Rare96LT1Formula

iTrader: (32)

Took my newly purchased 2000 WS6 into my mechanic for the first time a few days ago. Everything looked good with the exception of a rusted fuel filter and drivers side rear axle seal. The fluids all looked new/recently changed, and plugs/wires looked recently done also. While bullshitting with him for a bit, the topic of seafoam/internal engine cleaner came up. It seems like everyone has their own take on this topic. He had told me that he absolutely loves GM's Top Engine Cleaner. He has said that it's pretty expensive, and sometimes difficult to find but that it works the best. My car has 110K miles, and I'm really not sure weather the car was driven year round or parked during the winter (Chicago). I read through the Seafoam sticky, which provided some excellent information. However, I'd prefer to go with the GM TEC if possible. I found it at my local Chevy dealer for $16 a can. The parts department guy I spoke with said 1 bottle would last 8 treatments, which is something I wasn't aware of...and not sure if that is true. I'm going to run an engine cleaner through it for sure, and after that I'll get my plugs/fuel filter replaced and oil changed. Has anyone ever used this GM product before on their LS1? How did it respond? How do you feel it compares with Seafoam and other name brand internal engine cleaners?

Also, I did read the sticky on Seafoam. It was very informative and well written, but I wanted some input on how other cleaners compared and what everyone thought of them.

O2Form

I've used all of them and honestly the best one i've found is Chevron Techron. The Gm top engine cleaner was made for drastic cleaning of engines driven by slow drivers that never get the engines revved up high enough to clear carbon deposits. BE SURE to change your engine oil if you use the gm top engine cleaner as some will get past the rings and get into the engine oil.

DOESN"T matter what ANYONE EVER tells you DON"T PUT SEAFOAM or GM top engine in the crankcase with engine oil! Unless you like spending large amounts of money.

Rare96LT1Formula

iTrader: (32)

Does this Chevron Techron really compare to a GM TEC/Seafoam product? I've never heard of it before.

And I know alot of people would argue to not add ANYTHING to their crankcase besides clean oil, and I understand that argument. However, isn't Seafoam 100% petroleum based?

I also probably should've mentioned I purchased a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil to add to my GASOLINE ONLY (Always Shell V-Power). I haven't added any yet, but I plan to start adding it to every fill up (Gas quality sucks these days imo)

O2Form

Alot opf things are petrolem based but you wouldn't put them in your engine oil. The techron is the best i've ever tried and i've been doing this a very long time. You can buy it just about any place even Walmart. It cleans everything AND the GM dealers use and sell it in a 20oz can. They market it as a complete fuel system cleaner but it will clean the cylinders too, I use it ever 3k miles. I also like Lucas Fuel treatment, works very well too. The best is the Techron though........GM uses and sells it for good reason.

The top engine cleaner you are discussing was made for quick fixing cars that come into the dealer that are barely driven and carboned up badkly. TRUST me NO TA or Corvette has that problem, people just go mad over the WOW factor. OOWW I top cleaned my engine now its got 100 more ponys....................

and if you don't change your engine oil afterwards you just made more trouble.

O2Form

I'm gonna tell you best top engine cleaner you could possibly use and its gonna sound crazy but its true. its plain old WATER....yep that right....it will steam clean the cylinders like nothing else.

BUT YOU BETTER KNOW HOW TO USE IT OR YOU WILL CAUSE engine failure.

O2Form

The techron is a every 3k treatment, the Lucas fuel system treatment is a every tank treatment....the TOP ENGINE cleaner is only for drastic cleaning of cars that are driven slow. Personally i've tore down plenty of engines........I had a customer who used the Gm top engine cleaner every 3k miles. His engine started using oil and was low on power by 80k miles. We tore it down and the ALL the cy;linders had excceive wear. Like i said the GM top engine cleaner are for drastic cleaning ans strip all the lubrication off etc. I WOULDN'T USE THEM IN MY CARS!

O2Form

I've been told by ALOT of other mechanics that BG 44K is best thing you will ever use and cleans everything. But i've never gotten a chance to try it. http://www.bgfindashop.com/44K.htm?g...FQY65Qodu3WUdw

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

If you put SeaFoam into the top end through the brake booster line....just keep your money in your pocket and don't do it...and say you did. SeaFoam is complete bullshit for cleaning the top end. Messing with the brake booster line and pouring liquid into your engine is plain STUPID. PERIOD on that subject.

What you want for the top end is MCCC (Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner). The GM stuff is great to...so you choose. Pics below on how easy it is to put the MCCC in to the top end.

As far as cleaning the crankcase...go to the parts store and buy GUNK engine flush. Its the best product out there. Pour it in and let it idle ONLY for 5 minutes, then dump the oil. Then pour 4 qrts of cheap oil in there and let it idle for 5 minutes. That will get all the flush chemical out. Then fill with your choice of oil and change the filter.

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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Thats stuff is all over this area. $22.00 a bottle though. I just pour a full can of SeaFoam into a 1/4 tank of gas every 4 months or so.

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derck_mullin

iTrader: (1)

Just curious...is there any substantiated proof any of this stuff works? Seems like nowadays the gas is pretty good and the syn oil is pretty clean...

Rare96LT1Formula

iTrader: (32)

Thats a good question. It seems like everybody swears by one product or another. I agree with oil quality being solid, but gas quality is **** now

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

It has nothing to with the gas....it has to do with thousands and thousands of miles of having oil going through the intake and into the engine via the PCV system.

