PPG sequential gear box conversion for T56!
10-22-2013, 11:11 AM
#1
PPG sequential gear box conversion for T56! PPG is a well known Australian manufacturer and makes aftermarket race quality gear sets/internals for a multitude of transmissions and racing manufacturers (ProDrive, Skyline GTR, Australian Supercar series, European AWD rally cars, Gallardo parts etc). Everyone knows a sequential transmission shaves seconds off of lap times, provides repeatable fast shifting, and being a dog box more or less has the potential for lower internal carnage due to better designed heavy duty components (no more synchros).
PPG has released a sequential gearbox setup based off the production T56/TR6060 cases which has been around for some time but they had them mainly for Corvettes which were in the mid $20K range.... they now offer them for the standard in-line style transmissions that are placed right behind the engine just like in the FBody/GTO and 99% of the LSx engine swaps out there. They can also be put behind any engine that will accept a T56 style transmission (ie rotary, Ford, Mopar etc). It is designed to use your existing clutch/flywheel and driveshaft/transmission mounts, saving on unnecessary additional expenses typically associated with a high end transmission offering.
The basics are this. A production T56/TR6060/T56 Magnum bare midplate/case/tailhousing is used and a PPG reseller provides the built transmission with PPG internals. Rated at 1000hp+ with current ratios of 2.437 / 1.611 / 1.228 / 1.000 / 0.875 / 0.777. Other gear ratios will be available once demand calls for it. While certainly not for everyone they offer durability, lightning fast shifting, no missed shifts, full throttle upshift and auto blip of the downshifts (using DBW throttlebodies). You start out by using the clutch to get things going and then it goes sequential style. The gears are billet heat treated Helical cut which is a 12* angle and doesn't whine as bad as straight cut gear sets. Also takes less engagement effort. The PPG rep I spoke with mentioned they had no failures to date running T56 style setups in under 1000hp applications. These gear sets are also used in 7 second turbo Vipers.
Overview from their website:
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/files/53...Newsletter.pdf
I hope to try to test one out in my car here in the future. The MSRP target price is $16-16.5K USD for the internals, sequential shifter, and other related items. This does not include assembly and the BH/mid plate/case/tailhousing. It certainly costs more than a production transmission... but then again when lap times count or those last tenths at the strip are sought after... this is another key component to get consistency and put the pieces of the puzzle together with having a fast car. It is fully streetable and definitely designed with track use in mind.
Currently it is setup with a stick that is pulled (upshift) or pushed (downshift) and next year a paddle shifter setup will be available.
On a side note:
EMCO sequential transmissions are $25K+ and are problematic with breakage issues. Plus 50% more expensive. 600hp or so seems to be the reliable limit.
Quaiffe offers a sequential gear box with limited support and weak components. Don't hear of many behind V8's being reliable.
Hollinger costs more than the EMCO.... Closer to $30K.
This isn't for everyone... but it at least something to learn about as another option for the higher end builds.
I'll report more when I have more info. Man would I love one in my LS7 RX-7. I could shave probably 1-2 tenths of a second per shift which on tracks around me would amount to a couple seconds.
Teaser video:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v..._t=video_reply
PPG has released a sequential gearbox setup based off the production T56/TR6060 cases which has been around for some time but they had them mainly for Corvettes which were in the mid $20K range.... they now offer them for the standard in-line style transmissions that are placed right behind the engine just like in the FBody/GTO and 99% of the LSx engine swaps out there. They can also be put behind any engine that will accept a T56 style transmission (ie rotary, Ford, Mopar etc). It is designed to use your existing clutch/flywheel and driveshaft/transmission mounts, saving on unnecessary additional expenses typically associated with a high end transmission offering.
