wastintime

Hey everyone,

First of all I need to apologize. One, I do not own an LS1 although I have driven several cars with LS engines. Secondly, I am sure there are several posts on the subject of HID installs. After spending hours doing research online I came across the Lighting FAQ and it seemed like a lot of people on this forum have experience with these installs. I figured someone could probably give me an answer quickly or at least point me in the right direction. So, I apologize if, in some ways, this is a repost, but I hope my specific question won't be.

Anyway, I'm researching installing a Hella 90mm Bi-Xenon module, specifically the 8934041, for a project that I'm working on. It's actually a very neat project. I work for a non-profit in DC called KaleidoLINKS and I created and run a program for them called KL Racing where we help groups of low-income, minority, youth in DC build a race car from the ground up.

That's really an oversimplification, a more detailed description of the project can be found here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...race-team.html

We are currently building a Westfield XTR2 kit car. If anyone wants to check out our progress, we have photo and video galleries up here: www.kaleidolinks.org/klpower.html

Anyway, I'm wiring the car right now, and as I said, we want to install the Hella 8934041 90mm Bi-Xenon headlights. Primarily for cost savings over seperate high and low beam units. Also, the low power draw over Halogen lights is nice for our application. The main reason we are running the HIDs, however, is that one race we will be competing in is the 1 lap of America, and my co-driver and I have both run it in a few different cars and lighting is imperative to safety on the overnight stints, so we really want the HIDs in the car.
Running the Bi-Xenons seems to have introduced a complication in that they use shutters to control the light output and block light on the low beam setting and allow it to pass on the high beam setting. According to Hella, in addition to the 8934041 which includes the module, D2S bulb, ballast unit, and 1.5M of shielded wire, you also need part numbers 162211801 (shutter operation) and H84985241 (power connection) to successfully install the lights.

What I can't seem to understand is that NO ONE sells these. I found one automotive electrical site that even lists them and they are special order items that could take 2 months to arrive. It doesn't seem to make sense that everyone sells the lights themselves, but the parts required to install them seem to be unavailable.

Has anyone actually installed these lights? Were you able to source these parts? Is it possible to perform an installation without them? If anyone has any advice I would personally be very appreciative, and as an organization we would also really appreciate the support.

Thanks in advance,

--
Andy Stallworth
KaleidoLINKS Chief Race Programmer / Driver
http://www.kaleidolinks.org

VIP1

I don't think anyone here has used the Hella 90mm bixenon. Honestly there are better bixenon projectors out there for a lot less money. Why did you choose the Hella 90mm for your application? Do you really need a sealed projector or are you installing these in existing headlight housings? For bixenon, I'd recommend the FX or TL projector. You can find them on ebay for around $140 for a pair. Then the only thing you'd need to add would be bulbs and ballasts. You can get a complete setup of FX-R projectors (replica FX) with bulbs and ballasts from The Retrofit Source for $370. In the case of the FX, the wiring is simple. The ballasts need low-beam switched power. The solenoid needs switched high-beam power. Both are simple 2-wire connections (although I'd recommend making a relay harness for the low beam to deal with the initial draw of the HID turning on).

For plenty more info on this and HID in general, check out the Forums at HID Planet. You'll find plenty of retrofits on there. I'd suggest you do some reading on there to see what others have done.

I didn't post links in this post, but if you google the names (or type the name exactly as the address), you'll find the sites I mention.

Is this the car they are going into?



If that is the car, then you can use the FX or TL projector as long as there is a clear lens in front and the back of the projector is covered to protect it from the elements (since the FX and TL are not sealed).

In the pic, there appear to be removable dark lenses in front of the headlights. For using the FX or TL projector, I'd recommend replacing the dark lens with a clear lens and leaving it there (don't remove it during racing).

The TL is a physically larger projector. The FX is easier to get and cheaper. Also, there is a replica FX that has some improvements including a better high beam. This is not a knock at the stock FX at all which does have a great high beam. The replica also has a sharper cut-off which some people like and some don't. I prefer a softer cut-off myself. Check out the picture threads on the Forums at HID Planet to compare and judge for yourself.

Also considering the amount of money you were going to spend on the Hella units, you could buy 2 sets of the FX or TL and still save money.

If you really insist on the Hella units, Rally Lights carries them and their connectors.

Also, if you want even greater light output, you can get 55 watt HID instead of the stock 35 watt HID. Warning though: the extra heat may damage smaller projectors due to trapped heat. The FX-R seems to be fine, but I've heard mixed results with the stock FX. The general consensus is to stick with genuine OEM HID bulbs (ex: Philips & Osram) which run cooler than aftermarket kit bulbs.

Many people recommend the Philips 85122 & 85122+ bulbs for 35 watt and DL50 bulbs for 55 watt. The DL50 is much more expensive and harder to find. Many people have run the 85122 & 85122+ at 55 watt without issue

VIP1

Here is a bixenon output comparison thread with plenty of pictures:
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46359

wastintime

VIP,
Thanks for the response. First, I contacted Rally Lights and a few other vendors, but hadn't heard back. They don't actually have the connectors on their website, so I'm hoping I'll hear from them next week and I can get the ball rolling if it will take them 1-2 months to get them.

