84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

alright I need somewhere to begin here....I just drove my 84 corvette with a 5.3 and 4l60e swap in it for the first time tonight. 1st and 2nd gear work perfect (as well as reverse). But when it shifts to 3rd and 4th (in hptuners it shows commanding shifts to those gears) it feels more like going into neutral....not a full neutral feeling but close... it has a tailshaft adapter from performance adapter with the reluctor ring I bolted on and the sensor that came with the adapter. I have that all wired up and according to HPtuners it is getting a vss signal and giving me a speed on the scanner. I have read about problems with vss causing this...as well as a host of other things.......it's a used transmission that as far as I know was working when pulled. The car has a 3200 stall and is using the stock truck pcm settings for the trans with the exception of WOT shift points. which I am not at full throttle when this is happening anyhow......any ideas on where to begin with this thing and what to look for???

mrvedit

Since you have HP Tuner's scanner you should be able to confirm whether the VSS is working properly. In any case, if the PCM commands 3rd gear, the trans should shift regardless of anything else. You can even force it with the scanner.

First, make sure the trans has enough fluid, which is checked with the engine running.
Next, I would hope it is only a shift solenoid. With the engine off in a quiet garage, ignition on, try command each gear. You should hear a good click as the shift solenoids change position. If you don't hear it on the 3rd gear, you have a bad solenoid or bad wiring (very rare case, a bad PCM).
Next, I would replace the shift solenoids anyway; you only need to drop the pan and they old cost $12 each.
If that doesn't do it, then the trans will need to be removed and repaired.

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

alrighty....so I got some more seat time in tonight... I checked for hearing the solenoids and I pretty much could never hear the #3 solenoid click....it has plenty of transmission fluid. it is right on the money in the dipstick. Here's what I noticed after driving it more tonight......1st and 2nd work fantastic still. you hit 3rd and at low throttle the car goes nowhere, you get it up in the rpm band and it'll start to accelerating....when you get to the top of 3rd it won't shift into 4th... under part or WOT. You let off the gas and it'll shift into 4th...... now 4th is the exact opposite. In low rpms it will accelerate and pull alright....when you get into the upper RPM's is when it feels like it starts to "slip" and then the car will just bounce off the rev limiter............I am guessing the trans needs replaced/rebuilt unless there is something electronic I am completely missing. I should have a video of what its doing shortly

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

Here is a video.... as you can see 3rd is pretty much useless....Takes a decent amount of throttle to just get it going.....4th starts out alright but then just seems to give up and then the car free revs and pings the rev limiter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgF-...ature=youtu.be

mrvedit

Hmmm, I'll have to try it again myself to determine how audible commanding 3rd is where both solenoids are off.

It sure doesn't sound good, but I don't have much real-world experience diagnosing problems.

Perhaps Frank (Performabuilt) or other pro trans builder will have a suggestion or confirm that it needs a rebuild.

Since you already have HP Tuners and presumably an interest in tuning and diagnosing, you might consider getting a trans pressure gauge. They are only about $40 on ebay and include a long enough hose to watch it while driving. This is very useful for diagnosing trans problems and even has some value for advanced trans tuning.

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

My next question would be... If the 3rd gear solenoid is broke.. Will that affect 4th gear also?

mrvedit

There are only two solenoids. Solenoid B is "on" in 1st and 2nd gears and "off" in 3rd and 4th. However solenoids can get stuck in the "on" position or somewhere in between. There are enough threads here of people saying 3rd/4th gear problem were fixed by replacing the solenoid, that I generally suggest doing that before pulling the trans. At $12 you might as well replace both solenoids; this also avoids replacing the wrong one.

Many builders replace the EPC (pressure control solenoid, also called PCS) just to be sure. Putting a pressure gauge on the trans can detect a defective EPC, but sometimes a marginal EPC is slow to increase pressure and will cause slippage during a WOT shift.
When replacing the shift solenoids, it takes maybe an extra 15 minutes to replace the EPC because you have to remove the 1-2 accumulator housing (3 bolts) and the one bolt for the EPC. This is a good time to inspect the 1-2 accumulator for a cracked piston, worn bore or broken spring.
If none of this helps, you can tell the trans rebuilder that you already replaced these parts and presumably get a credit for them.

