JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

So, I've had this problem for a while, but I just ignored it (as much as I can), because I'm about to do a full top-end rebuild on the car and don't want to rip into it just yet.

But the problem is, I just can't stand it anymore! Car is all stock right now with a Power Bastards Alternator. Engine has 144k miles on it.

When I put the alternator on, it chirped a little, so I got a 1" shorter belt, and it didn't chirp. Everything was fine. Then one day it decided to start chirping like crazy. It hasn't stopped since then. I put the old belt back on, since it actually seemed to help (won't chirp when warm at idle with the factory length belt).

I put a new tensioner as well, thinking maybe there was still belt slip. Nada.

I've tried to chase down the sound, but it's so incredibly loud and overwhelming, I can't tell where it's coming from. I took the accessory serpentine off and it goes away. So I know it's no the A/C.

So here are the symptons:

When the car is cold, it squeals at every RPM. Horribly loud. It gets worse as RPMs climb.

Once it's warmed up fully the sound sort of goes away below 1500 RPM. Sort of - not always, but usually if I do a good bit of driving - say more than 20 mins worth. At which point there is barely any noticeable chirp at idle. But it always climbs with RPM.

What is this? How can I tell where the hell the sound is coming from? It's so loud you can hear it inside the car OVER the stereo. So trying to find it with the hood open is a nightmare.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Here is a short video of it.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

So you eliminated the A/C belt system as a culprit, and have changed the main belt tensioner, as well as trying two new belts (of stock and shorter sizes) with no luck so far.

Then my question to you is, have you tried changing the main idler pulley yet? This is often a common cause of these noises. Usually the idler and tensioner pullies are the most likely reasons, but you already replaced the whole tensioner, so I would do the idler next.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Well, I just sprayed water on the V-groove side and the sound went away instantly. Which tells me there is an alignment problem. Which is not what I wanted to hear, because the only change is the Alternator.

I know that whole alternator bracket is a bitch to get in, but how can it be misaligned if all the bolts lined up? Could it be the OD pulley that Power Bastards supplies? Should I try that? Or maybe get back under the car and loosen the whole bracket and see if I can reinstall?

If it's not that, would spraying water on it make a difference if the main idler pulley is going out?

mikey67

I had the same noises a few years ago. I carefully popped the seals off the idler and tensioner pulleys and repacked the bearings with grease and reinstalled the seals. I found the bearings to be totally dry. I've had zero 'belt' related noise since. Easy remedy. ...and if it solves your noise, you haven't thrown parts or $ at it!

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

That's what I thought too. Until I sprayed with water. If the bearings are bad, a lubricated belt shouldn't make any difference?

Unless the bearings are causing a wobble.

But because I changed the Alternator, that makes me think it's misaligned. Ugh.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

So I don't know where the sound is coming from. It's definitely related to alignment, but I don't know if it's because the alternator or the OD pulley on the Power Bastards is to blame (and can't get it off while it on the car - and am not pulling the alt to try and fight the pulley only to find it's not the problem). Or if it's angular alignment - meaning a bearing has gone and is causing a wobble.

The main idler pulley seems like a plausible one. Anyone know how to get it off? I took the bolt out and it's still on the alt bracket.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Am I stupid? I took the 15mm bolt off on the idler pulley. Son of a bitch won't come off. Nothing I've seen says it is supposed to be hard to get off.

Am I not pulling the right pulley? The one on the alternator bracket? What's the trick to getting it off? And if it's supposed to come right off easily, is this where my horrendous noise is coming from?

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Well, I sprayed it with WD-40 and yanked on that bastard. Finally it came free. It was rusted to the alt bracket.

Here is a pic of the bearings. They look horrible.



Here is the Dayco I got from Autozone.



Turns out it's way smaller than the factory piece and thinner too. The belt partially hangs off and the belt can be slid over the tensioner without moving it. Needless to say, I'm returning it and trying for a different one. If I still had my 78" Gates belt, I might be inclined to run it with that. But the 79" is way too long. And the Gates belt was worse than the Dayco on there.



I have a 77.5" Gatorback waiting to go on with the ATI Superdamper, so I don't want to mess with it too much, since ATI recommended that length. Otherwise, I'll have to return it and get a 76.5. Plus buy another belt in the interim. No.

