Why do most guys here swap in 4L80E's?
03-07-2011, 10:24 PM
#1
Why do most guys here swap in 4L80E's? I searched like crazy but found nothing useful. So I want to know at what point is a 4L80 really necessary and what the pros and cons are. The reason I ask is because I have a 5.3 in my 95 s10 that im wrapping up my single turbo setup on and the stock 4L65 I have in it now is gonna be doomed once I get this thing all dialed in. I was thinking about just buying a performance built 4L60 from FLT or RPM but those are a little steep for my budget right now. Then I seen everyone is putting 80Es in their f bodys and I seen that theyre reasonably affordable too and can hold much more torque stock than a 60 can. My main concerns are: The added weight of the 80e. how much more do they weigh than the 60? Parasitic loss, if i'ts anything like a TH400 its gotta be a power hog, if so is it noticeable? Electronics, are they hard to convert over from 60 wiring? Finally how much can a 80 take with simple mods like a servo and shift kit before it reaches it's limits. Im just feeling around to see if this is the right route for me. Any input is appreciated. Thanks
03-07-2011, 10:57 PM
#3
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I searched like crazy but found nothing useful. So I want to know at what point is a 4L80 really necessary and what the pros and cons are. The reason I ask is because I have a 5.3 in my 95 s10 that im wrapping up my single turbo setup on and the stock 4L65 I have in it now is gonna be doomed once I get this thing all dialed in. I was thinking about just buying a performance built 4L60 from FLT or RPM but those are a little steep for my budget right now. Then I seen everyone is putting 80Es in their f bodys and I seen that theyre reasonably affordable too and can hold much more torque stock than a 60 can. My main concerns are: The added weight of the 80e. how much more do they weigh than the 60? Parasitic loss, if i'ts anything like a TH400 its gotta be a power hog, if so is it noticeable? Electronics, are they hard to convert over from 60 wiring? Finally how much can a 80 take with simple mods like a servo and shift kit before it reaches it's limits. Im just feeling around to see if this is the right route for me. Any input is appreciated. Thanks
03-07-2011, 11:01 PM
#5
I went with an 80 after I broke my 60 for the 2nd time. There was no point for me to get a well built 60 that might be able to handle the power than an 80 that will be able to handle the power.. I've heard stock 80s can handle somewhere around the 700 hp mark, I can be wrong.. My 80 is being installed, so as soon as I take it to the track I'll be able to see myself how much it actually affected my car. I'd rather get track times to compare than dyno numbers.. Sure it adds more weight, but I like the piece of mind that it can take pretty much everything that I will be throwing at it, to a certain extent of course..
I would think it would be within .2 though
is the stall speed the same?
03-08-2011, 10:22 AM
#7
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This.....and by the way OP, "everyone" isn't running 80s. I wouldn't want that trans in my car. They do not hold 700 hp stock. They have to be built to take abuse like anything else. And, if they were so great stock, we would all be pulling them out of junkyards and not wasting money on built 60s.
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03-08-2011, 12:03 PM
#8
This.....and by the way OP, "everyone" isn't running 80s. I wouldn't want that trans in my car. They do not hold 700 hp stock. They have to be built to take abuse like anything else. And, if they were so great stock, we would all be pulling them out of junkyards and not wasting money on built 60s.
03-08-2011, 12:15 PM
#9
They are really good stock. Lots of guys pulling low milers from junkyards and running them with turbo builds. Im running a bone stock one with 600rwhp with perfect shifting and no problems. Plenty of people have success with the 60's but if your going above 600rwhp dont waste your time. This is my opinion.
I am running 10.2 @ 132 with the 60e, seems strong, I still do not have all the good parts, If i were to guess the weak link in mine, it would be the output shaft, but you can get a 4l70e output that is very strong, or a billet output, but they are a bit pricey. I would think my 60e will take me into the 9's if i get the output shaft and hardened drum... I'd rather have the lighter 60e if i can make it work, and so far I have.
03-08-2011, 12:16 PM
#10
The 60 rated to 360lbs of torque stock. A standard LS1 does that all day long. A simple gear upgrade or converter will put it outside its factory specs as far as what its putting down RWP. Horsepower really isnt a factor, its the torque that kills the 60. The 80 is about 50lbs heavier and has a taller 1st gear and also has better servos. I'd take a stock 80 over a built 60 any day of the week..
03-08-2011, 12:20 PM
#11
A lot of guys turn to the 4L80e after being burnt by local transmission builders taking their money time and time again rebuilding their 4L60e with stock parts and claiming them to be "built". We see it on nearly daily basis, guys being told they are getting "built" units only to bake them and send them to us and we open them up and find stock junk. It is really sad to see all these people dumping their hard earned cash and getting hosed. Transmissions are like anything else, you get what you pay for. You might save a few hundred by going to a local builder. But after he rebuilds it 2-3 times you are well over the price of a solid built unit from a known transmission builder. The 4L80e is a great transmission but they can use some upgrades as well. The 4L80e swaps usually end up running pretty darn close to the cost of a built 4L60e. My best advise is to spend your time reading the best info you can find and make your final decision according to what suits you best.
03-08-2011, 12:26 PM
#12
The 60 rated to 360lbs of torque stock. A standard LS1 does that all day long. A simple gear upgrade or converter will put it outside its factory specs as far as what its putting down RWP. Horsepower really isnt a factor, its the torque that kills the 60. The 80 is about 50lbs heavier and has a taller 1st gear and also has better servos. I'd take a stock 80 over a built 60 any day of the week..
Where did you get your 360ftlb rating from? The breakdown I read on GM transmissions was, 4- number of forward gears, L-longitudinally mounted, 60-torque capacity minus one "0", and E-electronic.
03-08-2011, 12:32 PM
#13
3.059 1.625 1.000 0.696 2.29 4L60-E
The THM700 was renamed "4L60" (RPO M30) following the new General Motors naming convention, when the electronic version, 4L60-E, was phased in. This happened in 1993 for trucks, vans, and SUVs, and 1994 for rear wheel drive passenger cars. 1993-95 production 4L60-Es look similar to non-electronic 4L60s (including the 700R4) with the absence of a governor and throttle valve cable; an electronic plug was positioned where the TV cable once stood. Around 1996, a bolt-on bell housing was phased in (along with a six-bolt tailhousing) when the transmission was bolted behind an inline four cylinder or the Vortec engine family.
The 4L60-E is rated to handle up to 360 ft·lbf (488 N·m) of torque.
The 4L60-E family of transmissions use 2 shift solenoids, initially called Shift Solenoid A & Shift Solenoid B, later changed to comply with OBD II (On Board Diagnostics revision 2) regulations to 1-2 Shift Solenoid & 2-3 Shift solenoid. By activating and deactivating the solenoids in a predetermined pattern by the PCM, 4 specific gear ratios can be achieved. The shift solenoid pattern, also sometimes referred to as solenoid firing order is as follows;
Shift Solenoid Pattern
THE 4L80E IS RATED AT 440ft/lbs rating stock
both articles say "up to" that rating... so im assuming your pushing red straight from factory.. but i AM NOT a professional tranny guy, I assume you are so I'm not gonna measure dicks with you... I was just going by what I have read...
The THM700 was renamed "4L60" (RPO M30) following the new General Motors naming convention, when the electronic version, 4L60-E, was phased in. This happened in 1993 for trucks, vans, and SUVs, and 1994 for rear wheel drive passenger cars. 1993-95 production 4L60-Es look similar to non-electronic 4L60s (including the 700R4) with the absence of a governor and throttle valve cable; an electronic plug was positioned where the TV cable once stood. Around 1996, a bolt-on bell housing was phased in (along with a six-bolt tailhousing) when the transmission was bolted behind an inline four cylinder or the Vortec engine family.
The 4L60-E is rated to handle up to 360 ft·lbf (488 N·m) of torque.
The 4L60-E family of transmissions use 2 shift solenoids, initially called Shift Solenoid A & Shift Solenoid B, later changed to comply with OBD II (On Board Diagnostics revision 2) regulations to 1-2 Shift Solenoid & 2-3 Shift solenoid. By activating and deactivating the solenoids in a predetermined pattern by the PCM, 4 specific gear ratios can be achieved. The shift solenoid pattern, also sometimes referred to as solenoid firing order is as follows;
Shift Solenoid Pattern
THE 4L80E IS RATED AT 440ft/lbs rating stock
both articles say "up to" that rating... so im assuming your pushing red straight from factory.. but i AM NOT a professional tranny guy, I assume you are so I'm not gonna measure dicks with you... I was just going by what I have read...
Last edited by ANTICOP RAM AIR; 03-08-2011 at 12:38 PM.
03-08-2011, 12:43 PM
#14
I don't generally believe everything I read on wiki but all the other information is correct in the artical. I guess the information I read befor was incorrect. If we are going with factory torque ratings the 4L80e isn't "that" much better with 440ftlbs lol. We are putting over 800ftlbs through 4L60e transmissions consistantly without issue. I and definitely not saying the 4L60e is stronger than a 4L80e but a built 4L60e IS better than a stock 4L80e.
03-08-2011, 02:18 PM
#17
and for you guys thinking of swapping,, its not just a pull out and stick in.. yokes are different, drive shaft lengths are different, controllers, gearing etc.. i believe the flywheel is different but im not sure... thats why you can get a built (supposedly) 60 for the cost of an 80 swap...
03-08-2011, 03:01 PM
#18
and for you guys thinking of swapping,, its not just a pull out and stick in.. yokes are different, drive shaft lengths are different, controllers, gearing etc.. i believe the flywheel is different but im not sure... thats why you can get a built (supposedly) 60 for the cost of an 80 swap...
03-08-2011, 03:20 PM
#19
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Go check out the truck side of the forum... Almost everyone who runs, well actually uses there built 60, or 65 for what it is built for has broken it. Hence the swap to the 80.
03-08-2011, 03:31 PM
#20
I like how I can rag the **** out of my 80, come off the transbrake like bat out of hell, drive normal down the highway and it never even hiccups.. I have yet to meet someone who has gone from a 60 to an 80 and not been happy, but I'm sure there are a few out there..