DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

If I lovered my car 1.5 inches and got the wings west body kit (except for the wing <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" /> ) would I be able to tell a difference in the car at high speeds (I like to top end the car a lot) and just wanted to improve the areodynamics. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Ling_650vette

iTrader: (1)

imo, lower the car, but dont add the bodykit. Its too riced out for me. But, its your car, do what makes you happy. Just my .02 on the deal. if i had a Camaro, i might do the WW grille, but thats it from them. Car looks sweet enough as is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

JackZ28

Yes they will help at higher speeds. I run the autobahn a LOT, and I noticed a distinct difference when I took them off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

2002_TAWS6

I heard that the front Wing West piece blocks the radiater and therefore causes the engine to heat up more (atleast in normal driving). Is that true?

Is that because those that installed the WW front piece removed the air damn/front spoiler ?

Ackattack

I'd think you'd run into ground clearance problems with lowering and ground effects. I'd just go for lowering if I were you.

For really improved aerodynamics, you could tape up the nose, remove mirros, tape hood cracks, and a few other things, but of course it would be a pain.

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

Lowering would be the way to go.....I was reading somewhere that the ground effects cause more problems due to frontal area drag than they help with downforce because in essence they make the front of the car bigger.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

Im just lookin to stay at aconstant 150+ and keep all 4 corners on the ground.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> if i had a Camaro </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">T/A <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

but the main part is that I dont wana be at a calm fast pace and then I feel a tire off the ground(already too late)

JackZ28

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2002_TAWS6:
<strong>I heard that the front Wing West piece blocks the radiater and therefore causes the engine to heat up more (atleast in normal driving). Is that true?

Is that because those that installed the WW front piece removed the air damn/front spoiler ?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It has a huge provision for air to go through, so unless they removed the air dam, I don't see how it could block any air from going into the radiator. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Now, looking at the RKSport piece, I can see how that might happen.

Z06PSI

iTrader: (33)

I think that this is one of the single biggest advantages of our cars (f-bodies). I have driven fox-body and the sn95 body mustangs and both were horrid to drive at 130+mph. <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" /> Downright scary no steering control and the front end felt floaty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Both of my f-bodies (95z and 00SS) were and are stable above and beyond 160mph. Listen to SSG-Z28. I have also driven extensively on the autobahn and there is nothing like going 150+ <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" /> and getting passed by a 911 widebody like you were standing still (it happened to me!!) <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" /> . Lower it and fill in holes(except for cooling) and also lower drag(mirrors etc.).
God I wish I was back in Europe with the SS and 2.73's or taller gear. It would be a top end contest. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: redrumss ]</small>

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

Woo Hoo! This thread is right up my alley! I run in the Open Road Racing events where top speed is king. I have been researching and applying alot of aerodynamic issues on my car getting it ready to run over 200mph for a bit of an extended period of time. Your wings west body kit will give you "some" help. Your biggest problem on the T/A is the frontal area of the car(I am guessing its a WS6 because of your avatar). Those big snouts dont particularly help you at high speeds. Its like the intake on the SS, it begins to act more like a "air brake" at high speed.

Aerodynamics on your car is going to be a question of "how much do I want to chop up my car" or "How much do I want to spend in new parts that I can chop up that would still take me a better part of a day to put on and take off the car".

Here is a short list of things that would really help your aero
-Formula hood
-mask off or fill all frontal openings on the nose of the car
-remove mirrors
-tape body seems
-air dam that damn near scrapes the ground right off the nose of the car but still allows enough air to pass to the intake area
-Air splitter on the nose
-Tape off your ttops (if you have them)
-Remove antanae
-Remove your cowl or cut small holes on the very back of the hood to let high pressure air out from engine compartment
-air diffusor under the *** end
-blah-blah-blah

At the speeds your talking about running, you really dont need to get the above mentioned serious. The hood and a taking care of the frontal area of the car is where you would see the most improvements. But when you start talking 150+mph for any period of time. It has to be a total package. Aero+Suspension. The stock Fbody suspension isnt the safest stuff to run at these speeds. Before I messed with aero I would get a nice suspension set up. That is a word to the wise. I have seen more than once what a MINOR hick up can do to a car at over 140mph. Playing at these speeds takes planning to do it safe.

