SpecV44

iTrader: (7)

So here's the story;

We bought 2 Fuddle stall's, 1 for our 2005 GTO, the other for our 1998 LQ4/4L60E Jimmy project. We installed the 3400 stall in the 4L60E for the Jimmy, then put it in. We dont know if it was broken before we put it in, or after, but the pump keys were broken off after we pulled the converter out. We measured and measured and measured before putting the trans to the motor to ensure it was all the way in, but apparently it didnt matter. We pulled the transmission apart, put a new pump in (because it damaged the splines on the shaft), new seals, everything.

I put the whole assembly up a couple weeks ago, it would turn over and I started it once. It will turn over until I fully tighten the bolts to the motor, then it locks up, back them out 1/2 turn and it would spin right over. I pulled the trans down because we had a leak, pulled the converter and everything was fine.

Now we were ready to put it back in, so we put the 3200 converter in, measured the distance from the block to the mounting surface on the flexplate, and the distance from the pads on the converter and mounting surface, both are the same. We put the trans up, and the converter gets stuck in the crank, we cant turn the converter.

Tomorrow I am going to put the stock converter back in and see if it still does it, I would have to imagine that it still will, because it has done it with 2 other converters so far. We are also searching for another flexplate just to ensure that we have covered all bases.

I have put the converter itself up to the crank/flexplate, and it fits no problem, cleaned the nose of the converter and made sure the crank was free of debris, even put vasaline on the nose to ensure a smooth seat, no luck with any.

Sorry for the long post, but it has been a drawn out process. I am to the point where we should have just put my 4L60 or 700r4 in and been done with it, but we also want the ability to change shift points via HPTuners. If anyone has any ideas PLEASE post them, we are open to anything.

dmoss69

iTrader: (6)

yep.....

either 1 of 3 things.

FIRST make sure there are 2 pump keys visible. If not, go no further and replace the pump. Put the converter in the pump BEFORE installing the tranny into the car. turn the converter and see if it spins in the pump with no binding.

2. 4L60E's come with 2 different length pumps, if you haven't changed the pump, then you should be ok.

3. you're getting hung up on the o-ring seal...... first, line up the pump keys with the notches in the nose of the converter. install, turn the converter, and keep working it in until you hear it clunk. once it engages, you still need to push it into the tranny, it'll slide on in about another 1/2 inch. I just had the only one in my lifetime give me this fit, which it had a brand new gm o'ring installed on the input shaft also.

SpecV44

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, we ALWAYS check for the keys each time we put the converter in, and check to ensure they have moved when we pulled the converter off. It spins fine by hand, and pumps fluid out the cooler line.

We changed the pump, but verified that it was the same length as the one that we took out of the transmission. We are not completely sure that the pump had not been changed before, because we dont actually know if we broke the keys first, or if we bought the transmission that way.

There is in fact a brand new GM o-ring on the shaft, we replaced the old one because there were some pieces missing out of it. I will try everything again tomorrow and see what is up. Thanks dmoss.

9000th01ss

iTrader: (10)

This is where a budget priced converter actually costs more than a 'real' converter.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

maybe thats the problem, maybe not. fuddle has been sucking lately from what i've heard.

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

I had a Yank, I always have installed them like described up there..install it into the Tranny on the ground, put it on the Shaft and hold it up a little bit and spin it till it locks into the Pump, then push it in. Then line the Tranny up on the Engine, and make sure it free-spins before bolting it up.

SpecV44

iTrader: (7)

That is the odd thing, it seems like it needs to be into the trans farther, but every measurement we have found on the internet says we are in the correct amount, I dont remember it off the top of my head, but I believe 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" from mounting surface to pads on converter. We have a new flexplate we are picking up today to see if by some chance our flexplate is wrong.

SpecV44

iTrader: (7)

I dont think it is the fuddle part, as we measured 2 fuddles and the stock converter too, all came out with the exact same measurement.

All Black SS

You should turn the converter very frequently while moving the bellhousing closer tothe engine. If it stops you have a problem.
Also there are a few things inside the converter that could cause a lock up condition, even if the outsides are all identical.