That is the car they are going into. Which is one of the reasons we do need a sealed unit. I'm not sure that the back of the units will be safe from the elements. Basically there is a fiberglass shelf that the lights mount to, but the back will be cutout and exposed to anything coming off the tires, and that's where the wiring should come in depending on how much wheel clearance we've got.
If you look at the 2 and 2 configuration in the picture, we're actually going to change that. The HIDs will go on the bottom shelf which is normally where the marker and turn signal lights go, but then we don't have any light loss from the lip of the top shelf. On top we'll have an LED marker light and an LED turn signal light.
This car will definitely get driven in the rain too, especially on 1 lap. The front lens is clear, however, it may have just looked dark in that picture.
One of the other reasons I chose the Hellas is the weight of their ballast units is so low. We can use HIDs and only add 8lbs to the total weight of the car. That and Jon and I have both driven LMP cars and other race cars with them and they're modular, they work, we like them, and if we can make them work I'd like to try to get them in the car. Yes, they are a bit pricey, that's the only real downside.

I don't know that we'd go up to the 55W HID units. Mainly because we're so low to the ground we can probably get away with running the high beams constantly so we don't need super bright low beams, not to mention the HIDs will already be very bright. The other issue is power draw. We only have a 33amp generator to work with, although on 1 lap we will be towing a trailer which will have a 55amp alternator and a large battery running all of the trailer's lights and a 12v accessory circuit for the GPS, radar detector, and a power inverter. I should be able to have it augment the car's generator too, but for the most part we want to safely be able to run everything off of the 33amp generator. So, HIDs and LEDs all around are helping with that.

I'll certainly do a little more research into the FX and TL lights, but if they aren't protected from the elements, that may be a big issue for our application.

Thanks again for the input

VIP1

Depending on mounting depth (if I remember correctly the FX is smaller than the Hella bixenon), you might be able to mount the FX projectors far forward enough that you can cover the rear so that they aren't exposed to the wheel wells. I don't know how those headlight buckets are shaped front and rear and the available space.

I would recommend putting the projectors in the higher location which may help with beam spread and distance, although it depends on how much room you have.

Also there are aftermarket digital slim ballasts that are smaller and may use a little less power.

Here is a comparison pic I found on google showing the size difference between the older-style and slim digital:



The only thing with the aftermarket ballasts is that you'd need an adapter cable to convert the aftermarket AMP connectors to D2S (if you use a OEM D2S bulb). The AMP connectors are those two black cylindrical connectors with the yellow rubber accordion seals. A D2S connector is a big connector for the D2S bulb. The adapter is easy to get and often costs $15. Here is an example:

VIP1

Rally lights does have power and shutter connectors listed, but their part numbers don't match what you've listed.

VIP1

That would probably bother the other drivers. You might be blinding them. I was just wondering what the rules say about the headlights and high beams.

wastintime

Ok cool, good to know. I figured they had to sell them, I just couldn't find them listed under accessories or by the Hella part numbers and it seemed really odd that nobody seemed to sell them.

wastintime

I think we'll be ok, you've got to remember that these headlights are only going to be... 8-12 inches off the ground, so there's almost no chance they could be aimed at anyone's eyes. We're more worried about people being able to see a car this low than anything else, especially from the rear.

Also, we've done drive-by tests in my lowered 911 with the high beams on and no one has been able to tell, granted those are 85W halogens, but still, if those are low enough to not bother anyone I'm really not worried about the XTR. And we probably wouldn't run with them on constantly, it's just nice to know we'll have the option to do so, especially since it doesn't draw any more power with the shutters.

Lukas

Hi Andy,

Did you ever find out more about the extra parts needed? I just bought a set of the Hella Bi-Xenons on Ebay for a motorcycle project, where I needed them to be sealed.

Cheers,
Lukas

xXxSilveradoxXx

iTrader: (5)

I'm not even gonna say it.

Nice car though.

wastintime

Lukas,
We did find them, actually I wish there'd been a better description by Hella explaining that it was just the electrical connectors. We're in the middle of getting the engine in the car, but once that's finished we're moving on to the bodywork and will be installing the headlights. We have to have the car finished in just under a month, so I'd imagine that will happen fairly quickly.
The bi-xenons are a little bit bigger than we thought they'd be, so it's going to take a little bit more bodywork than we thought to make them work, but I'm still sure it'll be worth it in the end. I'll definitely post some pictures once we've gotten them fitted to the car.

Good luck with your project.

wastintime

Wait, now you have to say it, cause I don't get it.

It was kind of funny that you quoted that though, we just had a meeting about 2 days ago where we're no long really saying that because we had issues with some of our potential grants/funders. Some people heard racing and went over the moon, others heard it and really had a problem with the program not being educational enough and I'm sitting here going... wtf? I'm teaching calculus classes for the kids and it's not educational enough? So now we're stressing that it's an educaion program, which it really is, and the labratory just happens to be the really cool lab of an auto-shop and race tracks.

xXxSilveradoxXx

iTrader: (5)

^ I'd rather not get banned, re-read what I quoted in my first post, you'll see what I meant.

wastintime

Hey everyone,
So, the car is almost finished... we've had setback after setback... the 90mm HIDs came out ok though, they stick out a little, and the covers aren't on in the picture... we're still working on the body, but they are BRIGHT!!!

Here's a video of one of the first test drives: I'm not sure the president of the non-profit was quite prepared for the noise!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We_BWRcbZ5s