4L80E with Transbrake?
06-21-2010, 09:28 PM
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4L80E with Transbrake? Ok guys... I have heard different things about this. Lately I have heard that many of the builders out there are going away from offering Trans-brake's for a 4L80E due to stability issues.
I really want the launch capability of a Transbrake but want the overdrive of the 4L80E...
Input? Thoughts? Anyone running a 4L80E with Transbrake with 1k RWHP?
I really want the launch capability of a Transbrake but want the overdrive of the 4L80E...
Input? Thoughts? Anyone running a 4L80E with Transbrake with 1k RWHP?
06-22-2010, 04:26 PM
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Ok... I am wearing out the search button here as well as some google. Rossler makes a TB and TCI does as well...
Lots of complaints of Rossler's being slow to release (up to a second)...
TCI has some good initial review's but I can't find anyone using one for a real report...
There seems to be "another" solution that a member here has discovered, but havent looked deeply into that yet.
What concerns me most is that I am running and will be running 1000+RWHP... I need a TB that can handel some boost on the line... and not frag the trans.
Guys? Anyone have experience with TB's on 4L80E's with my HP or more??
Lots of complaints of Rossler's being slow to release (up to a second)...
TCI has some good initial review's but I can't find anyone using one for a real report...
There seems to be "another" solution that a member here has discovered, but havent looked deeply into that yet.
What concerns me most is that I am running and will be running 1000+RWHP... I need a TB that can handel some boost on the line... and not frag the trans.
Guys? Anyone have experience with TB's on 4L80E's with my HP or more??
06-22-2010, 06:43 PM
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Have you guys heard issues with this causing failure in the trans?
What about speed? What kind of kit do you use and does it tree well? (I have heard of Jakeshoe's but know little about it)
What about speed? What kind of kit do you use and does it tree well? (I have heard of Jakeshoe's but know little about it)
06-22-2010, 08:02 PM
#6
4L80E transbrakes...
To be blunt I developed my transbrake because I felt the rest of the offerings on the market left something to be desired (if they even worked...).
I've tested Rossler's. It works. To be totally fair to Carl I have not tested his Pro version. I bought the Gen III version for a customer and then the customer couldn't use the deep pan required with Rossler's brake, so we pulled it off.
The regular Gen III version had what I would consider a VERY slow release.
My understanding is the Pro version is MUCH better but I've been told it's still not pro-tree release time.
I tried the Trinity brake. It was an utter failure. To have been designed by someone who is/was supposedly a Hydramatic engineer it was a POS. Why anyone would use torque signal to function the brake, I don't know.
Concept was a good idea, execution was junk, and it cost me thousands of dollars.
I've tried others, they worked. They seemed to have "quirks", lazy shifts, unpredictable release time, etc.
My design is simple, it does not use any external manifolds to make it happen. The fluid path for release is short and fairly large. It does not alter the normal shifting of the trans (neither does Rossler's), so no oddball issues.
It doesn't require a deep pan.
A transbrake is a racing device. It does add strain to the trans and especially to the drivetrain/suspension behind the trans.
I recommend adding a billet forward hub to ANY TH400 or 4L80E that a transbrake is installed on. It's not mandatory but it's good insurance.
On a 4L80E I like to install a billet input shaft as well. These seem to be hit or miss. Some stock shafts live at 1000+, some break in 600 HP combos. My "number" for a new input is ~750 HP/TQ, transbrake and N2O combos need it sooner.
The direct clutches need a hydraulic change and a bleed hole needs to be drilled in the drum for better release, so the trans needs to be disassembled for proper installation.
To be blunt I developed my transbrake because I felt the rest of the offerings on the market left something to be desired (if they even worked...).
I've tested Rossler's. It works. To be totally fair to Carl I have not tested his Pro version. I bought the Gen III version for a customer and then the customer couldn't use the deep pan required with Rossler's brake, so we pulled it off.
The regular Gen III version had what I would consider a VERY slow release.
My understanding is the Pro version is MUCH better but I've been told it's still not pro-tree release time.
I tried the Trinity brake. It was an utter failure. To have been designed by someone who is/was supposedly a Hydramatic engineer it was a POS. Why anyone would use torque signal to function the brake, I don't know.
