slightly packaged differently but over all the same unit from what I have seen and heard.
12-20-2009, 12:49 PM
#18
OK, I'll throw in my $0.02 since I have first hand experience of building both T56 and TR6060 transmissions.
If you plan on racing the car, go with the Viper spec T56. I have seen the insides of both transmissions and when you miss a shift on the TR6060, you WILL eat the engagement teeth along with the synchro ring. I had a 2009 C6 Z06 with less than 2,000 miles and the owner was drag racing (there were more tires on the inner wheel wells than on the actual tire) and missed a shift ONCE!!!!! Casual driving, the 2nd gear grinded. Upon disassembly and inspection, the engagement teeth were worn away along with the synchro ring.
I have compared the engagement teeth and synchros on both transmissions. What I found was the T56 has less teeth but they are bigger and more robust compared with TR6060.
I also noticed that the TR6060 gears are wider but the wider gears fit inside the trans case that is same size as T56 case. This is achieved by using a narrower synchro set up and using more engagement teeth to compensate for it.
The reason I would use a Viper spec T56 for racing is that the T56 is more forgiving on a missed shift. Yes the engagement teeth does get rounded off but it's not as bad as the TR6060.
If you plan on racing the car, go with the Viper spec T56. I have seen the insides of both transmissions and when you miss a shift on the TR6060, you WILL eat the engagement teeth along with the synchro ring. I had a 2009 C6 Z06 with less than 2,000 miles and the owner was drag racing (there were more tires on the inner wheel wells than on the actual tire) and missed a shift ONCE!!!!! Casual driving, the 2nd gear grinded. Upon disassembly and inspection, the engagement teeth were worn away along with the synchro ring.
I have compared the engagement teeth and synchros on both transmissions. What I found was the T56 has less teeth but they are bigger and more robust compared with TR6060.
I also noticed that the TR6060 gears are wider but the wider gears fit inside the trans case that is same size as T56 case. This is achieved by using a narrower synchro set up and using more engagement teeth to compensate for it.
The reason I would use a Viper spec T56 for racing is that the T56 is more forgiving on a missed shift. Yes the engagement teeth does get rounded off but it's not as bad as the TR6060.
I just had this done to my transmission and will soon be in the car to test out. I will get some more pictures of it and post it up, it will be just outside pics, not internal.
12-20-2009, 05:12 PM
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So would you say that getting your T56 converted to the 31 spline mainshaft, but all the other regular upgraded T56 components would be the best of both worlds?
I just had this done to my transmission and will soon be in the car to test out. I will get some more pictures of it and post it up, it will be just outside pics, not internal.
I just had this done to my transmission and will soon be in the car to test out. I will get some more pictures of it and post it up, it will be just outside pics, not internal.
On a side note, I know few people pushing more than 800R RWHP/RWTQ that distroyed the T56. On one, the input shaft gear (also 4th gear) and the cluster gear were sheared off. On the other, where the extension shaft meets the cluster gear were sheared off! Two of those people swapped to the C6 Z06 TR6060/C6 Z06 diff and have had very good results so far.
One last thing, the F body T56 has the 30 splined conversion with the modified Viper shaft but you can also upgrade the C5 T56 with the C6 Z06 30 splined shaft.
