superchargers
07-25-2012, 08:46 AM
#1
Staging Lane
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superchargers i recently asked the question of reliability between turbos vs. superchargers. the general consensus was that neither option is viable for a daily driver if your concerned about reliability. Which leads me to assume that the aftermarket is not capable of manufacturing such products? I have a friend with a Shelby GT500 (factory supercharged , another with a Ford Lightning (also factory supercharged) that have bumper to bumper warranties and both have over 50K miles on odometer with no issues of reliability so far. I know GM has the Caddy and ZR-1 with factory superchargers so what's the deal?
07-25-2012, 08:56 AM
#2
The deal is that those cars cost twice what these cars are new. If you want to spend the money you can easily do a supercharger or turbo and it be reliable.
As the old saying goes.
Cheap, fast, reliable...pick two.
I think the consensus was that neither was a viable option if you want it to be reliable AND on a small budget.
It would take a decent amount of time to explain why factory supercharged cars like the ones you mentioned can have a warranty, but it basically boils down to the fact that they cost more....due to the fact that they build them to handle the extra strain that forced induction places on the drivetrain.
Cars are typically built to handle what they were built with. ie. our cars make 300rwhp from the factory...they were built to handle that reliably. So when you add power and it's now at 450-500 it's not anywhere near as reliable. Which is why people upgrade transmission, rear end, fuel system....list goes on. This in turn makes it more reliable, but costs a lot of money.
As the old saying goes.
Cheap, fast, reliable...pick two.
I think the consensus was that neither was a viable option if you want it to be reliable AND on a small budget.
It would take a decent amount of time to explain why factory supercharged cars like the ones you mentioned can have a warranty, but it basically boils down to the fact that they cost more....due to the fact that they build them to handle the extra strain that forced induction places on the drivetrain.
Cars are typically built to handle what they were built with. ie. our cars make 300rwhp from the factory...they were built to handle that reliably. So when you add power and it's now at 450-500 it's not anywhere near as reliable. Which is why people upgrade transmission, rear end, fuel system....list goes on. This in turn makes it more reliable, but costs a lot of money.
Last edited by 777; 07-25-2012 at 09:01 AM.
07-25-2012, 09:00 AM
#3
If you want it to be cheap and fast it won't be reliable
If you want it to be cheap and reliable it won't be fast
Which is why nitrous is also another good option since you won't be going WOT everytime and you can still daily drive it.
07-25-2012, 09:17 AM
#4
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i recently asked the question of reliability between turbos vs. superchargers. the general consensus was that neither option is viable for a daily driver if your concerned about reliability. Which leads me to assume that the aftermarket is not capable of manufacturing such products?
The deal is that those cars cost twice what these cars are new. If you want to spend the money you can easily do a supercharger or turbo and it be reliable.
As the old saying goes.
Cheap, fast, reliable...pick two.
I think the consensus was that neither was a viable option if you want it to be reliable AND on a small budget.
As the old saying goes.
Cheap, fast, reliable...pick two.
I think the consensus was that neither was a viable option if you want it to be reliable AND on a small budget.
07-25-2012, 10:40 AM
#5
TECH Fanatic
You could add a Procharger kit, along with bigger injectors and fuel pump, and keep the boost down to 6-7lbs and as far as the motor goes it would be reliable as long as your tune is good. But then you'd still need to spend somewhere around $7000 on the rest of your drivetrain for it to be able to reliably put the power to the ground. The same goes for any other setup that can put over 450hp to the wheels, so whether you go with FI, N2O, or H/C/I your going to need to spend that money on your trans and rear end. If you serious about making big power and being reliable I'd say do all of your bolt on's, suspension modes, build up your drive train, and then slap on what ever you choose to make the big power.
07-25-2012, 10:58 AM
#6
Staging Lane
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ok , I'm beginning to understand, the car already has bolt ons , 12 bolt Moser, borla exhaust with headers , built tranny with a 3200 stall ,shift kit, etc.. let me clarify a little on the daily driver aspect, it's not my only vehicle , just my favorite. I also have a ZX-10R ninja for sunny days and a Jeep renegade for rainy ones. How much would I be looking to spend on a reliable supercharger/turbo? NOS is also consideration...
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07-25-2012, 01:52 PM
#9
I've always wanted an STS rear mount turbo kit. You can find them lightly used for a decent price. A guy in our GM car club had one on his car, it looked nice and performed well.
I'd just run the lowest 5lb boost setting that doesn't require an intercooler and adds a decent 100ish rwhp and doesn't require a new fuel pump, just bigger 44lbs injectors and a good dyno tune. Or if you want 150ish rwhp instead of only 100rwhp you can upgrade the fuel pump as well and add their front mount intercooler.
That's just my personal choice, I know there are a bunch of turbo kits out there to choose from.
I see the kits pop up for around $2500 in the classified everyonce and a while.
I'd just run the lowest 5lb boost setting that doesn't require an intercooler and adds a decent 100ish rwhp and doesn't require a new fuel pump, just bigger 44lbs injectors and a good dyno tune. Or if you want 150ish rwhp instead of only 100rwhp you can upgrade the fuel pump as well and add their front mount intercooler.