Concept was a good idea, execution was junk, and it cost me thousands of dollars.
I've tried others, they worked. They seemed to have "quirks", lazy shifts, unpredictable release time, etc.
My design is simple, it does not use any external manifolds to make it happen. The fluid path for release is short and fairly large. It does not alter the normal shifting of the trans (neither does Rossler's), so no oddball issues.
It doesn't require a deep pan.
A transbrake is a racing device. It does add strain to the trans and especially to the drivetrain/suspension behind the trans.
I recommend adding a billet forward hub to ANY TH400 or 4L80E that a transbrake is installed on. It's not mandatory but it's good insurance.
On a 4L80E I like to install a billet input shaft as well. These seem to be hit or miss. Some stock shafts live at 1000+, some break in 600 HP combos. My "number" for a new input is ~750 HP/TQ, transbrake and N2O combos need it sooner.
The direct clutches need a hydraulic change and a bleed hole needs to be drilled in the drum for better release, so the trans needs to be disassembled for proper installation.
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06-23-2010, 12:32 PM
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Jake that is great info... are you building these "one off" or actully producing them for sale. I undersand you arent a sponsor at this time so I wont ask too much.
What about the TCI TB? Anyone have any experience?
What about the TCI TB? Anyone have any experience?
06-25-2010, 07:54 AM
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I installed a TCI transbrake in my 4L80 several monthes ago and I have been very satisfied. It has quick firm shifts and the brake releases perfectly. After several thousand miles of driving and many mid 11 second passes at the track I couldn't be happier. Oh and there is nothing like having an OD in your Hot Rod.
06-27-2010, 10:37 PM
#12
I called them on Friday. No answer. We've got several of the units out there in operation without issue, so the testing phase is complete as far as I'm concerned. I am sending them out to all the notable performance shops to try out. I'm confident enough that once they try them, they will prefer them over the other options.
06-28-2010, 11:24 PM
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I have a rossler that I feel is slow as hell. on both the release and engage.
as for how well it leaves, I think that sucks also(but have a feeling it is most likely my stall
)
as for how well it leaves, I think that sucks also(but have a feeling it is most likely my stall
)
06-29-2010, 12:02 AM
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depanding on the core cost I'll give it a shot. Would be nice to cut some sub .1xx lights coming off a T-brake :/
When I bought mine, Rossler was the only one on the market. Any more info on yours besides what is listed above?
How is the engage time? Can I use it in OD(Guessing this is some sort of wiring deal with rosslers. Not sure if there is a reason they don't want you to use it on OD, But When spraying a big shot and running out of gear, I much rather it shift then bounch off the limiter)
When I bought mine, Rossler was the only one on the market. Any more info on yours besides what is listed above?
How is the engage time? Can I use it in OD(Guessing this is some sort of wiring deal with rosslers. Not sure if there is a reason they don't want you to use it on OD, But When spraying a big shot and running out of gear, I much rather it shift then bounch off the limiter)
06-29-2010, 01:01 AM
#16
depanding on the core cost I'll give it a shot. Would be nice to cut some sub .1xx lights coming off a T-brake :/
When I bought mine, Rossler was the only one on the market. Any more info on yours besides what is listed above?
How is the engage time? Can I use it in OD(Guessing this is some sort of wiring deal with rosslers. Not sure if there is a reason they don't want you to use it on OD, But When spraying a big shot and running out of gear, I much rather it shift then bounch off the limiter)
When I bought mine, Rossler was the only one on the market. Any more info on yours besides what is listed above?
How is the engage time? Can I use it in OD(Guessing this is some sort of wiring deal with rosslers. Not sure if there is a reason they don't want you to use it on OD, But When spraying a big shot and running out of gear, I much rather it shift then bounch off the limiter)
It sets very quick. Less than a second.
Once you come off the brake you can shift to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th either manually or setup the shifter to make a 1-3 or 1-4 shift and let the PCM shift the trans.
