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Low Lash Solid Roller?Yes for the street.

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Old 04-03-2015, 11:42 AM   #41
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Well my first thought about these was what are the gains so I looked up the comparisons. Now I am asking myself how many hydraulic lifter failures are there compared to the success stories. I got an aweful lot of friends and aquantences with HR cammed cars. Cant think of a one that has had a failure. I know theyre out there but they are not very common. Afm lifters are the only failures that come to mind. I have always been intrigued with the idea of lumpy solid roller race motor. I may actually do it one day but it will be strictly for race. I wont be expecting the parts to hold up for thousands of miles. I am just not sold on the horsepower or reliability. I would think your putting much more stress on your valvetrain going solid. I question if the ratio was flipped and all the LS cars were solid what would the failure rate be. I dont have a problem with the LLSR cams or the solid lifter. I question how the rockers are going to hold up and wonder if valve seats and guides are going to last as long. Adjustable rockers fail quite often at the track. Theres no way I would trust them to last over the ls3 rocker in the original post. I am sure he is very happy with the performance and sound. Time will tell if its worth it.
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Old 04-03-2015, 11:51 AM   #42
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I'd agree there are no simple or definitive answers.

Either way, more options for users is a good thing, they can decide what may be best suited for them.

All I know is that I've tried several cam/lifter etc combos, none have ever given me the rpm range and 7-7500rpm functionality I want.

I'm hoping a SR will do this. It will certainly remove the hydraulic aspect from the equation if it fails to do it.
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Old 04-03-2015, 12:02 PM   #43
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I am aware of numerous individuals who have experienced hydraulic lifter failure with not only aftermarket but oem profiles as well. I am afraid you are confusing the high spring rates used in the past with the low lash solid roller technology today. The llsr lobe design allows a stable valve train without all the harsh abusive spring rates of the past. Kip's design is using spring rates comparable to hydraulic spring rates so there are no additional forces on the valves, seats or rockers. I am convinced that the llsr will no doubt prove to be just as if not more reliable then the current aggressive hydraulic lobes. You are correct that time will tell if it's worth it.
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Old 04-04-2015, 07:15 AM   #44
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I personally think Kip /Cam Motion has home run on their hands. I know WHEN I eventually do a cam, it will most likely be a LLR. I've been wanting to try a custom VVT cam thru Patrick G but I am curios if LLR can be done with VVT now.
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:14 AM   #45
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Cam motion has vvt cams on their website. I would bet they could set you up with just what your looking for just as they have done for these guys.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:03 AM   #46
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I wonder how big or aggressive these setups can get. I would be interested in a LLSR for my race motor. dedicated track max power production. Wonder how it would compare to a standard Solid Roller setup.
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Old 04-14-2015, 11:37 AM   #47
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I think the low lash aspect is more aimed towards longevity on a road driven car that sees more low rpm use than high rpm use.

As it's the low rpm use that thrashes the cam/lifter
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Old 04-14-2015, 01:01 PM   #48
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Yea but being a solid i dont think the high rpm stuff would bother it much. Longevity is more in the lobe design then anything.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:01 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violence.z06 View Post
I wonder how big or aggressive these setups can get. I would be interested in a LLSR for my race motor. dedicated track max power production. Wonder how it would compare to a standard Solid Roller setup.
The first Low Lash cam we made was for a NHRA Pro Stocker in 1989. The low lash can be made soft, hard,aggressive,vilant, or just right for the application. There is just less flopping around of the valve train with the LLR. The LL would work just as good but should be better than you Std Solid roller. We still make Std Solids but they are not the best for the street
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:05 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo1367 View Post
I personally think Kip /Cam Motion has home run on their hands. I know WHEN I eventually do a cam, it will most likely be a LLR. I've been wanting to try a custom VVT cam thru Patrick G but I am curios if LLR can be done with VVT now.
Ryan at GPI has. VVT in his L99 he ran 10:30 130 something shifts a at 7500 it's his daily driver. Yes we can do a VVT LLSR

Last edited by Kip Fabre; 04-14-2015 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:15 AM   #51
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I've got my T&D's on order with Kip

I've "heard" they'll fit under stock covers... might need to remove the baffles or even run a thicker gasket. Worse case scenario I'll find some spacers used and weld them to the covers.