That's just my personal choice, I know there are a bunch of turbo kits out there to choose from.
I see the kits pop up for around $2500 in the classified everyonce and a while.
Last edited by TheBlueKnight; 07-25-2012 at 01:58 PM.
07-25-2012, 08:01 PM
#10
hell no man hed be spending more than that. dont forget forged internals for one thing and all the little stuff that always ads up.
Now if he wanted to run 10+ psi then yes that number would grow quickly with the need for forged internals.
Besides that, a used supercharger can be had for say 4k, then 1k for fuel and the rest in drivetrain upgrades.
07-25-2012, 09:01 PM
#11
I can attest to some of what has been said. I wanted something reliable and FI was the way I wanted to go vs n20. It is very possible to make it reliable, as long as your not hurting in the finance dept.
My procharger kit was 7k.
I blew the ls1 up and cracked the block
bought a new motor ( over 9k) fully forged heads and pumps, valley cover etc etc..
the stock trans has to be swapped to a 4l80e (which most people under 800rwhp can go with a 4l60e if they get the 4400 dollar one) the 4l80e swap level 5 with circle d running about 6k or more.
the suspension and rear end are around 5-6k
fueling for it has ended up around 2700 after having to do two systems after I decided on making more power
youll want to have gauges and methanol. 02 wideband, fuel pressure, boost.
a good bracket setup to keep belts from walking or stretching
youll need a damn good tune.
so yeah, by the time I am done, should not have any issues at all.
as far as the turbo guys......if they do cheap setups, they generally have alot of issues to work out. its alot more involved, and although the power and tq curve is nice and fun, it does not justify the loss in reliablity going with a blower unless you .....yet again....can afford to build it reliably. forced induction is by far the most expensive means of modding your car.
My procharger kit was 7k.
I blew the ls1 up and cracked the block
bought a new motor ( over 9k) fully forged heads and pumps, valley cover etc etc..
the stock trans has to be swapped to a 4l80e (which most people under 800rwhp can go with a 4l60e if they get the 4400 dollar one) the 4l80e swap level 5 with circle d running about 6k or more.
the suspension and rear end are around 5-6k
fueling for it has ended up around 2700 after having to do two systems after I decided on making more power
youll want to have gauges and methanol. 02 wideband, fuel pressure, boost.
a good bracket setup to keep belts from walking or stretching
youll need a damn good tune.
so yeah, by the time I am done, should not have any issues at all.
as far as the turbo guys......if they do cheap setups, they generally have alot of issues to work out. its alot more involved, and although the power and tq curve is nice and fun, it does not justify the loss in reliablity going with a blower unless you .....yet again....can afford to build it reliably. forced induction is by far the most expensive means of modding your car.
07-25-2012, 11:09 PM
#13
The Question i have is: say he slaps a D-1sc kit on there and only runs 8lbs, ya he'll be reliable and fast but will the a/c still work good in the heat of the summer? I hear stories of how procharged cars are always overheating and their a/c's going to **** after the install, how are all of you'all's a/c still working after you've gone FI?
Last edited by Snake_Skinner; 07-26-2012 at 11:03 PM. Reason: grammar
07-26-2012, 10:08 AM
#15
Staging Lane
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thanx for all the info! and I'd definitely need the AC! I live in south La. where we stay in triple digits with 100% humidity in the summer , so no ac is not an option!
07-31-2012, 10:36 AM
#16
i was around 400rwhp and then I put it on. Made 200+rwhp with almost 10lbs (if you wanna consider that low) , and that was at 5800 rpm. we were going to pull to 6700 but ran out of pump, so dialed it back to 5800 until I got the booster in, but never made it that far. so i decided why not go ahead and add 400 more on this new block on top of that. Imagine, I could have gone all the way down to a 3.4 pulley. I am thinking it would have made mid 7xx
tune when she blew
17 degrees of timing
11.5-11.7 afr
methanol
tr6's at 0.032
241's (stock head bolts)
texas speed 228r
bolt ons
3:73 motives
4.13 pulley on a d1.
as far as my a/c it was fine, but i got rid of it to clean up the engine bay, and lose the weight added by the iron block i have now. it worked fine before though. and I live in alabama. its humid and hot here too. I just never ride until its night anyways. the d1sc on the higher boost range will create a good bit of heat especially on a larger cube motor due to how hard it has to work to move that amount of air. thats is why myself and alot of people prefer a moderate boost level on an f1-? vs max on a d1sc. good luck with the supercharging.
Last edited by I8UR4RD; 07-31-2012 at 10:46 AM.
08-01-2012, 05:57 PM
#19
yeah ive had a ton of people getting their panties in a bunch over me not letting them have the parts I sell for nothing. Even got offered some food stamps. What a world.
One guy I have talked with so far, thought he was getting
big red bypass
aster bracket
fuel system
head unit
ATI FMIC
Alkycontrol
Piping
Belt
Damper
Blower Pulley
Crank Pinning Tool
...and basically the whole kit for less than 2k. I asked him if he really thought id do that, and he got so pissed. It was amazing really.