The basics are this. A production T56/TR6060/T56 Magnum bare midplate/case/tailhousing is used and a PPG reseller provides the built transmission with PPG internals. Rated at 1000hp+ with current ratios of 2.437 / 1.611 / 1.228 / 1.000 / 0.875 / 0.777. Other gear ratios will be available once demand calls for it. While certainly not for everyone they offer durability, lightning fast shifting, no missed shifts, full throttle upshift and auto blip of the downshifts (using DBW throttlebodies). You start out by using the clutch to get things going and then it goes sequential style. The gears are billet heat treated Helical cut which is a 12* angle and doesn't whine as bad as straight cut gear sets. Also takes less engagement effort. The PPG rep I spoke with mentioned they had no failures to date running T56 style setups in under 1000hp applications. These gear sets are also used in 7 second turbo Vipers.
Overview from their website:
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/files/53...Newsletter.pdf
I hope to try to test one out in my car here in the future. The MSRP target price is $16-16.5K USD for the internals, sequential shifter, and other related items. This does not include assembly and the BH/mid plate/case/tailhousing. It certainly costs more than a production transmission... but then again when lap times count or those last tenths at the strip are sought after... this is another key component to get consistency and put the pieces of the puzzle together with having a fast car. It is fully streetable and definitely designed with track use in mind.
Currently it is setup with a stick that is pulled (upshift) or pushed (downshift) and next year a paddle shifter setup will be available.
On a side note:
EMCO sequential transmissions are $25K+ and are problematic with breakage issues. Plus 50% more expensive. 600hp or so seems to be the reliable limit.
Quaiffe offers a sequential gear box with limited support and weak components. Don't hear of many behind V8's being reliable.
Hollinger costs more than the EMCO.... Closer to $30K.
This isn't for everyone... but it at least something to learn about as another option for the higher end builds.
I'll report more when I have more info. Man would I love one in my LS7 RX-7. I could shave probably 1-2 tenths of a second per shift which on tracks around me would amount to a couple seconds.
Teaser video:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v..._t=video_reply
Last edited by gnx7; 10-23-2013 at 11:01 AM.
10-25-2013, 01:53 AM
#3
You forgot about Weismann. What is your opinion on their units? They said they can make 6-7 or 8 speed sequentials. How do they stack up against the others in terms of strength ect and price.
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01-22-2015, 04:53 AM
#8
9 Second Club
I'd have little concern the PPG stuff is strong and reliable. And it's handy that it retains the T56 platform.
But the problem with it, and most other even bespoke sequential boxes...is choice of ratios.
Even the PPG is restricted to a 0.77 top gear. Far from ideal from a top speed perspective as that's shorter than even the normal T56 5th gear.
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp?productid=137
Vipers arent so bad I guess if they can rev along with their 3.08 diff.
But for most others even for 1/2 mile work, it would be pushing top speed ability
But the problem with it, and most other even bespoke sequential boxes...is choice of ratios.
Even the PPG is restricted to a 0.77 top gear. Far from ideal from a top speed perspective as that's shorter than even the normal T56 5th gear.
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp?productid=137
Vipers arent so bad I guess if they can rev along with their 3.08 diff.
But for most others even for 1/2 mile work, it would be pushing top speed ability
01-22-2015, 03:50 PM
#9
See, the one thing I hate about the T56 is 6th gear. It's so tall, not good for anything but highway mileage. Also, the RPM drop from 4th to 5th really kills speed in a lower powered car. In my application, for road course use, I have to gear the car to top out in 4th. Having tighter ratios would allow me to gear the car lower, improving acceleration while being able to use 5th and 6th. Everyone's needs are different though.
Are there any builders in the US that put together boxes with PPG gear sets? Don't need all the fancy sequential stuff, but I would love one of their gear sets in my car.
Are there any builders in the US that put together boxes with PPG gear sets? Don't need all the fancy sequential stuff, but I would love one of their gear sets in my car.
01-23-2015, 04:36 AM
#10
9 Second Club
See, the one thing I hate about the T56 is 6th gear. It's so tall, not good for anything but highway mileage. Also, the RPM drop from 4th to 5th really kills speed in a lower powered car. In my application, for road course use, I have to gear the car to top out in 4th. Having tighter ratios would allow me to gear the car lower, improving acceleration while being able to use 5th and 6th. Everyone's needs are different though.
