mjs1012

iTrader: (36)

I have a B&M 70264 and i was wandering if this will be large enough for an aftermarket converter. I will be putting in an ss3600 and flt trans soon and want to know if this cooler will work. thanks.

mjs1012

iTrader: (36)

forgot to add that ill be using it along with the stock one

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

get the biggest cooler you can and do not use the stock one with it...
all the stock one will do is heat up your fluid to 200+ degrees...

something with an 14,000 BTU rating or better (bigger #'s are better)

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

also, running two coolers...can cause a pressure issue that can cause premature failure of your transmission...

lt1-xjs

Never heard of such a thing, I've ran both coolers for over 7 years since my converter install. Still the original 19 year old trans.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

In CT? You'll be fine.

mjs1012

iTrader: (36)

Thanks 01ss. soundengineer do you have proof that using the stock one and an aftermarket cooler will cause heating and pressure issues? Like have you monitored temps or just going on a whim? Iv never heard of that happened. Not trying to be a smartass just looking for real world answers.

mikey67

Running an aftermarket cooler after the stock cooler has the benefit of bringing the transmission up to operating range more quickly than without.

I have heard when running 2 aftermarket coolers it is recommended to run them parallel as running them in series can cause potential pressure issues, but I have no direct experience with this.

mjs1012

iTrader: (36)

This might be a dumb question but can someone explain to me what the difference between running 2 coolers in a series and parallel are.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

I have watched in the HPT scanner and have personally seen the temps stay higher because of the stock cooler being in line after the aftermarket one...
I did not know that the customer had routed it that way when we first started tuning his car...
we swapped it around to just go thru the aftermarket cooler and we saw lower temperatures...

a friend of mine had a trans failure, and the builder told him it was because of pressure issues caused by having two coolers in line...
I have also heard of several other cases where pressure caused by multiple coolers has caused transmission failure..
I do not know the specific details about how it fails or what parts fail...I am not a trans builder.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

If I remember correctly somebody said its because of the drop in pressure that having 2 coolers in series can cause....pressure gets too low and trans eats itself from lack of proper lubrication...similar to how an engine eats itself when the oil pressure is too low..

mjs1012

iTrader: (36)

Ok thanks a lot for clearing that up man.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

The stock cooler should always be *before* the aftermarket, otherwise you'll see the temp stay up just like you witnessed. If you're going to use the stock cooler in addition to the aftermarket one, it should always go:

Fluid out of trans - fluid into stock cooler, out of stock cooler - fluid into aftermarket cooler, out of aftermarket cooler - fluid back to trans.

This will not be an issue if the "two coolers" include the stock one and an aftermarket one. If they are both larger aftermarket units then this might be a concern, but the stock cooler will not cause enough drop in pressure to be an issue when used in series with an aftermarket cooler. In fact, several of the aftermarket coolers even include a recommendation to use them in series with (after) the stock cooler.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

if you have to use the stock cooler in addition to the aftermarket one... then you are doing it wrong and should have just bought a better cooler to begin with...

all the stock one does is heat it up....
so you will be preheating it to cool it back down...pointless waste of energy...

buy a bigger cooler and do it right the first time...

while you say the pressure drop only happens with two bigger aftermarket coolers...my buddy that had the trans failure was using the stock one with a second aftermarket one...and the stock one was in line first on his car.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Stock cooler can still be effective when you're coolant temps are below ~200.

Lots of variables aren't being mentioned about this specific trans and failure here. I've had several transmissions hooked up this way without failure for years.

EDIT: I should mention that I've always used B&M stacked plate coolers in series with the stock cooler, and that I can't speak for the performance of other coolers used this way. I just looked up the paperwork that came with the last cooler I bought from them, and it stated the following:

"We recommend mounting your cooler in series with your present OEM cooler in the radiator tank." It also says eleswhere that, "B&M's SuperCooler low pressure drop coolers reduce the risk of lube system failure. A controlled amount of automatic transmission fluid is allowed to bypass the stacked plate core, passing through a self-regulating orifice, which monitors resistance to flow. Controlled by viscosity, the thicker ATF is returned directly to lube through two open bypass passeges positioned in the stacked plate core. As operating temperatures increase, more of the ATF flow is directed through the core. The result is a highly efficient cooling technology that combines improved protection against lube system failure with the required levels of optimal heat transfer."

So perhaps the stacked plate design flows well enough not to cause issues when used in series with the stock cooler. Perhaps this is not the case with other styles of cooler though. In my experience, using a B&M in series with the stock cooler has never caused a pressure related (or any premature) failure in the many applications where I have done this.

mikey67

This doesn't make sense. You're assumming an auto transmission generates less heat than your typical engine coolant temperature. Why would the oem's run transmission fluid through a cooler installed in the radiator if it would heat the fluid beyond their desired range?

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

the stock trans runs right around 200*~210*
the problem is that it is going thru the core in the radiator...
GM uses it in that location to help warm it up quickly to help with transmission life because most people do not allow their cars to warm up properly every time they get in the car...
I try not to drive a car until the trans fluid is above 100*F....
not such a hard task when the weather is warm...but if its cold outside....my car sits for quite some time before I drive it off into the cold...

and my TCI 6x runs around 165 all day long on hot days.....I've seen 190 when I'm running it hard at the track and hot lapping it.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

also, figure around 250 you start to cook the fluid and make it no longer useful....
so if you start with normal operating temps around 200.. you only have a short ways to go before you have burnt your trans fluid......
I'd rather see temps lower to start with and have some play room...especially of the car has a trans brake and you have to stand on it for any length of time at the track...

Lee12609

iTrader: (3)

sound engineer i have to respectfully disagree with you about quite a bit of things.

first the transmission fluid temperature you are seeing thats typically "200-210" remember that is AFTER the OEM cooler. have you ever checked the temperature of the fluid coming out of the torque converter after a hard run? i have and its a good bit warmer than you think.

secondly, blow air from your mouth across a metal rod thats 200° and check the temperature change. now stick that same 200° rod in 200° water and see which one has a greater effect on temperature drop. i have done a ton of testing on ATF and cooler configurations and i can tell you the OEM cooler does NOT warm the ATF at all on my silverado the OEM cooler dropped the fluid temp from 230° to 190°, this was checked via an inline temperature sensor (inlet to cooler straight from transmission) versus my snap on scanner transmission fluid temp sensor reading both being datalogged. adding an aftermarket cooler (hayden 667) the temperature of the fluid coming out the transmission was within a couple degrees of as without yet fluid temp measured by the TFTS was only 170°. this was punishing the truck each time i changed the setup, WOT first gear hold, decel back to near idle 3 times then WOT 1st through 2nd and hold, decel back to idle and allow to idle to save datalogs. i reality my car or truck would never be driven any harder than that so i was satisfied. this was done on a 92° day in South Carolina aswell, so it was plenty warm outside.

mrvedit

I'm inclined to agree with Lee12609. I currently am only using a very large trans cooler, but will soon change it to first run through the stock cooler and then the 2nd cooler. Importantly, my engine temp is rarely over 180F as that is the thermostat temperature and I have a very large radiator in my 2nd gen Camaro.
So, lets say my radiator is internally at 180F.
If my trans fluid is under 180F, then yes the radiator will heat it up, but at that low temperature, I don't really care. My trans cooler will of course drop it lower.
However, if my trans fluid is over 180F, then that is a concern and I want to get as much cooling as possible. The fluid to fluid cooling of the stock cooler is very effective, and by itself may drop the temperature to 180F; my trans cooler will then drop it much lower.
Of course if you are running a stock thermostat in the 220F range, then the argument may shift more in soundengineer's favor.