As for power, I'd think it's safe to assume approx 20hp across the board, from what I've seen.
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:09 AM   #52
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I will be running a CamMotion LLSR for my build as well.

Last edited by BOLO; 04-17-2015 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:20 PM   #53
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What combination of lifters & pushrods are recommended? I was looking into the lightweight 5452's with Manton 503-145's, but that would require longer pushrods by an unknown amount. Are there any physics involved which says a lighter lifter is better than a shorter pushrod, etc? How much adjustability does the Sportsman rockers have to account for a pushrod which isn't exactly the correct length?
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Old 04-19-2015, 03:49 AM   #54
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I can imagine that a very lightweight lifter would be a good thing, but I guess it also depends on how aggressive the lobes are to start with

The lifters I opted for were just a modified drop in replacement from Morel.

Externally they appear identical to a hydraulic lifter, so I guess that also makes PR length a little easier to decide as it will fall within the same length range as a typical HR setup.
I had loads of pushrods around the 7.3-7.5" range so this made sense to me.

I'd probably have needed much longer if I opted for a dedicated short link bar type lifter.

I'd also think a shorter pushrod is bound to be a good thing as far as flex goes.
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:01 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMueller View Post
What combination of lifters & pushrods are recommended? I was looking into the lightweight 5452's with Manton 503-145's, but that would require longer pushrods by an unknown amount. Are there any physics involved which says a lighter lifter is better than a shorter pushrod, etc? How much adjustability does the Sportsman rockers have to account for a pushrod which isn't exactly the correct length?
I just used the Morel drop in replacement solid lifters. Cam Motion has them in stock. I also bought the pushrods from Cam Motion. They are 5/16 .120" wall made for use with the Jesel rockers. If I recall correctly, I had about .025" usable adjustment range in the rockers.
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:37 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMueller View Post
What combination of lifters & pushrods are recommended? I was looking into the lightweight 5452's with Manton 503-145's, but that would require longer pushrods by an unknown amount. Are there any physics involved which says a lighter lifter is better than a shorter pushrod, etc? How much adjustability does the Sportsman rockers have to account for a pushrod which isn't exactly the correct length?
At far as the street/ strip level the drop- ins are fine or the tie bar. The tie bar take will take a longer pushrod I think about .200 but I am not sure I will check and edit this. A shorter pushrod is always better than a long one but in this application it's not enough to worry about. As far as the adjustment on the shaft rockers most have a 5/16 24 thread. Most rockers company's want a maximum of two turnes out so one turn on a 5/16 24 = .041 per turn so you would have about .082 of total travel. Not wanting to be maxed out either way I would say you would have about .06 total to adjust.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:05 AM   #57
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Ryan at GPI has. VVT in his L99 he ran 10:30 130 something shifts a at 7500 it's his daily driver. Yes we can do a VVT LLSR
How aggressive can you get with VVT LLS cams? For instance, I've seen some performance VVT Cams for sale but they seem to have relatively short durations.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:10 AM   #58
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How aggressive can you get with VVT LLS cams? For instance, I've seen some performance VVT Cams for sale but they seem to have relatively short durations.
Part of the benefit with VVT is you simply dont need aggressive cams to get the job done.

Although how far you can go, or how workable the system is on these V8's, I've no idea.

I tend to like simple...less bits to break, and with a large V8, you hardly need every extra ounce you can get as you may do with smaller 4cyl motors
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Old 04-20-2015, 03:16 PM   #59
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Quote:
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How aggressive can you get with VVT LLS cams? For instance, I've seen some performance VVT Cams for sale but they seem to have relatively short durations.
You can get as aggressive as you want. As long as we can grind it on the cores we have.
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Old 05-09-2015, 04:19 PM   #60
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Bringing this back up, Kip have you done a llsr setup for a blown 346 yet? Seriously thinking of making a change with new heads as well.
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