The dumbest, most ridiculous system ever designed was having a PCV system sucking oil into an engine. How stupid. Only air is supposed to go through there. So..its oil that is causing all of the build up, not gasoline. Look at the pictures below of the pistons, that is MY pistons after I had all of my valve seals go bad. It was like that for about 4 months till I realized what to fix, I need my heads rebuilt after 5 years. That is nothing but burnt oil on my pistons FROM OIL getting through to them. It was causing massive hot spots, which caused massive detonation at all rpm levels. This is what happens over thousands and thousands of miles to allot of engines via bad or failing PCV systems. Not all, but allot. Some PCV systems allow more oil to get through than others do. Someone needs to design a simple vacuum pump that sucks vacuum from the crankcase and sends the oil mist to the headers so it can be burned pre converter.

Or just take the damn systems off.........they suck. I had mine off for a 6 month period and there was absolutely ZERO change in anything. oil was exactly the same. ZERO water in the oil...nothing, it was unaffected in every way.

BUT.....yes the MCCC works like a charm. I did 3 SeaFoams in one week...I'm talking full cans each time to clean my 130,000 mile 427ci. I figured it had to have some build ups in there. Then I realized how stupid it was to put a heavy liquid into my top end. It cannot work. It can only possibly get into the back two cylinders via the back two intake runners....no way in hell can it go against incoming air and reach all the way to the front of the intake and all the other runners. So if anything, SeaFoam can only do any amount of cleaning to those two runners, cylinders and pistons. Its heavy liquid, that stuff will get blown right through the engine. Then when you start it up after 2 hours, the SeaFoam puddles that are in the intake is what the smoke is from. It will make a smoke show till its all burned up.

MCCC is a FOAM...unlike SeaFoam....lol
MCCC goes into the vacuum line and starts expanding, its a FOAM. It won't expand if you just spray into a cup or something. I assume the heat makes it expand. Because I did it and had it coming out through the TB blade. But I do it correctly. You must let the engine get to operating temp, then let it idle only, then spray the bottle into that vacuum line. You need another person there with you to turn the engine OFF just BEFORE the can runs out. This will keep the foam in the top end as much as possible. If you try to run over and turn it off yourself, that foam is long gone from getting sucked right out of the engine and through the exhaust pipes. Best to have the engine turned off while you are still spraying it into the vacuum line. Then you can stop spraying after the engine has stopped turning.

Do yourselves a favor and use products that are designed for the job you want to have done. SeaFoam is great for cleaning the entire fuel system.....thats all. Some like to run it in their crankcase for a few minutes before an oil change, I see nothing wrong with that as long as you don;t rev it or drive it with it in there. Any type of thin water-like liquid in the oil is terrible for the bearings if you rev it or drive..... Then get all of it out before adding the new oil.

But do your own research, I'm just a guy with a 153,000 miles on my fully built 427ci and its running like a charm still.............I use SeaFoam in my fuel system every 4 months. And I used MCCC twice in the past 2 years for my top end..

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TurdsOfMayhem

iTrader: (4)

I'd listen to LS6427. Good guy, always looking to help people out.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Don't listen to the hype. All of these products are the same. As LS6427 points out, the delivery method/system makes all the difference. Putting this stuff in your gas tank is like putting mouthwash up your *** - it will clean things out but there is lots of unintended consequences. (like having to change your fuel filter)

The chemicals are all essentially the same thing -> Naptha (a really good solvent) mixed with other (in some cases, exotic) hydrocarbon-based solvents.

I've used the Motorvac treatment (Snap-On uses the same system) before and have had great results with it. I'd say the Motorvac and MCCC are the best options because they really go to work on the top end and don't flush through quickly. Motorvac/Snap-On requires a special machine, which is much more expensive - thus I will probably go with MCCC for my next treatment if I'm in a position to do it myself.


You can look at the ingredients from the various MSDS sheets for details on the chemicals: (Except if you live in California - better that you not know what is in here so the state government doesn't ask too many questions...)

MOPAR:
Mineral Sprits
Isopropyl Alcohol
Naptha
Ethyl Benzene

GM:
2-Butoxyethanol
Naptha
4-methyl-2-pentanol (aka:methyl isobutyl carbinol)
9-octadecendic acid

Seafoam:
Naptha
Isopropyl Alcohol

Motorvac Carbon Clean:
Naptha
1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene
2-Butoxyethanol
(Mystery ingredient withheld as a trade secret)

elwood2

iTrader: (5)

Where can you get MCCC? I read in a few places that it was discontinued. There doesn't seem to be any online either.

Rare96LT1Formula

iTrader: (32)

I called my local GM/Chrysler dealer and they have it on the shelf ready to go at the parts counter. I'm going to pick myself up a can in an hour or so. $8 and change after tax.


LS6427- I'm making a home depot run today anyways and was going to grab some rubber hose like you have pictured in your photo. 3/8" ? And can I connect the the hose to throttle body instead of the pcv?

NC01TA

Very effective! Pricey at nearly $20 but it works. My GM dealership warned me about the product getting on the paint when pouring it in so be careful. Apparently this stuff is recommended by many as even my Porsche mechanic suggested it for my 993, and it really did the job. It is quite strong so I don't use it too often, just once in awhile. I use Techron about every 3,000 miles or the 'mid-year' point just for general 'clean-up'. No issues but not as strong as the BG44.

mac62989

iTrader: (1)

Where can you find BG44?

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

They do. My friend works at a Dodge dealership, he brought me a can last week.

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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

I get mine at Advance Auto. 3/8" heater hose.

No....you need to connect the hose to the vacuum port on the bottom passengers side of the intake. The TB port does not suck in vacuum, that port blows air out at WOT.

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