Ceramic Coated Headers vs Stainless Steel Headers, also LPP questions!
07-03-2010, 12:45 AM
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Ceramic Coated Headers vs Stainless Steel Headers, also LPP questions! Question is in the title. Also, what sort of experience have people had with LPP stainless headers / ORY pipe?
Would you all suggest swapping in solid motor mounts while I have the exhaust off? Would it make installing LT headers easier due to the extra room and lift? My current MM's have 100k on them and are original equipment.
Would you all suggest swapping in solid motor mounts while I have the exhaust off? Would it make installing LT headers easier due to the extra room and lift? My current MM's have 100k on them and are original equipment.
07-03-2010, 03:19 AM
#2
Question is in the title. Also, what sort of experience have people had with LPP stainless headers / ORY pipe?
Would you all suggest swapping in solid motor mounts while I have the exhaust off? Would it make installing LT headers easier due to the extra room and lift? My current MM's have 100k on them and are original equipment.
Would you all suggest swapping in solid motor mounts while I have the exhaust off? Would it make installing LT headers easier due to the extra room and lift? My current MM's have 100k on them and are original equipment.
Stainless won't rust or really wear visually in any way. Besides the "blueing" that is normal...
Ceramic is a coating to protect the header and keep the heat inside helping with the scavenging effect. But depending on the manufacturer some coatings are definately better than others. I've found many coatings to not hold up to their claims.
Stainless is the best but usually WAY overpriced and not worth the difference in price of a good header that will perform the same. Ceramics are great if the quality is there...
I'd definatly swap out the motor mounts during the LT install...
07-03-2010, 02:07 PM
#4
i believe you can only do solid motor mounts with spohns k-member, iirc spohn is the only company that even makes solid motor mounts. and you get alot more vibration at an idle, some people dont like it, some do, and it doesnt bother some. it will most likely come down to what your willing to tollerate ( like anything else ). it also seems that any ceramic coating on a mild steel header lasts only as long as the header does i.e. the header starts to rust, the coating flakes off. but for sure get new motor mounts, poly or solid when you do a header swap. hope this helps
07-03-2010, 02:13 PM
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i have the LPP headers. they went in relatively easy, great prduct for the price.
mine do vibrate against the motor mount pedestal on the driver side, but that should be fixed by solid mounts...
mine do vibrate against the motor mount pedestal on the driver side, but that should be fixed by solid mounts...
07-03-2010, 02:40 PM
#6
i believe you can only do solid motor mounts with spohns k-member, iirc spohn is the only company that even makes solid motor mounts. and you get alot more vibration at an idle, some people dont like it, some do, and it doesnt bother some. it will most likely come down to what your willing to tollerate ( like anything else ). it also seems that any ceramic coating on a mild steel header lasts only as long as the header does i.e. the header starts to rust, the coating flakes off. but for sure get new motor mounts, poly or solid when you do a header swap. hope this helps
07-03-2010, 02:45 PM
#7
i believe you can only do solid motor mounts with spohns k-member, iirc spohn is the only company that even makes solid motor mounts. and you get alot more vibration at an idle, some people dont like it, some do, and it doesnt bother some. it will most likely come down to what your willing to tollerate ( like anything else ). it also seems that any ceramic coating on a mild steel header lasts only as long as the header does i.e. the header starts to rust, the coating flakes off. but for sure get new motor mounts, poly or solid when you do a header swap. hope this helps
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07-03-2010, 07:48 PM
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02-04-2011, 10:59 AM
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Ceramic Coated Headers
pros:cheaper than stainless,and arent prone to bluish discoloration,last longer than carbon steel headers,less heat conductance resulting in increased scavenging
cons:ceramic coating flakes over time and oxidation takes place
Stainless Steel Headers
pros:Last longer than ceramic coated headers,long term appearance,and more resistant to oxidation
cons:discoloration and high cost
pros:cheaper than stainless,and arent prone to bluish discoloration,last longer than carbon steel headers,less heat conductance resulting in increased scavenging
cons:ceramic coating flakes over time and oxidation takes place
Stainless Steel Headers
pros:Last longer than ceramic coated headers,long term appearance,and more resistant to oxidation
cons:discoloration and high cost
Last edited by lovescamaros28; 02-04-2011 at 11:12 AM.