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 02:17 AM: Message edited by: NataSS Inc ]</small>

v7guy

iTrader: (1)

I would be interested in hearing some more about suspension setups that are good to ideal for high speeds, any links or anyhting you can give us????.....sent you some mail too.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

But i said 150+ witch i meant 150 is probly the slowest ill be going <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" /> but i dont want to take it to the extreems like taking of mirrors and the like. When i got to school in the morning I have about a 2.5 mile stretch of open freeway(I can go another way and have about 5) and I like to use it as a morning wake up to get the adrinilane going. Im willing to make some moddifications but its my daily driver about 90% of the time. Someone told me that I had to have 600hp to go 200, dont really wana go that fast but I plan to shave weight down with lighter suspention componenets to about 3500, maybe 3400 and have about 450 at the wheels, from there I want to work on areodynamics to take me the rest of the way. Long story short is I want to be able to top end the car and keep as much as I can. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

v7guy

iTrader: (1)

FWIW, I've read a couple times that it takes a vette between 500 and 550 hp to reach 200, they are way more aerodynamic than our cars, an f body needs around 650 to reach the 200 mark, I'm guessing with maybe 3:23s that would be close to your top speed
Also a 93 6spd camaro with a 383 and and a Vortech T trim spooling out 18 lbs of boost with a 2:73 gearing put up a radar verified run of 214mph....it did by the way make 650hp and 612 ft lbs of torque. It was believed to have quite a bit more left in it, but I never heard anything else about it.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

Son, Do you have any idea what the physics of air are doing at 160+ mph? Do you know how long it takes to bring a car to a stop from 160+. Ever seen what happens when your suspension uncompresses at over 160mph from a small frost heave in the road? Or even how long it takes the human mind to realise that something has gone wrong with the car, then decide what the best way to correct the issue is and then actually make the manual inputs to car. Have any idea how much ground you just covered in that second and a half? And then hoping to god you made the right inputs.......Do you understand the stress's that your tires are under and how much heat builds up at those speeds on your tires. Now figure a small piece of debris in the road, say a chunk of rock off a concrete truck (I am talking smaller than a golf ball, maybe larger). You see it in the distance but cant tell what it is. By the time you realise what it is, its to late to grab a foot full of brakes. Doing that would put the ABS into overtime and boil your brake fluid causing your tires to lock up and then right off the road you go. Since you cant grab a bunch of brake and you cant swerve to miss the rock you hit it with a front tire causing the instantanious vaporisation of it. At 160+mph you now just lost one of two of your main directional controls. IF god is smiling on you that day the car might stay on the road. Sad fact is that loosing a tire at 160+ MPH is a catastrophic event, usually resulting in an extended hospital stay or a body bag.

Man, I am not trying to rain on your parade. Going fast rocks! But its not something to be messed with on a casual level. I have had 3 friends come off the road in Open road Racing events, ALL from tire failure. One came off at 140mph. Him and his navigator walked away, How they did......Luck was with them. The other lost a tire at 170mph, both him and his navigator required 2 months in a hospital, 9 surgeries between the 2 and constant rehabilitaion and 1 shoulder replacement. The last one, is no longer with us. Bud Riedenhour lost his left front tire at 215mph. His car left a debris field almost a mile long and a small crater where the initial impact was. He was DOA when medical crews got to him. I dont like to talk about Bud, but if what happened to him will shed some light on the dangers of high speed, I will.

Notice out of those 3 incidences as the speed got higher the more damage it caused? And all of these cars were equiped with the most up to date safety technology money can buy, fire systems, NASCAR roll cages, fire suits, arm restraints, neck collars, harness's.

If you have the desire to run that fast. Come out and run in the Silver State Classic Challenge with the rest of us nut cases. The environment is "somewhat" controlled but its still a public highway (closed for race day). Not only that but there are safety crews there on scene in the event of an accident. Check out www.silverstateclassic.com or www.openroadracing.com.

It will take you about 600FWHP to hit 200mph in an Fbody if all of youre aero is right.

unit213

NataSS Inc

Good advice. That kind of mph should be treated with respect. If not, it'll kill ya. BTW, sorry about your buddy.