I'm pretty sure Rossler wants it in 3rd gear so the overrun clutches are supporting the OD sprag, which is a smart move. I've never taken the time to really look at how he did his circuits. I've still got the one we took off in a box in the shop. $600 paperweight at this point. Since he is doing it in manual 3rd, it must be taking PRND4-3 oil and splitting it to go to the low servo and 3rd clutches at the same time. Quite a volume of oil at low pump speeds.
I would have to look at it, but I can probably tell you how to make the Rossler setup quicker.
The internal mods that you do to install a Rossler unit are the same as most transbrakes including mine.
Bleed hole in the direct drum for faster release and to prevent centrifugal apply. Heavier springs for the same reasons.
Internal hydraulic changes to "dual feed" the direct clutches.
The pressure regulator parts that Rossler provides with his setup will work with my setup.
So no major disassembly would be needed to swap from the Rossler. VB removal, and some changes at the servo.
07-18-2022, 08:36 PM
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Would like more info 4L80E transbrakes...
To be blunt I developed my transbrake because I felt the rest of the offerings on the market left something to be desired (if they even worked...).
I've tested Rossler's. It works. To be totally fair to Carl I have not tested his Pro version. I bought the Gen III version for a customer and then the customer couldn't use the deep pan required with Rossler's brake, so we pulled it off.
The regular Gen III version had what I would consider a VERY slow release.
My understanding is the Pro version is MUCH better but I've been told it's still not pro-tree release time.
I tried the Trinity brake. It was an utter failure. To have been designed by someone who is/was supposedly a Hydramatic engineer it was a POS. Why anyone would use torque signal to function the brake, I don't know.
Concept was a good idea, execution was junk, and it cost me thousands of dollars.
I've tried others, they worked. They seemed to have "quirks", lazy shifts, unpredictable release time, etc.
My design is simple, it does not use any external manifolds to make it happen. The fluid path for release is short and fairly large. It does not alter the normal shifting of the trans (neither does Rossler's), so no oddball issues.
It doesn't require a deep pan.
A transbrake is a racing device. It does add strain to the trans and especially to the drivetrain/suspension behind the trans.
I recommend adding a billet forward hub to ANY TH400 or 4L80E that a transbrake is installed on. It's not mandatory but it's good insurance.
On a 4L80E I like to install a billet input shaft as well. These seem to be hit or miss. Some stock shafts live at 1000+, some break in 600 HP combos. My "number" for a new input is ~750 HP/TQ, transbrake and N2O combos need it sooner.
The direct clutches need a hydraulic change and a bleed hole needs to be drilled in the drum for better release, so the trans needs to be disassembled for proper installation.
To be blunt I developed my transbrake because I felt the rest of the offerings on the market left something to be desired (if they even worked...).
I've tested Rossler's. It works. To be totally fair to Carl I have not tested his Pro version. I bought the Gen III version for a customer and then the customer couldn't use the deep pan required with Rossler's brake, so we pulled it off.
The regular Gen III version had what I would consider a VERY slow release.
My understanding is the Pro version is MUCH better but I've been told it's still not pro-tree release time.
I tried the Trinity brake. It was an utter failure. To have been designed by someone who is/was supposedly a Hydramatic engineer it was a POS. Why anyone would use torque signal to function the brake, I don't know.
Concept was a good idea, execution was junk, and it cost me thousands of dollars.
I've tried others, they worked. They seemed to have "quirks", lazy shifts, unpredictable release time, etc.
My design is simple, it does not use any external manifolds to make it happen. The fluid path for release is short and fairly large. It does not alter the normal shifting of the trans (neither does Rossler's), so no oddball issues.
It doesn't require a deep pan.
A transbrake is a racing device. It does add strain to the trans and especially to the drivetrain/suspension behind the trans.
I recommend adding a billet forward hub to ANY TH400 or 4L80E that a transbrake is installed on. It's not mandatory but it's good insurance.
On a 4L80E I like to install a billet input shaft as well. These seem to be hit or miss. Some stock shafts live at 1000+, some break in 600 HP combos. My "number" for a new input is ~750 HP/TQ, transbrake and N2O combos need it sooner.
The direct clutches need a hydraulic change and a bleed hole needs to be drilled in the drum for better release, so the trans needs to be disassembled for proper installation.
