auto_gto

most People like one and hate the other I kind of like the altos since (and I am not sure at all) mti or tci uses them (again I think I heard that please don’t flame me) so what do you guys think


btw I need them for a performance overhaul

pewter-peiter

iTrader: (8)

i'd go with the z-pack clutches. i just put them in my car about 2 weeks ago. no problems at all. they're supposed to be better than both blue or red clutches. i also hear that they hold up low 11 to high 10 second times.

Colonel

The Altos are a little better for a street driven car, IMO. The Blues are a bit more prone to glazing over in street conditions (repeated stop and go type driving.) Blues are great for a track warrior though. And don't get me wrong, the Blues are REALLY good.

jfm

iTrader: (4)

My trans will be done tonight,I went with the Z pack.

offaxis

iTrader: (19)

Ive been running the z-pak for a couple months now. And yes they do hold low 11 sec times and 10 sec power. I have plenty of all out passes on these between street and strip and 10 dyno pulls.

Sunset01

Just putting a local built 4l60e back in my car and got the z-pak too, based on the builder's recommendation. Blue plates were never in the running due to mostly street use. Also considered 'red devil'(?)clutches

PunkNPonys

iTrader: (2)

Where do you buy this z-pak from? What is the cost?

Sunset01

It is a newer Raybestos product.

http://www.transtarindustries.com/

Not sure if they sell to individuals.
I don't think the sponsors sell trans components, so ok for providing link?
http://www.bulkpart.com has some of the best prices, not sure if they have this.

auto_gto

from which sponsor can i get the z-pack

btw thanks PontiacFan english is not my first Language

PontiacFan

iTrader: (104)

"Which", ...

pewter-peiter

iTrader: (8)

hey punknponys u live in corpus christi, then u can get them at rayco transmission parts off of spid. right behind the Greatstate Transmission shop. i really don't remember how much the regular price is though cause i bought them through a friends discount.

Hit Man X

Well there are upsides and down sides to them both.

Alto makes a great product but they are thinner... .063 vs .074 I think. So you're not as resistant to heat as the thicker clutches. But there's far more friction area on them (I believe they are full faced and not waved) and below the surface so that does help with heat dissipation too. They're a great product and IMO comparable to the Blue Plates now that I've done more research on them both.

Raybestos Blues have been around for a while too. They grip like crazy and hold up very well under high loads. I ran these in a vehicle with a PI stall and they worked great. You typically gain one additional clutch with these over stock (well even with BW tans you can). It's really a tossup what to go with.

Remember next to heat buildup, trans failure is usually due to slop internally, poor builder/half assed job, or endplay problems. Well that's of course if you aren't grenading hardparts like input drums, reaction shells, shafts, etc.

Hope that helps too...

Colonel

Right, 6 blues are like 8 reds...but you have 9 reds in the 3-4 clutchpack where you only have 6 blues. That's one reason that I give the advantage to the reds. The other is the glazing issue under street conditions that I've been told about.

Anyway, you really can't go wrong with either. They're both superior to just about anything else on the market, IMO.

Colonel

"Remember next to heat buildup, trans failure is usually due to slop internally, poor builder/half assed job, or endplay problems. Well that's of course if you aren't grenading hardparts like input drums, reaction shells, shafts, etc."

Amen to that! I think most people think put too much emphasis on the parts instead of the builder. Those parts don't mean squat if the clearances aren't right and if the install is at all dirty.

jfm

iTrader: (4)

I have to agree that the builder is 95% and parts are 5%.

Here is the rundown on the Raybestos ZPak-holds 20% more torque than stock,increased heat resistance and uses 14 single sided friction discs.

Sunset01

20% more than stock doesn't sound all that fantastic. Any quoted #s for the blue plates or others ? It seem very clear though- don't use blue plates on a street car.

Hit Man X

Has anyone tried to build up the input drum w/o overruns? I'm not totally sure on their purpose in the 4L60E. None of the other trannies I've been around (mostly Ford) seem to have them other than this model. If they were gone it'd seem to have the ability to run a higher clutch capacity.

Hrm... interesting that Raybestos Z-pak is all single sided. Alto does that for their Allison 5 speed kits in the Duramax trucks too in the HO rebuild setup.

And to the post that just came in my mail box... I'd run the Ray Blues on the street again. I don't think you're going to feel much different than the 9 pack of Reds. The Reds are a great setup and have a very different paper+backing. They are not as bad as you think. When you are talking about some big power levels the 4L60E isn't a trans that's going to be very durable for more than a few years at a time without rebuild/refreshing. It was never designed (the 700R4 is the basis) for an all out race tranny. Also, you should be able to easily find clutches to hold a specific setup of power...but internals is a WHOLE other story.

Also the stall converter you choose plays a fairly decent factor in how hard your trans shifts and ultimately lasts. Insane shift are best left to the 'Glide, 727, TH400, C6, etc. With the 4L60E and it's POS aluminum input drum, keep them quick and firm without sacraficing durability b/c you think it's cool to bark the tires at 2500rpms...

Sunset01

The issue with blues on the street is that they can glaze and then what good is all that potential holding power- I guess they kind of 'need' to be heated up/abused to be maintained.

I posted in another thread how my z28's 4l60e lost 2/4 band & glazed the input drum with just minor bolt ons, though due to removal of torque management..

Not sure what you mean by keep the shifts short and quick, not barking them at 2500rpm... wouldn't short/quick shifts lead to barking? ie. all the danger in using ls1edit to shorten desired shift time being dangerous...

Anyway, I am trying to decide if my new power and built trans can handle zero torque management... Converter should help that.

Hit Man X

Some of your info is incorrect... the reasoning is off on these trannies.

Your bolt-ons didn't make the trans die faster...it's not built for performance from the factory. TqMgt is a Band-Aid fix. The main problem is there is a lack of fluid flow to the internals, GM knows this but would rather TqMgt than to fix it right. It's designed to break...it drives the aftermarket.

I have NO TqMgt in my heavyass Z71...5300lbs. Trans is still in good shape as I have stated in some other threads on here. I have the full TransGo PSK in there and both billet servos. Been w/o TqMgt for about 6 months... remember what it does is not only pull timing but dump line pressure at the shift...slow shifts up top is bad. I don't have tons of mods, but it's not stock either. I am not worried one bit about the trans until my brother gets it and we stick a cam + 6.0 in there.

You need to ride in a few properly built trannies. They should not break the tires loose at 2500rpms. If they do, they won't last...at the shift point, that is different. I WILL lay money on that, espically with the 4L60E. You can set it up to be insane then ****+moan that it fell apart as the shifts are too hard. Stuff stress fractures, splines on parts get ripped apart, etc.

LS1 lowering shift time should also not effect the trans drastically. Fluid flow (cools everything) would almost always dictate what is to last and to die. DO NOT bump line pressure via Edit. Keep it at OE levels. Bump line pressure internally with the TransGo or Sonnax boost valve. Then adjust shift firmness accordingly via the seperator plate depending on the stall converter you have. This is all documented in TransGo install instructions. You do not want full race shifts on a stock trans with a stock stall. You must be sensible with this stuff.

My 2¢ again.

Sunset01

Thanks. I wasn't thinking when you said 2500rpm shifts-- agreed, don't want if firm like that at part throttle. My trans was rebuilt with all Sonnax valve body parts. Putting it in tonight and expect good things. Staying with no torque mgmt and totally stock tranny tables otherwise.