SpecV44

iTrader: (7)

2 different converters, 2 different pumps, same problem both times? I am thinking that it is either the fuddle converters, or our flexplate is wrong. I am going to stick the stock converter that came with the transmission, in tonight and see if it still does it. I may wait until we pick up our LS1 F-body flexplate tonight or tomorrow and try the fuddle again.

dmoss69

iTrader: (6)

I had the EXACT problem you're having, and I had never had this problem before until last week, and I've seen my share of trannys.

Make sure to lube the o-ring, put the converter onto the input shaft, spin until it "clunks" onto the pump keys, then push the converter towards the transmission. It'll move!! mine moved about another 1/2 inch, and this is the only tranny that I've ever had do this, and that's the only tranny that I've put the new GM o-ring on. All the others, I put the o-ring out of my tranny rebuild kit in, don't ask why the difference, it just was.

Push, push, and push again...spin the converter, and push some more.

SpecV44

iTrader: (7)

Thats what I thought, but it seems after the 3 clunks that it wont go in any further. My dad had surgery yesterday, so I will get back into the trans this weekend. I will pull the converter off, lube the o-ring up and put it back on. Thanks for your help D, hopefully that it is what it is

dmoss69

iTrader: (6)

I hope so too!

SpecV44

iTrader: (7)

Made a little progress today, but none in the correct direction. We put 2 different transmissions up and down 5 times today, all with the same problem.

We started by pulling the fuddle off the 4L60E, lubing the shaft, o-ring, everything. Put it back in, put the trans up, converter meets the flexplate before we get a chance to even tighten the bellhousing bolts up.

After doing all that, we decided to try our non LS series 4L60E, with our flexplate for an LS motor, with a non LS trans. Put the flexplate up, trans up, same problem as the LS 4L60E.

After that, we measured the removeable bellhousing from the LS and the non LS, the LS was longer than the non LS, so we swapped bellhousings. At that point, the non LS did not bind, however, we had to pull the converter to the flexplate almost half an inch, which we thought was too much. The killer for that swap was the fact that after we swapped everything, tightening up the converter bolts, then for some reason the starter didnt want to line up on the flexplate correctly and was grinding.

With the bellhousing off of the LS 4L60E, we decided to put the stock converter onto it and check clearances. It seemed to go in a lot farther than the Fuddle did, so once again we swapped bellhousings; LS had the LS and non LS had the non LS, and put the stock converter back on. We measured and it seemed we had 1" between the pads and the mounting surface, which we didnt think was enough, but the converter could not have gone any further in, as it would have been hitting the bellhousing.

We put the trans up, and as of right now, it is still sitting there, because we went to tighten the bellhousing bolts and it locked the converter against the flexplate.

We are at the end of our ropes with it now. Here is the list of what are using:

2000 LQ4 iron block 6.0L motor
2003 5.3 iron block 4L60E
2001 F-Body LS1 SFI flexplate

It seems almost like the crank is too long, but we dont think it is because the starter lines up correctly. Any chance there is a spacer or something on the crank??? Thanks guys!

SpecV44

iTrader: (7)

UPDATE:

We just found out that the 1999 and 2000 LQ4s have a LONGER crank than the other LQ4s. Apparently these are only for use with a 4L80E transmission. Can anyone tell me how far the crank sticks out on an LS1? From flexplate mounting surface to the end of it? (Trans side) We are looking to find the difference, because we will either need to shim the trans back or have a completely custom converter made.

All Black SS

Pics sure would help.
This is a non LS input shaft. Does either trans look like this?

This is an LS type input.
Is this what you have?

Here is an early production crank, which is longer.

And a late production short crank.
I found that here.

Found some pics here, might take a while for the page to load.

Seems you need a non LS converter and transmission since it seems you have a long crank LQ4.

Your converter should look like the one here on the engine side. In this article they are doing the opposite of what you're doing, they have a short crank LS engine and are adapting it to a non LS 4L60E using a crank spacer.

It would help if you posted pics of what you have.
Sounds like you need to use a non LS trans and converter.

SpecV44

iTrader: (7)

Now that we know our LQ4 has the early crank, the longer one (.22" longer), we are going to have a spacer machined or get a custom converter made. At least now we know so we can make the necessary adjustments. Thanks for all your help guys

1992yj

Hi Not sure if what you are going through, is the same as what I had to deal with.

I've been busy with other things lately but, let us know what you find out.

Here is a thread I made:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...ghlight=1992yj