Go Back   LS1TECH > CHASSIS, SUSPENSION, APPEARANCE > Automatic Transmission
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

Automatic Transmission
4L60E | 4L80E | TH350 | TH400 | TH2004R | Powerglide | Converters | Shift Kits
Sponsored by
PerformaBuilt Transmissions

A4 1/4 mile question.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-27-2009, 10:58 AM   #1
TECH Apprentice
 
twinturbo496's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 318
Default A4 1/4 mile question.

I also posted this in the 10 sec section, but perhaps it should have been here.

In the 10 sec 1/4 section, I found lots of A4 combinations listed, in general it looks like the following is typical:

3500-3800# cars
450-550 hp
27-28" tall tires
125-130 trap speed
Most are geared with 3.73 or 4.10, but a few are running 3.42

Assuming 27.5" tires & 125 mph trap speed:

3.42 rear = 5200 rpm in Drive, 3650 in OD
3.73 rear = 5700 rpm in Drive, 4000 in OD
4.10 rear = 6250 rpm in Drive, 4400 in OD

So, I assume that every combination I looked at is just running the car out in 3rd gear? Am I wrong on this?

Any A4 cars running a 4.8x rear gear and running out in 4th? With a 4L60E that would be around 5200 rpm @ 125 mph

I had a 1980 malibu with a 700R4, 468 BBC, 4.88 Dana 60, 31" Tires. It ran mid 11's, but I couldn't get it to stay in 4th gear at full throttle, so I only ran about 115 mph trap speeds.
twinturbo496 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 11:04 AM   #2
TECH Enthusiast
 
Trader Rating: 6
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Buda, Texas
Posts: 621
Send a message via AIM to stoverz28
Default

shifting into fourth will most likely slow you down, that over drive is hard to get power through.
__________________
AKA SuperSlow
stoverz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 11:24 AM   #3
TECH Apprentice
 
twinturbo496's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 318
Default

I have been thinking about the 3.06 first gear in the 700R4 & 4L60, perhaps the typical street driven F body doesn't have enough tire to hold a 3.06 first gear x 4.88 x high stall x 450 hp.

My malibu had a stock iron head big block, & a really cheap converter, but still managed 1.51 60 ft. It probably would have been faster with 4.10 or 4.30 gears since I couldn't use 4th gear.

My hot rod has a 496, 4L80E, 28x11.50 et drags, and a 3.50 rear gear. The converter sucks, but I am going to put in a set of 4.84 gears and see what happens.
twinturbo496 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 05:16 PM   #4
11 Second Club
 
TermnEatr's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 24
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 635
Default

ive never had a problem with my od in the 1/4 my cammed 00 ss with 2800 stall and 100 shot went 11.6 at 119 on 27 inch tires
__________________

BOOST PERFORMANCE
TermnEatr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 05:42 PM   #5
Launching!
 
01WS6er's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: alabama
Posts: 218
Default

a 60e trans will not shift into forth gear under WOT or i have not been able to get anyone to do it. The computer keeps it from doing that.
__________________
01 WS6, A4, MTI clear lid 29k miles Diablo tune
94 S15 4x4, 5" TM lift 4.3 cpi, A4, 3.73 w/zexel torsen, 170k miles
99 s10 blazer 4.3 auto 170k full leather, new daily

GOIN BROKE BUT NSTYLE
01WS6er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 10:18 PM   #6
TECH Senior Member
 
01ssreda4's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 88
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 19,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WS6er View Post
a 60e trans will not shift into forth gear under WOT or i have not been able to get anyone to do it. The computer keeps it from doing that.


Mine does. It is tuned though. Dunno what all the tuner did.
__________________

01 SS Rally Red A4 #4987, 04 Yukon XL Denali, 99 Cadillac STS-SOLD

Last edited by 01ssreda4; 09-29-2009 at 03:57 PM..
01ssreda4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 10:44 PM   #7
11 Second Club
 
FiFdYnUtz's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 12
Join Date: May 2007
Location: central Iowa
Posts: 650
Send a message via AIM to FiFdYnUtz Send a message via MSN to FiFdYnUtz
Default

thats not a good idea imo...
__________________
FiFdYnUtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 02:21 PM   #8
TECH Apprentice
 
twinturbo496's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiFdYnUtz View Post
thats not a good idea imo...
do you mean with a 4l60e, 80e or just in general to run 4 gears at the track?
twinturbo496 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 02:23 PM   #9
11 Second Club
 