02-05-2011, 01:52 AM
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I'd just do stainless, so you don't have to worry about them rusting and having to remove and install new ones eventually. Also, you can get a set of LPP headers for ~$150 more than pacesetters, which are crap
02-05-2011, 05:13 PM
#12
if you ever plan on having your hood up anywhere, you want stainless headers. performance isn't in question, as i believe there is no performance gain in a stainless header over a ceramic coated one...and the ceramic coated one will look like **** after a few thousand miles.
so basically your choices are stainless or black painted. if you just want the car to run and don't really care what they look like...spend 1/4 the money and get painted headers, find somewhere else to put the remaining $600. if you want a header that will never need replaced and always look good, buy stainless. my friend has painted headers on his daily driven, midwest car. 5 yrs+ and they perform great, but look like hell. they are pacesetters, btw. that car with a lid and those pacesetters went 12.8 @ 109 in an otherwise completely stock, 120k mile 01 a4 car.
my next set will be stainless, just not sure on what size or brand.
so basically your choices are stainless or black painted. if you just want the car to run and don't really care what they look like...spend 1/4 the money and get painted headers, find somewhere else to put the remaining $600. if you want a header that will never need replaced and always look good, buy stainless. my friend has painted headers on his daily driven, midwest car. 5 yrs+ and they perform great, but look like hell. they are pacesetters, btw. that car with a lid and those pacesetters went 12.8 @ 109 in an otherwise completely stock, 120k mile 01 a4 car.
my next set will be stainless, just not sure on what size or brand.
02-06-2011, 10:27 AM
#14
Not to hijack a thread, but is there header, stainless or otherwise which just slips in without any issues with the steering rack, etc.? Basically, which header is the easiest to install, with little or no modification?
02-06-2011, 11:56 AM
#15
Pacesetter headers here, ceramic coated. If I could do it over again I'd love to have the ~$390 bucks back so that I could apply them toward stainless headers. Mine have rusted to the point where I think they're leaking and polluting my O2 readings 
I'd look at the cheap ebay stainless headers before I got a set of good ceramic coated headers again
I'd look at the cheap ebay stainless headers before I got a set of good ceramic coated headers again
02-06-2011, 12:12 PM
#16
Solid mm for sure,ceramic coated is crap,my pacesetters had rust within a week,car is never in the rain or any bad weather,my buddy got some stainless ebay headers the same time I did mine,his still look great,mine not so great,honest I would have rather got painted,I don't feel the coating was worth the extra price,this is on pacesetters maybe other brands have a better coating
02-06-2011, 07:53 PM
#17
First headers were tpis coated. The coating was crap, started flaking off with 6 months then the headers started to leak so I order Kooks, found that the under hood temps were much higher then the coated headers so when I swapped motors I had the Kooks coated. This coating is much better and has stood up for a couple of years now
02-06-2011, 08:16 PM
#18
Man I bet that's a great combo, coated stainless!
Id love to get my hands on a set of the stainless edelbrock headers. They're stepped to 1 7/8 and have a 3.5" collector! That's huge!
If anyone is in the market for headers and you plan on keeping your car for a long time then you should invest in stainless headers. In old carb cars it didn't matter if they rusted out a little. In our cars it does. The tiniest leak anywhere up stream from your o2's or wideband is going to cause all sorts of problems. Your o2's will detect a lean condition and then you'll be running rich.
I'm not 100% sure that mine are leaking around where the primaries meet the collector, but they look rusty enough to be leaking. If they're not then I don't give them long before they are. I installed them in '06. If I had just dropped a little more coin on some stainless headers then this wouldn't be a problem. If you can't afford stainless headers now then id keep saving because its that important if you waant to drive your car a lot and keep it for a long time.
I have a friend whose had both kooks and the cheap ebay stainless headers. He said the kooks were made much better and were a lot thicker, but said that for the money the ebay's were a good bargain.
Id love to get my hands on a set of the stainless edelbrock headers. They're stepped to 1 7/8 and have a 3.5" collector! That's huge!
If anyone is in the market for headers and you plan on keeping your car for a long time then you should invest in stainless headers. In old carb cars it didn't matter if they rusted out a little. In our cars it does. The tiniest leak anywhere up stream from your o2's or wideband is going to cause all sorts of problems. Your o2's will detect a lean condition and then you'll be running rich.
I'm not 100% sure that mine are leaking around where the primaries meet the collector, but they look rusty enough to be leaking. If they're not then I don't give them long before they are. I installed them in '06. If I had just dropped a little more coin on some stainless headers then this wouldn't be a problem. If you can't afford stainless headers now then id keep saving because its that important if you waant to drive your car a lot and keep it for a long time.
I have a friend whose had both kooks and the cheap ebay stainless headers. He said the kooks were made much better and were a lot thicker, but said that for the money the ebay's were a good bargain.