Are there any builders in the US that put together boxes with PPG gear sets? Don't need all the fancy sequential stuff, but I would love one of their gear sets in my car.
Are there any builders in the US that put together boxes with PPG gear sets? Don't need all the fancy sequential stuff, but I would love one of their gear sets in my car.
If you dont have the power to warrant alternative gears, then it would be crazy to do down that route. Even the PPG dog engagement gearset is the guts of $10k.
If you need alternative ratios, the RSG Tranzilla would be a better option, although it is still a synchro set, albeit a triple cone so should be very good.
They seem to be around $3500-4000 which is a much more affordable option.
01-23-2015, 02:03 PM
#12
more sense than 0.50 as it gives tighter ratios off 4th and needs matched to a taller diff ratio.
PPG buyers are not meeting CAFE nor limiting themselves to stock rear ratios.
Last edited by jmd; 01-23-2015 at 02:08 PM.
01-23-2015, 03:38 PM
#14
If you dont have the power to warrant alternative gears, then it would be crazy to do down that route. Even the PPG dog engagement gearset is the guts of $10k.
If you need alternative ratios, the RSG Tranzilla would be a better option, although it is still a synchro set, albeit a triple cone so should be very good.
They seem to be around $3500-4000 which is a much more affordable option.
If you need alternative ratios, the RSG Tranzilla would be a better option, although it is still a synchro set, albeit a triple cone so should be very good.
They seem to be around $3500-4000 which is a much more affordable option.
My thinking with the alternative ratios is this: Car is used for road course events, will eventually become a NASA American iron car. Power isn't going to change based on class rules. Currently running 3.42 gears because the spread to 5th is so huge, the car needs to be geared to stay in 4th. If I have a close ratio trans, where 5th and 6th are useable, I could switch to 3.73, 4.10, etc. I would think due to gearing the car would accelerate quicker, and the fact that its a dog ring you aren't losing time shifting. How much of a gain in acceleration? Not sure, probably not anywhere substantial enough to warrant the huge money those parts cost.
01-23-2015, 04:30 PM
#15
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The RSG stuff seems really nice, but I don't want synchros anymore. Most cost effective for me will probably be picking up a used NASCAR box.
My thinking with the alternative ratios is this: Car is used for road course events, will eventually become a NASA American iron car. Power isn't going to change based on class rules. Currently running 3.42 gears because the spread to 5th is so huge, the car needs to be geared to stay in 4th. If I have a close ratio trans, where 5th and 6th are useable, I could switch to 3.73, 4.10, etc. I would think due to gearing the car would accelerate quicker, and the fact that its a dog ring you aren't losing time shifting. How much of a gain in acceleration? Not sure, probably not anywhere substantial enough to warrant the huge money those parts cost.
My thinking with the alternative ratios is this: Car is used for road course events, will eventually become a NASA American iron car. Power isn't going to change based on class rules. Currently running 3.42 gears because the spread to 5th is so huge, the car needs to be geared to stay in 4th. If I have a close ratio trans, where 5th and 6th are useable, I could switch to 3.73, 4.10, etc. I would think due to gearing the car would accelerate quicker, and the fact that its a dog ring you aren't losing time shifting. How much of a gain in acceleration? Not sure, probably not anywhere substantial enough to warrant the huge money those parts cost.
^^^THIS is why (plus the weight savings) most of the serious road race peeps on fraxx.com go to either Jerico/Tex 101/etc. dog ringed boxes, or 4 speed dog ring set ups in a T56 case.
IF I had the coin right now, I would be the 'beta tester' for a mostly street driven (but also autocrossed/open tracked, sorry drag race and straight line only peeps on here), PPG sequential internals, T56, as I like the idea of getting rid of the H pattern altogether.
Last edited by dailydriver; 01-23-2015 at 04:35 PM.