FiFdYnUtz's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 12
Join Date: May 2007
Location: central Iowa
Posts: 650
Send a message via AIM to FiFdYnUtz Send a message via MSN to FiFdYnUtz
Default

in general, overdrive was not meant to see WOT or any amount of load/power imo..im not saying you cant do it because anyone thats done a speed run has but its not good for the transmission...
__________________
FiFdYnUtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 02:38 PM   #10
10 Second Club
 
tals7's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: se mich(pluto)
Posts: 401
Smile

like others have said you want to go through the traps in third.i have hit od in 4l85e going through the traps but yes it slows you down.just optimize your gear/wheel tire combo to go thru in 3rd gear.
__________________
2002 ta LS7 gear star 4l85e s-60/not full weight any more.
tals7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009, 03:16 PM   #11
11 Second Club
 
382ssz28's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 21
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Detroit, Mi.
Posts: 580
Default

I question the quest to be in OD thru the traps, (I'm thinking MPH?). OD is good for 2 things-gas mileage and top speed, (well beyond the 1320' mark). The trans has to be modified to hold in OD with the HP and Torque you are making as it was not designed to hold high HP and Torque. The advantage of the 60-65E is the 3.06 first gear. Tune for the end of the 1/4 approx 50-100RPM before your HP Peak in high gear-(3rd).
__________________
02 SS Ragtop-382-4L75E-Vig4000-Dana60-4.10-BMR Extreme front to rear-Strange shocks, driveshaft-Kooks 1 7/8" X 3"-Mufflex 4"-ETP Stage 2-FAST 55lb inj,92MM intake-Nick Williams 90 t/b-SLP sfi balancer,oil pump, smooth bellows, billet chain & gears,air intake-Comp Cams, pushrods,XER 281 cam,belt tensioner-Diamond,coated pistons,Callies crank,rods-ARP studs-DM Perf girdle-NX Gemini 2-NANO-Rev can-Innovate-Racetronix 255-HP Tuner MPVI PRO 486 RWHP-455RWT N/A
382ssz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009, 09:44 PM   #12
TECH Apprentice
 
twinturbo496's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 318
Default

My hot rod has a 4l80e. It only has a 2.48 first gear, and a .75 OD, but on the good side it has a bigger OD setup, and probably can handle more power than the typical OD of a 60e

Just to match the launch gear reduction of a 4l60E with 3.73 gears, my car needs to have 4.60 gears in back, but my motor doesn't like going past 7000 rpm, so if I stay in third I can only run about 125 (the same mph as I have now with 3.50 gears in back running out in third @ 5200).

My car runs 11.05 as is, and I would really like to get into the 10's
twinturbo496 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009, 10:00 PM   #13
On The Tree
 
RapidRick's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 11
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: seFl.byWayOfBklyn
Posts: 179
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WS6er View Post
a 60e trans will not shift into forth gear under WOT or i have not been able to get anyone to do it. The computer keeps it from doing that.
My Bird has been Tuned. Has just about a 26" Tall DR (315/35x17), 3.73 Gear, and runs it's best et's left in D.

It shifts about 100' or so before the 1/4 mile stripe.
I have about 65-70 1/4 mile Runs on it. Left in 3rd only, lowered et's about .05 and 1 MPH.
__________________
'02-C5Z,bigger motor,4.10's,etc-'01 FORMULA (Bracket raced & in the11's)~GONE.'98T/A4,WS9,~GONE
RapidRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2009, 12:28 AM   #14
TECH Junkie
 
kinglt-1's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 15
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ft. Wayne, IN
Posts: 3,851
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WS6er View Post
a 60e trans will not shift into forth gear under WOT or i have not been able to get anyone to do it. The computer keeps it from doing that.
Mine shifts into 4th at wot...Transgo shift kit ftw!
__________________

[2002 Z28 A4] [1SC/1SZ Stripper] [17k mi] [3300lbs]
kinglt-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 01:06 PM   #15
11 Second Club
 
382ssz28's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 21
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Detroit, Mi.
Posts: 580
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturbo496 View Post
My hot rod has a 4l80e. It only has a 2.48 first gear, and a .75 OD, but on the good side it has a bigger OD setup, and probably can handle more power than the typical OD of a 60e

Just to match the launch gear reduction of a 4l60E with 3.73 gears, my car needs to have 4.60 gears in back, but my motor doesn't like going past 7000 rpm, so if I stay in third I can only run about 125 (the same mph as I have now with 3.50 gears in back running out in third @ 5200).

