jmmcamaro2002

This is my first 4L60e transmission rebuilt and I have a few questions that I could not find the answer to searching the form. I am doing the rebuilt not to save money (although that would be nice), but rather to understand how it works better. As my 2002 Camaro is my daily drive, I bought a use 4l60e from a 1999 Camaro that had a burnt 3-4 clutch. I estimate I have an 80% chance of success on the first try. Taking it apart when well. It had the burnt 3-4 clutch as expected. It also had a torn over run clutch piston seal and the 1-2 upshift check ball was stuck in the space plate. I thought that I could just replace the seal on the piston, but it looks like it is fused onto the piston and that I would need to buy a new over run clutch piston with the seal. Is this correct? Also I need a new spacer plate. Should I just buy a stock plate or are there others plates that would help improve the shift.
Thanks
John

mrvedit

I would suggest a 4L65E rebuild kit that has new pistons. The only difference between a 4L60E and 4L65E rebuild kit is the latter has the 7-friction 3-4 clutch which you want; it only adds about $15 to the kit. Alternatively I suggest some complete performance kits and/or various 7 and 8 friction 3-4 clutch arrangements in these threads:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...-rite-kit.html Post #3

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...n-problem.html

Tools and more in these threads:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...ild-4l60e.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...gear-gone.html Post #6

I highly suggest a fully color building manual in post #4

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...n-rebuild.html

You can read the entire 186 post thread as I and a few others help him through his rebuild.

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Purchase the Transgo universal separator plate ($25) which covers '96 through '06. You drill a few holes larger according to your engine and/or whether you put in the Transgo or Sonnax shift kit.

Enjoy the experience.

jmmcamaro2002

Thanks for the information. I read most of those posts, multiple time, but I still get confused. A lot of moving parts. Is there a mild solution that I can use to clean off the parts?
John

mrvedit

I have a 5 gallon bucket of paint thinner with a metal basket that I use to clean parts. Then let them drip/shake dry and then really dry them with the air hose.
Auto shops sell the paint thinner.
The case and bell housing I take to my local trans shop for cleaning; not sure how that works, perhaps just a hot water spray while the parts turn.
DO NOT put the case in your dishwasher; there is a 2012 thread on the bad results, probably from the corrosive detergent.

jmmcamaro2002

I was looking at the video on installing the beast shell and it says you should grind down the lo/rev clutch race by about .035 to achieve the proper clearance. THe stock shell has a clearance of about .060 and the beast 0.025. However, I have never read this recommondation in all of my searches and a clearance of 0.025 seems reasonable. Should I grind down the race teeth to achieve a 0.06 clearance?
Thanks

jmmcamaro2002

I just started rebuilding the transmission and I am concern that I hear a grinding noise when I manually turn the reaction carrier assembly. Before I install the lo/rev clutches, the internal reaction gear and the carrier assembly turn freely on their bearings without any noise. I then install the clutches/plates, spring, and the lo/reverse clutch. Before I install the snap ring, I turn the reaction carrier assembly and I do not hear any noise. However, after I install the snap ring and turn the reaction carrier assembly I hear a grinding noise. I assume it the grinding of the clutches on the steel plates, but I have soaked them in ATF so why should they grind? If it is the grinding of the clutches on the steel plates, will this noise go away when I use the transmission? Or is there something wrong.

mrvedit

Even with all the frictions and snap ring installed, the only sound I hear turning things is a "shhhh" - like the librarian telling you to quiet down in the library.

Do you have the "GM Automatic Overdrive Transmission Builder's and Swapper's Guide? (If not get it ASAP). Page 40 shows how to test the low/reserve clearance.

Check the inner torrington bearing inside the lower planetary pinion.
Your did your rebuild kit include new torrington bearing?
Check the torrington bearing under the reaction carrier and under the pinion.

Perhaps one of the pro builders has other suggestions.

jmmcamaro2002

I took it apart again and the torrington bearing seem fine. It is also not the clutches because when I temporary left out the lo/rev race and turn the reaction carrier with the internal input gear you could hear the "shh". When I install the lo/rev race, which held the internal input gear more fixed, you then get a high pitch grind. Which makes my think it in the carrier assembly. However, the carrier assembly looks fine and is within specs. I hate to just start replacing parts without knowing what I am doing.
John

mrvedit

So, I assume you checked the torrington bearing inside the pinion - the bearing that you cannot remove.

Sorry, I don' t have the experience to help you further.

One of the pro builders will have to take it from here.

jmmcamaro2002

I was able to isolate the high pitch grinding noise to the lo/rev roller. It only makes the noise when the input gear is installed. I disassmbled the unit and the rollers and springs look fine. There is no evidence of wear. Even though I had extensively soak it in ATF. There was very little ATF between the rollers and springs, which I think was causing the noise. Do you think it is ok just to clean the unit and soak it in ATF before I reassemble it and then use it if it doesn't make noise, or should I just get a new lo/rev roller?
Thanks,
John

mrvedit

Glad you figured out where the noise was coming from.