01-23-2015, 04:35 PM
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Those cars made upwards of 750 HP to the crank from 310 cubes, so their product MUST be quite strong.
01-24-2015, 03:50 AM
#17
9 Second Club
The RSG stuff seems really nice, but I don't want synchros anymore. Most cost effective for me will probably be picking up a used NASCAR box.
My thinking with the alternative ratios is this: Car is used for road course events, will eventually become a NASA American iron car. Power isn't going to change based on class rules. Currently running 3.42 gears because the spread to 5th is so huge, the car needs to be geared to stay in 4th. If I have a close ratio trans, where 5th and 6th are useable, I could switch to 3.73, 4.10, etc. I would think due to gearing the car would accelerate quicker, and the fact that its a dog ring you aren't losing time shifting. How much of a gain in acceleration? Not sure, probably not anywhere substantial enough to warrant the huge money those parts cost.
My thinking with the alternative ratios is this: Car is used for road course events, will eventually become a NASA American iron car. Power isn't going to change based on class rules. Currently running 3.42 gears because the spread to 5th is so huge, the car needs to be geared to stay in 4th. If I have a close ratio trans, where 5th and 6th are useable, I could switch to 3.73, 4.10, etc. I would think due to gearing the car would accelerate quicker, and the fact that its a dog ring you aren't losing time shifting. How much of a gain in acceleration? Not sure, probably not anywhere substantial enough to warrant the huge money those parts cost.
If you're in a really competitive series and you need the best performance and range of options, then something like the Samsonas would be hard to beat. They'll be able to make an adaptor plate and input shaft to suit your needs.
They offer a couple of sets of ratios, but more important they offer a set of interchangeable drop gears in the rear casing.
So it makes it like an easy diff ratio swap by just removing the rear casing of the trans.
Tractive from Sweden also offer this, although I think Tractive are a slightly lower power rating than the Samsonas.
Both make superb product though.
And both would be substantially lighter and smaller than a T56
But yes you'd probably be talking the guts of $15k by time it's installed
01-24-2015, 09:00 AM
#18
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I have been following this with interest.
I am currently building a road race car and would love a sequential shifter.
The biggest advantage of having the sequential shifter would come with the dog box. If you still need to use the clutch some of the advantage goes away. But you would still eliminate the missed shift issue.
The new Magnum 6 speed transmissions come in several different ratio packages. Some of the are close ratio so you don't have the big drop going into 5th they can also eliminate the super low 1st gear. They can handle up to about 700hp.
Yes they are still big & heavy but a lot less $$ than a Jerico 4 or 5 speed.
I will most likely go with a 4 speed Jerico even though I would like a 5 speed. The 5 speed is just to much $$.
I am currently building a road race car and would love a sequential shifter.
The biggest advantage of having the sequential shifter would come with the dog box. If you still need to use the clutch some of the advantage goes away. But you would still eliminate the missed shift issue.
The new Magnum 6 speed transmissions come in several different ratio packages. Some of the are close ratio so you don't have the big drop going into 5th they can also eliminate the super low 1st gear. They can handle up to about 700hp.
Yes they are still big & heavy but a lot less $$ than a Jerico 4 or 5 speed.
I will most likely go with a 4 speed Jerico even though I would like a 5 speed. The 5 speed is just to much $$.
05-03-2015, 05:55 PM
#19
Just to clarify the stock T56 Magnum is rated at 700hp in a 4500lb car launching on slicks without failure.
So in a lighter car they can handle a gangload more. I've pushed well over 1200rwhp thru my STOCK T56 Magnum in the LS9 turbo RX-7 and no issues.
The PPG sequential gear boxes are offered in a number of different ratios now. They are over $20K as projected.
So in a lighter car they can handle a gangload more. I've pushed well over 1200rwhp thru my STOCK T56 Magnum in the LS9 turbo RX-7 and no issues.
The PPG sequential gear boxes are offered in a number of different ratios now. They are over $20K as projected.