My car runs 11.05 as is, and I would really like to get into the 10's
What exactly are you running? What curve is does your engine have-HP&Torque? Weight, tire size, etc. We can't help wo/info. Can you remove weight? 100lbs is a tenth-10.95.
__________________
02 SS Ragtop-382-4L75E-Vig4000-Dana60-4.10-BMR Extreme front to rear-Strange shocks, driveshaft-Kooks 1 7/8" X 3"-Mufflex 4"-ETP Stage 2-FAST 55lb inj,92MM intake-Nick Williams 90 t/b-SLP sfi balancer,oil pump, smooth bellows, billet chain & gears,air intake-Comp Cams, pushrods,XER 281 cam,belt tensioner-Diamond,coated pistons,Callies crank,rods-ARP studs-DM Perf girdle-NX Gemini 2-NANO-Rev can-Innovate-Racetronix 255-HP Tuner MPVI PRO 486 RWHP-455RWT N/A
382ssz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 12:16 PM   #16
TECH Apprentice
 
twinturbo496's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 318
Default

Last night ran 10.62 @ 127 in third, then 2 runs 10.80 @ 123 in OD, converter not locked.

More specs: 496 bbc, .620 roller, 8-71 (12 psi), solid roller, 4L80E, hacked stock converter (stalls around 4000), used slicks 28x10.5 @ 12 psi, 9" with 3.50 ratio & spool.
Chopped 46 ford coupe, 3800# with driver.

I am not a very good driver, my launch isn't really sorted out, I just let it idle (900 rpm) until the last yellow is on then let off the brake an smash the gas. The car spins off the line, and then spins again (more) when I go into second gear.

I only put it on a chassis dyno one time,
510 hp@5800,
580 torque@3800

The Air/Fuel on the dyno was 10:1 above 5000 rpm, since then I have made some changes to the carbs (two 750 AFB's)

Car #845F, but don't look if you are going to make fun of my R/T
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Drag Times.pdf (194.9 KB, 69 views)
twinturbo496 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 05:28 PM   #17
11 Second Club
 
382ssz28's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 21
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Detroit, Mi.
Posts: 580
Default

Was 5800RPM your HP peak or was that the best the dyno operator got that day? You can lean down the A/F above 5000RPM. Do you have an A/F gauge like Innovate or Autometer? You can do the jet changes yourself at the track to attain the correct A/F ratio. This should add a fair amount of HP and Torque alone, according to the rich A/F ratio. You will also have some suspension work to leave better: firmer rear suspension and dual adjustable front shocks, if not equipped. I assume you have a cage. When you get maximum traction, the motor will be "loaded" correctly to get your true A/F ratio. You will also be able to attain the best timing. You may be in the 9's from what I can see. Basically, you have a 400 w/OD. Forget about the OD. Tune to the first 3 gears, 2.48, 1.48, 1-1. Maybe add a 3.89-4.10 gear to reach your HP peak thru the traps. You have alot left in her. This tuning, (lots of passes), will also make you a much better driver before you know it. Down the road, get a purpose built converter-less rotating mass on the back of the crank. Try leaving at 1800-2200RPM as not to puddle fuel on top of the pistons-no hesitation or hic-ups. Your best air is here (Canadian). Good Luck.
__________________
02 SS Ragtop-382-4L75E-Vig4000-Dana60-4.10-BMR Extreme front to rear-Strange shocks, driveshaft-Kooks 1 7/8" X 3"-Mufflex 4"-ETP Stage 2-FAST 55lb inj,92MM intake-Nick Williams 90 t/b-SLP sfi balancer,oil pump, smooth bellows, billet chain & gears,air intake-Comp Cams, pushrods,XER 281 cam,belt tensioner-Diamond,coated pistons,Callies crank,rods-ARP studs-DM Perf girdle-NX Gemini 2-NANO-Rev can-Innovate-Racetronix 255-HP Tuner MPVI PRO 486 RWHP-455RWT N/A
382ssz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 06:08 PM   #18
10 Second Club
 
