gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

i dont want to get into a huge discussion of what is better b/c we all know its about the combo. but why is it i never see any vendor pushing cams that are IMO very streetable, make great usable power (most people dont want to spin to 7000+ rpm), and are easy to tune?

many of us remember back in 1999-2000 when the 221/221 T1 & B1, TR224, and the smaller Futral F3-F6 cams were making ~400 rwhp at a decent rpm and guys were still running great ETs on nearly stock tunes.

Lately, all i see is the trend that if you dont push a huge cams - then people dont take the shop seriously. i dont get it.

i saw a post about cars running 11s on a small cam and its up to 4 pages. guys are seriously surprised a small cam can run well. why are so many confused? and why are the vendors not pushing smaller cams?

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

you know as much as I do... its all about peak numbers to 95% of the people. People want a cam to brag about their 450 RWHP, it doesnt matter if the power curve looks like Mt. Everst, its what sells.

Brandon Boomhauer

iTrader: (10)

Very true, and the funny part is the guys who get the monstrosity cams get beat by the guy with the properly setup smaller cam time after time. I ran a 'medium' cam to me at least, the F14 and would constantly bag on the bigger cam'd guys.

I see a lot of people who want the most RWHP braggin rights, but then they never understand why the car doesn't do a damn think until 4k, and they have to drive around at 3k just to keep the car moving.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

big cams are a poor choice for a daily driver. I think it is the fact that most of the newer LS1 owners weren't around back then, and just stepping into the LSX scene you would think that a 232/232 is a tiny cam now.

I still prefer smaller cams with less than 230 intake duration on stock cube LSX engines.

69 camaro had a 230/230 114
C6 had a 230/230 114
SS vert had 230/227 112
black WS6 had 230/232 112
silver Formula came with a 232/236 112 and ran like ****

my new forged 347 has a 228/232 115 for the procharger

BigBronco

iTrader: (2)

Big Cams sell to the MASS Public. If I owned the business, I would market the big stuff too.

But depending on the person I could push a smaller cam.

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

i see so many times vendors selling these huge trex type cams for cars with 3.42 gears and have constant surging issues. it makes no sense.

also, tony - you mentioned many people were not around for the small cam days. but what i dont understand is, it is not like the small 224 type cams dont make power and great ET.

i understand selling based on peak rwhp. but hopefully, even most newbies know there are consequences to spinning the motor to 7K rpm.

kp

iTrader: (34)

Around here the car can run 15s but if it 'hits a lick' hard its the shiznit.

I dont get it either but whatever sells I guess..

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Tuning is the biggest change that has helped tame the bigger cams, but sadly, most broke-dick youngsters don't have the funds leftover to pony up for a good tune. As a consequence, their cars make hero numbers at 6500 rpm, but buck, surge and smoke below 2000 rpm. With proper tuning, the 240 cams can actually run pretty well, but unless you tune it yourself, it's tough to find a tuner that's going to do it right for less than $500. That stuff takes hours of data logging to make it perfect.

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

or you can throw in a 224 cam on nearly stock tuning, run 11s na, and have a great running car lol.

patrick i understand what you are talking about. but this proves my point on why the tuners are NOT selling the small cams. you can sell 500 dollar tunes (and retunes).

again just my .02

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

We still sell a lot of 224 and 228 cams as well as 224/228's. EVERYONE wants the biggest cam they can fit though because they see their buddy making 450rwhp with a big cam. My favorite "smaller" cam is a 228/228 on a 111lsa.

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

Not around here.. lol I know of an auto 224 car that would stall all the time and not run worth a crap with bucking

Also with the big cams, it like a big dick contest. People feel the need that they have to "measure up" to everyone else. One guy has a 240+ cam and the rest have to follow or they feel like the "litttle man".

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

A lot of the young kids want the pro-stock sounding idle. That's one of the big draws to the Donkey Dick cams. They don't realize they can get that sound with a 224/224 cam. Just lower the idle speed and pull some timing back. It will chop like a ****!

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

carl, who did the tune on that car? and did it have a stock converter?

my car idled perfect with a 230/230 on a 111 lsa comp xe grind with a futral tune. shrug.

while i do like the pro stock idle of the big cams, i dont like the hassle of depending on a tuner to get it right. it usually takes a few trips.

my next cam with this new 347 mild street buildup will have a futral F13 cam (if i can get him to order it for me). power and no headaches. if i DD my car the ole B1 or TR224 on a 114 cam would be my choice. i recommend those exact cams and others look at me like i dont know what i am talking about

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

yes/ no. you know the car

kp

iTrader: (34)

I think an XER 224/228 112 has a pretty cool idle in a 346, idling at 14.5:1 a/f just about anything has a nice little lope. Guys around here with the 240+ stuff in M6 cars with a 3.42 just crack me up since its all 1/8 mile tracks. Nothing like you pro-stock idle LS1 getting owned by a stock subaru STI at the local track..

My favorite line is 'man it sure pulls on the top end with this huge cam' when in reality it just has no bottom end

xfactor_pitbulls

iTrader: (16)

I ended up getting an F13 112 for my new motor, instead of doing about the same thing in a little bigger custom grind. These guys that are running the 240+ cams in DDs just kill me. I am over it.

maddboost

iTrader: (11)

Its all about what the customers want. At FLP our custom cams were much smaller than what everyone on the web advertised. We almost never speced out anything bigger than 230/230 unless the owner wanted to go racing. **** we had a customer with H/C(212/218), headers, stock SS CME and made 415 rwhp through M6. Running next to a stock car you couldnt tell the difference.

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

Exactly! When the latest and greatest dyno hype member here posts his cam-only huge cam setup, what cam do you think customers call and ask for? "We want so-and-so's cam!" You would not believe how many would ask for a huge cam and still had stock manifolds or converters. Then there is those that just want something slightly bigger than what will fit.

Well, at least I know how to properly check PtoV on those huge cams (clay is ghey!), there are some recent vendors cams that just should not be run that tight. Optimal cam events often don't account for unoptimum mechanical interference.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

This is soooo true. I think this partly has to do with the average age coming down on the board. Older members who have been there, done that tend want decent manners if it is a street car. We also have more full race oriented cars now that the price has come down.

Tuning helps a lot, but people lose sight of the fact that big overlap cams that make big power up don't make the power at daily driver rpms. Patrick made himself famous for 350 ft-lbs of torque at 3000 rpm (dynojet) with his AFR/ported FAST/headers/110 LSA set-up. Guess what, I make that TQ too on stock heads & manifolds, I just get don't have the big power up top. The 224/224 112 is still a great choice for a daily driver as -4* to +6* overlap is a optimal daily driver range (assuming headers).

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

I outran a good number of people with 230+ cam cars on the street with my 221/221 112 T1.