One good piece of news. The squeals seems to be gone with the new Idler pulley. I just need to return this one and try a different PN. The PN Autozone's computer listed was 231135. This looks to be the A/C idler.

Looks like I need GM 12563326 or Gates 38041. O'Reilly's has the Gates for 48. Amazon has the AC Delco for 35 and the Gates for 25. Hmm. Get it done over the weekend or wait until Tuesday when Amazon ships it to me?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like you are on the right track. GM #12563326 is the correct number for your car. I have not tried the Gates version, but the GM replacement exactly matches the original.

What you have on there now is definitely not correct.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

So here's my question. I have an 02 and would assume I have the new idler bracket. But if someone replaced it with an older part, then well, all assumptions go out the window.

I picked up the Gates 38041 from NAPA today and it hits the back of the bracket. Classic old pulley new bracket problem.

Attached is a picture of the old pulley and the new Gates. Obviously, the offset is different. It looks like the Gates has a deeper offset - perhaps the 8mm as described elsewhere for the old style. The box had 38041 crossed out then another PN 38008 and then that was marked out and then 38041 was put back. Is it possible I just got the wrong idler?

I may go back and ask for both Gates PNs (old and new) and see which one matches the OEM I took off. But if they don't have any more, I'd really only like to order one online.

Any help?

Here is a pic.

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

Another reason to stick with GM/ACDelco -- none of this mess! I'm glad the idler seems to be taking care of the issue... if only you could get the correct idler!

My take -- just order the stuff from Amazon and wait a couple days. That's better than running back and forth to parts stores with the wrong stuff when you could have ordered the correct thing in the first place

LS79CAMARO

iTrader: (7)

Or you can just replace the bearing in the pulley if you cant wait for the online parts to be shipped and they don't have the pulley locally. Looks like a 203 bearing. The 203 bearing is in a lot of idler and tensioner pulleys

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

With a 2002, you would most certainly have the new style bracket and thus need the new pulley (GM #12563326). The bracket was changed during the 2000 model year, so there is no chance that yours would have come stock with the old bracket, and I can't imagine that anyone would have installed an old bracket on yours (unless at some point your entire engine was replaced with a long block drop-in from an older model year or something).

I have no experience with the Gates pullies so I don't know which part number is correct for that brand, but I've heard other's mention that most of what the chain parts retailers keep in stock are the older style pullies.

GM #12563326 is correct for the new bracket ('00-'02).

GM #12564401 is correct for the old bracket ('98-00).

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, I'm impatient. I went to O'Reilly and got the correct part. The one from NAPA was in the wrong box and they were out of stock. But Gates 38041 is correct.

So the new idler is on. And the sound is still there. With the smaller A/C pulley, there wasn't any sort of load on the belt, so it didn't make a peep. With the correct pulley - yeah, still sounding horrid.

I guess I'm ripping the shiny new Power Bastards alternator out. Only original pulleys left are PS and WP. I have a new LS2 WP ready to go in, but at this point, I'm just throwing money at something, and I have no idea what the problem is.

dailydriver

You do have to take care not to over-grease these bearings when you repack them though, since you don't want that **** on your belts and pulley contact surfaces (it gets flung ALL over the place, ask me how I know ).

What do you use for repacking?? I use the Red Line red wheel bearing grease on mine.

Are these 203 bearings even available made here, or China ONLY??

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

The old bearing wasn't causing the noise. It certainly would have eventually. It was a dried out mess.

I think the Alt alignment is off. I guess I'll get it back up in the air and rip that **** out and try the old alternator again.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Well replaced the Power Bastards with the stock alt. the squeal is much better. More of a constant chirp vs the banshee raping a chalkboard sound before. That leaves the balancer, wp, and ps pump. My cousin and I were listening to the bearings with a long pole cupped to our ear. All sounded decent. Water still quiets the chirp, so there's a bearing going bad somewhere. Ugh.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

I was constantly getting belt squeal. A new belt would fix it briefly, but they it would come back in full force. Since I went to the ATI and a gatorback belt, I have never heard a peep again.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

That's good to know. I'll probably leave it alone for the time being. It's bearable now. Before, it was so loud, it'd overpower the stereo and give me a headache. Now, it is barely there. My sister has a 99 T/A and she replaced everything and it still chirps.

I think the design of the accessory belt wrapping leaves a lot to be desired.