tals7's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: se mich(pluto)
Posts: 401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 382ssz28 View Post
Was 5800RPM your HP peak or was that the best the dyno operator got that day? You can lean down the A/F above 5000RPM. Do you have an A/F gauge like Innovate or Autometer? You can do the jet changes yourself at the track to attain the correct A/F ratio. This should add a fair amount of HP and Torque alone, according to the rich A/F ratio. You will also have some suspension work to leave better: firmer rear suspension and dual adjustable front shocks, if not equipped. I assume you have a cage. When you get maximum traction, the motor will be "loaded" correctly to get your true A/F ratio. You will also be able to attain the best timing. You may be in the 9's from what I can see. Basically, you have a 400 w/OD. Forget about the OD. Tune to the first 3 gears, 2.48, 1.48, 1-1. Maybe add a 3.89-4.10 gear to reach your HP peak thru the traps. You have alot left in her. This tuning, (lots of passes), will also make you a much better driver before you know it. Down the road, get a purpose built converter-less rotating mass on the back of the crank. Try leaving at 1800-2200RPM as not to puddle fuel on top of the pistons-no hesitation or hic-ups. Your best air is here (Canadian). Good Luck.
sorry not trying to mess up thread or change subject but where in detroit are you from(city)?.i am in plymouth.your car sounds cool.
__________________
2002 ta LS7 gear star 4l85e s-60/not full weight any more.
tals7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 09:42 AM   #19
11 Second Club
 
382ssz28's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 21
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Detroit, Mi.
Posts: 580
Default

Garden City. Unfortunately, I sold the car, and others, to relocate. I am currently looking at another right now for a "street" turbo project. I will design it for long term street and track use, without the huge $$ parts. But, with good quality parts that will survive going to work, weekend or occasional pounding, and serious track use, with out gasket problems, parts breakage, and petty crap. The technology is here and getting better. The convertible was WAY TOO HEAVY!! 4231lbs with me in it. This will hopefully be in the 3300-3500lb range, and somewhere in the upper 9's. Maybe we can get together and BS a bit.
__________________
02 SS Ragtop-382-4L75E-Vig4000-Dana60-4.10-BMR Extreme front to rear-Strange shocks, driveshaft-Kooks 1 7/8" X 3"-Mufflex 4"-ETP Stage 2-FAST 55lb inj,92MM intake-Nick Williams 90 t/b-SLP sfi balancer,oil pump, smooth bellows, billet chain & gears,air intake-Comp Cams, pushrods,XER 281 cam,belt tensioner-Diamond,coated pistons,Callies crank,rods-ARP studs-DM Perf girdle-NX Gemini 2-NANO-Rev can-Innovate-Racetronix 255-HP Tuner MPVI PRO 486 RWHP-455RWT N/A
382ssz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 04:02 PM   #20
10 Second Club
 
tals7's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: se mich(pluto)
Posts: 401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 382ssz28 View Post
Garden City. Unfortunately, I sold the car, and others, to relocate. I am currently looking at another right now for a "street" turbo project. I will design it for long term street and track use, without the huge $$ parts. But, with good quality parts that will survive going to work, weekend or occasional pounding, and serious track use, with out gasket problems, parts breakage, and petty crap. The technology is here and getting better. The convertible was WAY TOO HEAVY!! 4231lbs with me in it. This will hopefully be in the 3300-3500lb range, and somewhere in the upper 9's. Maybe we can get together and BS a bit.
wow sounds good.we are close i would like to talk to you and take you for a ride in my 9sec street ta.
__________________
2002 ta LS7 gear star 4l85e s-60/not full weight any more.
tals7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 04:02 PM
LS1Tech
Pontiac Firebird




Paid Advertisement
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Want to know the Effect of Changing Gear Ratios? Look Here First! Ragtop 99 Gears & Axles 165 09-13-2014 06:14 AM
A4 GTO rear gearing Blakester60 Gears & Axles 1 12-25-2013 08:31 PM
need a gear calculator JRracing Drag Racing Tech 4 01-29-2013 07:02 PM
Anybody running a 4:10 rear end?? randytj Gears & Axles 18 06-08-2011 10:55 AM
lower gear to overcome low stall speed....make any sense? JeRM82 Drag Racing Tech 4 01-25-2008 11:00 PM


Tags
100lbs, 14, 2007, 2009, 4th, a4, gear, issues, ls1tech, mi, shift, silverado, tenth, trucks, wont, wot


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



Join Ls1Tech

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Service - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - JOBS
Emails & Contact Details