How should a 4L80E be built to handle 1200hp?
03-09-2012, 09:12 PM
#1
How should a 4L80E be built to handle 1200hp? Got into a bit of a bind. I sent a late model 4L80E off to a builder. He tore it down, gave me a quote to build it to handle my 3.3L Whipple blower at 18psi (30psi capable according to Whipple) on top of my 427 LS based motor. It's now complete, but no chromo or hardened shafts? He claims it will hold, but non specific warranty information, won't tell me what's in it and basically said:
"I’m sorry we got off on the wrong foot. But I stand behind everything I do. Drive it as hard as you want. It’s the combination of parts and technology that makes it work. I worked in Middle East for 21 years. If they can’t kill it with twin turbos,4wd ,120 degrees and sand. I hope I can make you happy."
And
"I’m sure you find some car builders do it different than you. You have a 3 year warranty drive it as hard as you can. And it will holdup. Transmission is ready"
I've asked repeatedly how it was built. When I ordered it, I asked for 300M shafts and a 300M Forward clutch hub. I find it has none of it.
His paperwork has a warranty disclaimer: "Any aftermarket programming will void warranty". This entire truck will be tuned.
Did I just waste a 300.00 late model core?
"I’m sorry we got off on the wrong foot. But I stand behind everything I do. Drive it as hard as you want. It’s the combination of parts and technology that makes it work. I worked in Middle East for 21 years. If they can’t kill it with twin turbos,4wd ,120 degrees and sand. I hope I can make you happy."
And
"I’m sure you find some car builders do it different than you. You have a 3 year warranty drive it as hard as you can. And it will holdup. Transmission is ready"
I've asked repeatedly how it was built. When I ordered it, I asked for 300M shafts and a 300M Forward clutch hub. I find it has none of it.
His paperwork has a warranty disclaimer: "Any aftermarket programming will void warranty". This entire truck will be tuned.
Did I just waste a 300.00 late model core?
Last edited by Grendel; 03-09-2012 at 09:32 PM.
03-09-2012, 09:57 PM
#2
Well I was going to say that since there's a 3 year warranty, might as well go with it and let him realize his mistakes after you send it back to him several times for various problems, but now it seems he's kind of got you by the ***** with that bit about the aftermarket programming. It seems a little vague to me, is he referring to just the transmission or the entire car?
1200 hp is what he honestly says it will hold? How much power are you planning to be pushing out? There is basically no chance that that transmission will hold 1200 on stock shafts. That kind of power level typically necessitates a fair amount of billet parts internally, such as the input shaft, forward hub and intermediate hub. The stock input shaft in an 80e has been broken before in completely bone stock applications before, i.e. a truck that was towing something. To be quite honest, 1200 hp is well within the range where a 36 element "Super Drum" is to be highly considered.
Do not trust a builder who will withhold everything about the transmission's internal parts and modifications. There is a huge difference between a company that withholds proprietary information, such as a company who has spent many hours researching and developing and studying different combinations and parts and hydraulic modifications, and a company that won't tell you a damn thing about what is done to it. For all you could know, it could just be a stock rebuild with an off-the-shelf shift kit.
If the builder won't tell you about the parts he put in it, ask him what hydraulic modifications he did, and that's assuming he did any.
Sorry to say it, I really am because it sucks, but it's definitely looking like it might be turning into a wasted core.
1200 hp is what he honestly says it will hold? How much power are you planning to be pushing out? There is basically no chance that that transmission will hold 1200 on stock shafts. That kind of power level typically necessitates a fair amount of billet parts internally, such as the input shaft, forward hub and intermediate hub. The stock input shaft in an 80e has been broken before in completely bone stock applications before, i.e. a truck that was towing something. To be quite honest, 1200 hp is well within the range where a 36 element "Super Drum" is to be highly considered.
Do not trust a builder who will withhold everything about the transmission's internal parts and modifications. There is a huge difference between a company that withholds proprietary information, such as a company who has spent many hours researching and developing and studying different combinations and parts and hydraulic modifications, and a company that won't tell you a damn thing about what is done to it. For all you could know, it could just be a stock rebuild with an off-the-shelf shift kit.
If the builder won't tell you about the parts he put in it, ask him what hydraulic modifications he did, and that's assuming he did any.
Sorry to say it, I really am because it sucks, but it's definitely looking like it might be turning into a wasted core.
03-09-2012, 10:12 PM
#4
I thought that for a moment as well, then I assumed perhaps the tuner was referring to any tuning that might effect the transmission itself, e.g. shift points, tuning for a stall, etc. I'm honestly not sure, which to me is yet another reason to be wary of this builder. A 3 year warranty would be fantastic, definitely an industry first as far as I know, but what good is it if you void it just to get your car running properly?
03-10-2012, 07:56 AM
#5
Yes, he said it was built to hold 1200hp. I am guesstimating I will be around 800-1K.
His words are 3 year warranty, but his invoice says any modifications to the tuning of the truck would void the warranty.
Heh, should I ask him for my late model core back?
After doing quite a bit of searching, it appears they have a history of doing this. I wish I had searched before sending the core, but I had a friend who had really great results.
Oh well.
His words are 3 year warranty, but his invoice says any modifications to the tuning of the truck would void the warranty.
Heh, should I ask him for my late model core back?
After doing quite a bit of searching, it appears they have a history of doing this. I wish I had searched before sending the core, but I had a friend who had really great results.
Oh well.
Last edited by Grendel; 03-10-2012 at 09:02 AM.