2002_TAWS6

Nata SS inc, sorry about your friend. Its good to have a person like you to come a long in posts like these reminding us of how dangerous high speed driving could be. Thats really great advice.

Nata SS, you also mentioned "taping up the hood would cause better aerodynamic performance on high speeds.... because the hood would act like air brakes just like the SS hood". At what range of speed does it start acting like that? Also what if the WS6 hood was sealed to the airbox how would that work? better or worse? is that too much air pressure to the airbox? (please apply this question to speeds under 180mph) anything over that is too much for me <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> .

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: 2002_TAWS6 ]</small>

Ling_650vette

iTrader: (1)

IMO, if the WS6 hood was "taped up" the air would flow better, but it wouldn't flow as clean as if on a stock TA/Formula hood. Id assume that even taping off the nostrils wouldn't be all that great either. Just my opinion tho.

Nat, great post! really great to see someone have a vast experience and actually sharing it for someone's well being. Its all well and good to go fast, but theres a time and a place for it. F.O.D. (Foreign Object Damage) is something you cant predict while on the street. @ the track, they try to keep it as clean as possible. Just keep it rubber side down ladies and gents

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

Guys, I dont have "vast" knowledge of this stuff. I have only been running in these events for one season and I didnt even hit all the events. But at the last one I was at I spent almost the entire time with the 2 big dogs of the sport. Both of them unlimited class drivers. Both of them have seen speeds in excess of 220mph. I picked thier brains for every bit of knowlege I could get from them about what a car does at high speed. And I am applying everything I learned from them to what I am doing with my car. I plan on hitting 200mph in my car by the sept. 04 event. But I want to make sure that I took every precuation along the way. I just get nervous when I see people that say they are going to try and run 160+mph that havent really planned the situation out. Short bursts to that speed "may" be ok. But once it becomes a sustained speed is when darwin starts getting closer to you. When I was talking to one of the unlimited drivers over a few drinks, I asked him "Whats it like at 220mph?". "Well its not death......but you can sure see it from there". That kind of keeps things in perspective for me.

2002 TA WS6: You mentioned sealing the air box. My buddy ("Racehead" on this board) ran his 01 WS6 in the May event. He hit his tech speed of 165mph. He also had the full ram air mod with the sealed box. There was enough air pressure moving through the nostrils that the air box came apart if I remember right. A formula hood would be optimum. Especially if you could tape the 2 little openings on the front along with the turn signals and fog lights. On my SS I purchased a complete new nose piece that I am using carbon fiber to cover ALL of the frontal openings, to give me a completely smooth front end. I am also working with a couple of people right now on a Carbon fiber hood with heat and air extractors. You would not believe how much high pressure air builds up underneath your hood. In the Sept. event at 165mph in an 02 C5 vette there is enough air being forced into the engine compartment to make it swell about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. It was really noticable right above the wheel hump where the fender meets the hood.

2002_TAWS6

WOW! I never expected that much pressure in such high speeds! Thanks for all the info NataSS. Thats really amazing.

Let me get this straight. If I were to race another WS6 from 0 to 165 mph (which should be about 3/4 mile or some where there anyways lets not be too critical about this) who would be the winner in the race, the person with the taped nostrils or the person with the ram air seal? or would the winner simply be the better driver?

Im guess the person with the ram air seal since pressure would not be much of a problem in a top end speed race of 165mph and that cold air would serve as a better advantage since both racers immediatley let their foots off the gas upon obtaining the speed of 165mph ... what would you think?

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: 2002_TAWS6 ]</small>

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

The reason for this post is to make sure my areo dynamics are all in check and to get all the advice i can get about saftey. Im just building my car up to around 420-430FWHP nothing too extreem. Im just looking to make sure all my tires stay planted at high speeds. When I do get up to that speed I only stay for around 5 seconds cause of the tunnel vision. If it means loosing my life I wont do it. I refuse to do it if other cars are on the freeways also. I stated that it would take me around 600rwhp to go 200, but im never gona go that fast, I dont even want that much power out of my car. Just looking to have fun and stay safe. Thanks for all the advice. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />