welding torque arm bracket to truck tranny?
04-17-2011, 09:51 PM
#1
welding torque arm bracket to truck tranny? Hi, I have a built 4l60e out of a truck (4.8/5.3) and I am planning on putting it behind my turbo 4.8 going in an 89 camaro. The truck transmission doesnt have a torque arm bracket... has anyone ever just tig welded the appropriate bracket on the tail housing? I figured this would be cheaper and easier to get an exact bracket position than buying a f-body tail housing (which has been hard for me to come by for cheap). and this way I can just fab one up identical to the 700r4 bracket... any thoughts? Orrr I could go with a 4 point suspension in the back..... Lemme know what you guys think.
04-17-2011, 10:21 PM
#2
I've built a few 3rd Gen F-Bodies and found that the best solution for the torque arm mount is to remove it from the transmission. I've fabricated the torque arm brackets that mount to the body for my own vehicles. There are plenty of companies that offer this as well...Madman, Spohn, BMR, etc. I'd advise against eliminating the torque arm for a 4 link system. The torque arm suspension is very effective. Good Luck!
04-17-2011, 10:26 PM
#3
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I don't think that will work due to the fact that one is made of aluminum and the other is steel. The housing is really not the issue here. Its the adapter to go from a 6 bolt case to a 4 bolt tail. Those 4 bolt fbody housings are a dime a dozen as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure I can get my hands on one if you really want one. Personally I would look into relocating the torque arm and go from there. Vince
04-17-2011, 10:58 PM
#4
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First of all you can't weld aluminum to steel. Second the case of the transmission is likely cast, and very porous, and would not be suitable to weld on. Third, the heat would likely distort the tail too much if you did accomplish it. Those are way too big of hurdles to overcome and are not worth the headache IMO. I understand budgets, but, save until you can do it right. An f body tail and bracket shouldn't cost more then $150 on the used market. A relocation cross-member should run you about $225. Either is a very good option for you.
04-18-2011, 09:25 PM
#5
Yeah I am not looking to spend more than 30 dollars on a tail shaft. I Just paid 900 to have it built and I don't plan on spending much more. Furthermore, I guess I could go to a junk yard and pick one up. I know the 6 bolt ones are harder to find and I don't even know if they would separate the tail shaft housing. Also, if I change the tail shaft housing, do I need to replace any seals, etc? And I plan on fabbing up a cross member. No need to spend 225 dollars on something that could be easily made or altered to work.
04-18-2011, 11:35 PM
#6
You could do it, but if you're going to pay someone to TIG weld it for you, it will probably be more expensive than buying a used tail housing.
The fact that it's a casting probably isn't a deal-breaker. To start with, get the piece really clean - it's very important. Get the heavy stuff off using whatever you want, and then put it in your dishwasher (with dishwasher detergent) and run it on a hot wash and heated dry cycle. That's going to be the best way to get the part clean and free of solvents, etc. (I did this for my used cast aluminum oil pan and it worked great.)
Also, make sure your design is smart. The welds will likely be stronger than the tail housing material, so make sure your design allows a lot of welding between the tail shaft and the bracket. Long welds running the length of the bracket and tail housing will be better than a small weld on a small island where the two parts touch.
You're not going to warp it or distort it if you're careful. People (generally) warp things TIG welding when they work too fast. Do small sections at a time. Give the piece time to cool in between welds. Stay away from the mating surfaces if you can. Do that, and there will be no warping.
Is this the right one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-02...Q5fAccessories
The fact that it's a casting probably isn't a deal-breaker. To start with, get the piece really clean - it's very important. Get the heavy stuff off using whatever you want, and then put it in your dishwasher (with dishwasher detergent) and run it on a hot wash and heated dry cycle. That's going to be the best way to get the part clean and free of solvents, etc. (I did this for my used cast aluminum oil pan and it worked great.)
Also, make sure your design is smart. The welds will likely be stronger than the tail housing material, so make sure your design allows a lot of welding between the tail shaft and the bracket. Long welds running the length of the bracket and tail housing will be better than a small weld on a small island where the two parts touch.
You're not going to warp it or distort it if you're careful. People (generally) warp things TIG welding when they work too fast. Do small sections at a time. Give the piece time to cool in between welds. Stay away from the mating surfaces if you can. Do that, and there will be no warping.
Is this the right one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-02...Q5fAccessories
04-19-2011, 05:46 AM
#7
FastKat- thanks for the response! I am steering away from the welding the housing though just because I dont want to risk messing anything up.
Yes that's it! It must have been just listed recently because I was looking on eBay a little while ago.
Thanks
Yes that's it! It must have been just listed recently because I was looking on eBay a little while ago.
Thanks
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04-19-2011, 08:46 AM
#8
Just buy a transmission crossmember with torque arm relocation brackets from BMR. (You can buy this same piece through us). It's the easiest solution to your problem, that I know of. They're reasonably priced as well. If you're interested, please feel free to call me @ 225-772-1062.
04-19-2011, 05:46 PM
#10
You could do it, but if you're going to pay someone to TIG weld it for you, it will probably be more expensive than buying a used tail housing.
The fact that it's a casting probably isn't a deal-breaker. To start with, get the piece really clean - it's very important. Get the heavy stuff off using whatever you want, and then put it in your dishwasher (with dishwasher detergent) and run it on a hot wash and heated dry cycle. That's going to be the best way to get the part clean and free of solvents, etc. (I did this for my used cast aluminum oil pan and it worked great.)
Also, make sure your design is smart. The welds will likely be stronger than the tail housing material, so make sure your design allows a lot of welding between the tail shaft and the bracket. Long welds running the length of the bracket and tail housing will be better than a small weld on a small island where the two parts touch.
You're not going to warp it or distort it if you're careful. People (generally) warp things TIG welding when they work too fast. Do small sections at a time. Give the piece time to cool in between welds. Stay away from the mating surfaces if you can. Do that, and there will be no warping.
Is this the right one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-02...Q5fAccessories
The fact that it's a casting probably isn't a deal-breaker. To start with, get the piece really clean - it's very important. Get the heavy stuff off using whatever you want, and then put it in your dishwasher (with dishwasher detergent) and run it on a hot wash and heated dry cycle. That's going to be the best way to get the part clean and free of solvents, etc. (I did this for my used cast aluminum oil pan and it worked great.)
Also, make sure your design is smart. The welds will likely be stronger than the tail housing material, so make sure your design allows a lot of welding between the tail shaft and the bracket. Long welds running the length of the bracket and tail housing will be better than a small weld on a small island where the two parts touch.
You're not going to warp it or distort it if you're careful. People (generally) warp things TIG welding when they work too fast. Do small sections at a time. Give the piece time to cool in between welds. Stay away from the mating surfaces if you can. Do that, and there will be no warping.
Is this the right one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-02...Q5fAccessories
04-19-2011, 06:00 PM
#11
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He didn't actually say "aluminum to steel". Maybe he was meaning a bracket of aluminum for the steel bracket to bolt to. Although for that trouble i'd just buy a stock tail and be done with it.
04-19-2011, 07:23 PM
#12
It was already established in the thread (by 01ssreda4) that you can't weld steel to aluminum... I didn't think I needed to repeat it. Now it's on the thread 4 times, so I don't think anybody can miss it.
I disagree. Maybe I wasn't really clear though... when I mean take your time, I don't mean dwell on the welds. I mean do some welding and set the part aside to cool. This worked very well on my cast aluminum oil pan which has has very long and narrow gasket surfaces. It also worked on a damaged Honda intake manifold, which required a lot of material to fill some holes. One part of the intake manifold was about the same size as a tail housing, so I think it's comparable. All of these parts were castings. They seated and sealed with no problems.
I could see your way working well if you're only doing a small amount of welding on a given piece, but I don't think that would apply here. For this application, you need a lot of contact area between the housing and the aluminum mounts that you weld onto the housing. This would required a pretty good amount of welding to get the desired strength out of the finished product.
I could see your way working well if you're only doing a small amount of welding on a given piece, but I don't think that would apply here. For this application, you need a lot of contact area between the housing and the aluminum mounts that you weld onto the housing. This would required a pretty good amount of welding to get the desired strength out of the finished product.
04-20-2011, 07:08 AM
#14
It was already established in the thread (by 01ssreda4) that you can't weld steel to aluminum... I didn't think I needed to repeat it. Now it's on the thread 4 times, so I don't think anybody can miss it.
I disagree. Maybe I wasn't really clear though... when I mean take your time, I don't mean dwell on the welds. I mean do some welding and set the part aside to cool. This worked very well on my cast aluminum oil pan which has has very long and narrow gasket surfaces. It also worked on a damaged Honda intake manifold, which required a lot of material to fill some holes. One part of the intake manifold was about the same size as a tail housing, so I think it's comparable. All of these parts were castings. They seated and sealed with no problems.
I could see your way working well if you're only doing a small amount of welding on a given piece, but I don't think that would apply here. For this application, you need a lot of contact area between the housing and the aluminum mounts that you weld onto the housing. This would required a pretty good amount of welding to get the desired strength out of the finished product.
I disagree. Maybe I wasn't really clear though... when I mean take your time, I don't mean dwell on the welds. I mean do some welding and set the part aside to cool. This worked very well on my cast aluminum oil pan which has has very long and narrow gasket surfaces. It also worked on a damaged Honda intake manifold, which required a lot of material to fill some holes. One part of the intake manifold was about the same size as a tail housing, so I think it's comparable. All of these parts were castings. They seated and sealed with no problems.
I could see your way working well if you're only doing a small amount of welding on a given piece, but I don't think that would apply here. For this application, you need a lot of contact area between the housing and the aluminum mounts that you weld onto the housing. This would required a pretty good amount of welding to get the desired strength out of the finished product.
Well I also disagree with your opinion, in that you keep heating and cooling that aluminum part and it will move alot, just in little steps. If you really want aluminum to not move it has to be jigged in a fixture about with about 10x the mass of the part. I have repaired HUNDREDS of tailshaft housings, bell housings and such, It's all done hot and fast.
I do this all day, every day.... From building 40+ ft trailers to repairing trans cases, to building tuna towers. I'll really throw some fuel on the fire, by saying I also do alot of aluminum (thick castings) on DC - /helium.
04-20-2011, 02:34 PM
#15
I generally stop welding and set the part aside before it gets too hot, so it doesn't move/warp/etc. It takes longer, but I am more comfortable doing it that way, and I think it's safer, too.
Using a jig is always a great idea if you're willing to invest the time. I was going to suggest clamping the part to a table or maybe even leaving it on the transmission, as this would help keep the mating surface square and bleed off some heat.
Is it possible that both your way and my way would work?
Using a jig is always a great idea if you're willing to invest the time. I was going to suggest clamping the part to a table or maybe even leaving it on the transmission, as this would help keep the mating surface square and bleed off some heat.
Is it possible that both your way and my way would work?
Well I also disagree with your opinion, in that you keep heating and cooling that aluminum part and it will move alot, just in little steps. If you really want aluminum to not move it has to be jigged in a fixture about with about 10x the mass of the part. I have repaired HUNDREDS of tailshaft housings, bell housings and such, It's all done hot and fast.
I do this all day, every day.... From building 40+ ft trailers to repairing trans cases, to building tuna towers. I'll really throw some fuel on the fire, by saying I also do alot of aluminum (thick castings) on DC - /helium.
I do this all day, every day.... From building 40+ ft trailers to repairing trans cases, to building tuna towers. I'll really throw some fuel on the fire, by saying I also do alot of aluminum (thick castings) on DC - /helium.