I recall a thread 6 months ago where someone rebuild their own trans and it failed due reusing a worn low/reverse sprag. These parts are cheap, pulling the trans again is a pain. I would suggest always replacing "wear" parts like the sprags.

jlyke

since theres someone that knows about these i am also rebuilding mine for the second time now and i wanna know what that valve is in the case right behind the low/reverse apply it use to move now it dont and now i dont got reverse i mean i just rebuilt it and pulled the pan and valve body putting in a new boost valve i airchecked to make sure i didnt have leaks but it seems to me like if it moved when everything worked and now it dont that it could be a problem?

mrvedit

Welcome to the forum, but please don't hijack existing threads to ask your own questions. After clicking on "Automatic Transmission", click on "New Thread" to start a new thread and ask your question.
Hint: write complete sentences and not just a stream of consciousness as you did above. Paragraphs with no punctuation, bad grammar and/or horrible spelling will often just be ignored or attract snide comments. Thanks.
When you start your own thread, explain in more detail - there is no "valve" in the case, perhaps you meant the check-ball.

jlyke

sorry i was just a little confused and irritated about the my transmission.
i figured out what it is, its the accumulator bleed plug.

jmmcamaro2002

Ok, I finally got the main unit back together. It was a challenge. After I install the pump, I was able to turn the input shaft in both direction. However, I have absolutely no clearance (i.e., the input shaft will not go up or down). How much difference is there in the selective washers. My selective washer is 70 and my clearance was 0.02 before I took it apart. What selective washer number would I need now?
Thanks
John

mrvedit

Hmmm, my selective washer collection is in the .065 to .110 range.
First be sure you really have no clearance (I been fooled a few times). I assume your trans was assembled vertically (shafts up/down). Are you saying that even tightly grabbing the input shaft and lifting with 30-40lbs force, you feel no clearance?

If really no clearance...
Starting with lower clutch race, list exactly what kind of parts you have installed, e.g. whether they are washers or torrington bearings.
I assume above the race you have a thin washer underneath the sun shell, then the sun shell; list what you have above that. Primarily is it a washer or torrington bearing on top of the sun shell.

To help confirm things are assembled correctly try turning the output shaft in both directions. It will turn easily in one direction and about 3 times harder in the other direction.

You mentioned it was a challenge? What specifically?

jmmcamaro2002

My selective washer is a # 70, which is a thickness of 0.094-0.098.
Unfortunately, lifted up the input shaft with as much force as a I could muster (I am 62 and not very strong) without an effect. Starting above the race I have the following: black plastic washer on the bottom of the beast (I did not install the inner race washer), the beast, new shell washer in the beast, the input gear, new bearing, input carrier, input carrier thrust washer, input sun gear, then the input housing. Note, I had problems with the race/roller. I bought a new roller, but I am concern that it did not sit as nicely as it should have??

The output shaft only turns in one direction, unless I am too weak to turn in the other direction. It did turn in both direction, before I installed the input drum.

My challenges were springs and snap rings .

mrvedit

Oh, I forgot that the numbers are not the same as the size.
The selective washers are readily available as .070 (# 36???) and thicker. A local trans shop should have a collection. Bring your micrometer.
Total clearance of .015 is enough and will likely increase by about .005 as the new parts wear. I would keep the initial clearance between .015 to .025.

I put a vice grip on the output shaft to test turning it the "hard" way; in this direction the lower sprag is holding and forcing the sun shell and reverse drum to turn (maybe even the output side of the forward clutch).

Yep, spring can be a pain. A bought some additional snap ring pliers and ground them down to fit better.

carlsonauto

A lot of times the beast doesn't seat all the way on the rear sun gear during assy. because the splines are so tight. If you pick the whole trans up and gently kind of bounce it on the tailshaft on a piece of wood on the floor it will make sure everything is seated properly. (unless cluches are not splined correctly then it will bend clutches, probably too late at this point anyhow) If you used a teflon bushing on the inside of the stator support they fit very tight and can make end play checking a real pain (check at the tailshaft instead if thats the case). Also 99% of those transmissions have a #68 or #69 end play selective. They should be very easy to come by if you do actually need one. Also make sure when checking end play that there isnt anything pushing the tailshaft inward.

I think the noise that you mentioned before coming from the low roller clutch is normal. If it sounds like sort of a screech or a groan as you turn it then thats perfectly normal. If it was an actual bad grinding sound that isnt normal. They do make noise when free wheeling..

carlsonauto

I don't think you should even have the holes in the input carrier to install that thrust washer. That was an old 700R4 washer that they used with the old style input sprags. It shouldnt be necessary in your transmission. I did look at my ATSG and it is in there(pg 50 fig 78) so it's making me qustion myself. I am guessing they reused an old picture and forgot to remove that. I do work on 90% truck transmissions and there are some differences I have noticed between the trucks and cars but I am pretty certain that went away in all of them.