03-14-2012, 10:58 PM
#6
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Stock input shaft under boost will break in the 600-700hp range.. or rather 500-600lb'ft' range.. and thats pro high.. Forward clutch hub is rated about 100lb'ft' more.. after that your looking at an intermediate shaft, straight cut gear set or 6 pinion helical gear set, 34elemnt sprag which is stock in most 4l80e's.. over 1,000 you should upgrade to a super drum with a 36 element sprag and a billet sun gear shaft... also use an early overdrive in your late shell..
03-15-2012, 12:08 AM
#7
Stock input shaft under boost will break in the 600-700hp range.. or rather 500-600lb'ft' range.. and thats pro high.. Forward clutch hub is rated about 100lb'ft' more.. after that your looking at an intermediate shaft, straight cut gear set or 6 pinion helical gear set, 34elemnt sprag which is stock in most 4l80e's.. over 1,000 you should upgrade to a super drum with a 36 element sprag and a billet sun gear shaft... also use an early overdrive in your late shell..
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03-15-2012, 09:36 AM
#9
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Perhaps the sun gear shaft is unnecessary however they have broke in the past and are a good piece of mind for $190.00
If he's willing to give you a core back then go that route. If the transmission he sold you is brand new rebuilt you should be able to tear it down and see whats in it. What did he charge you? The price should be an indication of weather of not he actually put hard parts in it or not.. I have 1,800 in shafts and hard parts for my 4l80e that's not including the soft parts (clutches, bands, seals, and shift kit)
If he's willing to give you a core back then go that route. If the transmission he sold you is brand new rebuilt you should be able to tear it down and see whats in it. What did he charge you? The price should be an indication of weather of not he actually put hard parts in it or not.. I have 1,800 in shafts and hard parts for my 4l80e that's not including the soft parts (clutches, bands, seals, and shift kit)
03-15-2012, 09:56 AM
#10
Perhaps the sun gear shaft is unnecessary however they have broke in the past and are a good piece of mind for $190.00
If he's willing to give you a core back then go that route. If the transmission he sold you is brand new rebuilt you should be able to tear it down and see whats in it. What did he charge you? The price should be an indication of weather of not he actually put hard parts in it or not.. I have 1,800 in shafts and hard parts for my 4l80e that's not including the soft parts (clutches, bands, seals, and shift kit)
If he's willing to give you a core back then go that route. If the transmission he sold you is brand new rebuilt you should be able to tear it down and see whats in it. What did he charge you? The price should be an indication of weather of not he actually put hard parts in it or not.. I have 1,800 in shafts and hard parts for my 4l80e that's not including the soft parts (clutches, bands, seals, and shift kit)
03-15-2012, 10:28 AM
#11
Perhaps the sun gear shaft is unnecessary however they have broke in the past and are a good piece of mind for $190.00
If he's willing to give you a core back then go that route. If the transmission he sold you is brand new rebuilt you should be able to tear it down and see whats in it. What did he charge you? The price should be an indication of weather of not he actually put hard parts in it or not.. I have 1,800 in shafts and hard parts for my 4l80e that's not including the soft parts (clutches, bands, seals, and shift kit)
If he's willing to give you a core back then go that route. If the transmission he sold you is brand new rebuilt you should be able to tear it down and see whats in it. What did he charge you? The price should be an indication of weather of not he actually put hard parts in it or not.. I have 1,800 in shafts and hard parts for my 4l80e that's not including the soft parts (clutches, bands, seals, and shift kit)
03-15-2012, 07:56 PM
#13
Got into a bit of a bind. I sent a late model 4L80E off to a builder. He tore it down, gave me a quote to build it to handle my 3.3L Whipple blower at 18psi (30psi capable according to Whipple) on top of my 427 LS based motor. It's now complete, but no chromo or hardened shafts? He claims it will hold, but non specific warranty information, won't tell me what's in it and basically said:
"I’m sorry we got off on the wrong foot. But I stand behind everything I do. Drive it as hard as you want. It’s the combination of parts and technology that makes it work. I worked in Middle East for 21 years. If they can’t kill it with twin turbos,4wd ,120 degrees and sand. I hope I can make you happy."
And
"I’m sure you find some car builders do it different than you. You have a 3 year warranty drive it as hard as you can. And it will holdup. Transmission is ready"
I've asked repeatedly how it was built. When I ordered it, I asked for 300M shafts and a 300M Forward clutch hub. I find it has none of it.
His paperwork has a warranty disclaimer: "Any aftermarket programming will void warranty". This entire truck will be tuned.
Did I just waste a 300.00 late model core?
"I’m sorry we got off on the wrong foot. But I stand behind everything I do. Drive it as hard as you want. It’s the combination of parts and technology that makes it work. I worked in Middle East for 21 years. If they can’t kill it with twin turbos,4wd ,120 degrees and sand. I hope I can make you happy."
And
"I’m sure you find some car builders do it different than you. You have a 3 year warranty drive it as hard as you can. And it will holdup. Transmission is ready"
I've asked repeatedly how it was built. When I ordered it, I asked for 300M shafts and a 300M Forward clutch hub. I find it has none of it.
His paperwork has a warranty disclaimer: "Any aftermarket programming will void warranty". This entire truck will be tuned.
Did I just waste a 300.00 late model core?
Call Jake he will hook you up without all the BS!
03-16-2012, 10:28 AM
#16
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I personally have never broken one.. I have seen spline wear... I don't see why your opposing my added peace of mind? After all whats 190 bucks in a 2500+ transmission build?
03-16-2012, 01:51 PM
#18
Why spend $190 on something that rarely breaks (I've built thousands of TH400's and 4L80Es and I've NEVER seen or even heard of a broken one) even in 6 or 7 second 1/4 mile cars?
I'm all for putting in the proper components to make the unit live and have peace of mind. Overbuilding is great when the budget is there, but sometimes you just have to know when to call BS on some "upgrades".