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

Ok that makes more sense to me now... I can audibly hear the solenoid when changing between 2nd and 4th but when I engage 3rd from 1st or 2nd I hear nothing. I just know when my buddies clutch pack went out he had No gears at all where as on mine they are not completely gone and inverse of each other's problem

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

well I think I am pretty much out of ideas and testing.....judging by what I've see from every other post on a 4l60e is that the 3-4 clutch pack is probably toast and that's why this trans was in the salvage yard.....it just slips like crazy all over in 3rd and 4th... there will be certain rpm spot where it catches in the middle but anything under or over that rpm and theres nothing there....but even then its barely catching because 4th gear it is screaming at 70 mph......which it could drive and scream at that rpm in 2nd on a highway. Unless there's anything else anyone can think of I will probably just pull it tomorrow and re-build it myself or have someone rebuild it.

I am guessing if it was just a solenoid it just wouldn't shift and would most likely throw a code.....the only code it throws is the p0706 because I don't have the range sensor hooked up.

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

also what rebuild kit would you guys suggest for a budget.....This car isn't going to be seeing the drag strip (except maybe once to see what it runs) and it's main driving is going to be back and forth to work during the nice summer months on the highway....in other words, it's not going to be beat on like crazy all the time.

mrvedit

The most likely diagnosis from your 1st post was a worn out 3/4 clutch pack, but I try to cover other much-cheaper possibilities too.

Just a standard rebuild kit from ebay or a local trans shop will give you most of the parts. However, I would augment those with two items:
1. A 7 or 8 friction 3/4 clutch using BW HiEnergy or Raybestos GPZ frictions. If you want to save $60 on this, get a 4L65E rebuild kit; the only difference over a 4L60E rebuild kit is that it includes 7 frictions for the 3/4 clutch.
2. The Sonnax 4L60E-LB1 boost valve. This will increase line pressure across the board to give you firmer shifts and less slippage/wear during shifts.

I have repeatedly recommended Ebay seller TruTechTrans (also have a website). Call owner Jeff and he will put a custom rebuild kit together for you with those exact parts. All members that have bought from him have been very satisfied with quality and his support.

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

Well I'm workin on pulling this baby back on outta there... Here is a pic of the fluid and pan.... Looks like there is some black burnt clutch material in the fluid..... For only driving maybe 5 miles tops (that's being generous).... I wouldn't think it would be even this dirty.... I cleaned the pan very well before re installing when I put a new filter in before installing in the car

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

mrvedit

The trans and converter hold 11-12 quarts. A home "flush" typically only drains about 5 quarts; meaning that most of the fluid was not flushed.

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

Ya that would make sense....i am trying to remember what the fluid looked like when I first removed it. I think it was fairly dark but didn't have any metal bits/chunks that were very alarming.... ohh well..... she's out now on the rebuild bench and as soon as I get a kit here I will get on rebuilding it and post some pics and results! Ohhhhh how I can't wait to actually get out and drive this car... oh and a helpful note to anyone.....put some anti-seize or something on the locator dowels.....that would have made life much easier on me and I won't forget this time around lolol

mrvedit

It will help a lot to make a stand so that the input/output shafts are vertical. I made this on casters:



You will want to take off the tail housing for such a stand. A lot of fluid will come out when you tip the trans. Note my bucket
in the stand to catch the fluid that will drip for hours.

I have an entire photo album of disassembly steps:

http://s1015.photobucket.com/user/mr...%20Disassembly

Unfortunately they are in reverse order.

It can be a big challenge just to get the bell housing off. You will need a Torx T-55-PLUS bit. The "plus" designation is important, a plain T-55 does not fit well. Then you probably need a good 400+ ft/lb pneumatic air wrench with that special bit. Then assuming you have a stand like above, push down with a good 100 lbs before you hit the air wrench switch. Else you may strip the bolts and have to drill them out and they are grade 8+.

Follow my pictures and you can take much of the trans apart without special tools other than a variety of snap ring pliers. Getting out the forward, overrun and 3/4 pistons will require a special spring compressor as will the low/reverse clutch.

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

well I got in a hurry to get home tonight since my rebuild kit came in the mail and forgot to pickup the T55 bit .....but I went ahead and disassembled the valve body. I would say the clutches are most certainly smoked......there is quite a bit of burnt clutch sludge throughout the trans. When I pulled the servo out it had quite a bit of gunk in it. as well as the accumulator piston etc....I will get the T55 plus bit tomorrow and get the rest apart. On a positive note everything that I have taken apart and cleaned up looks to be in pretty good shape. I will hafta get some pictures of the build posted

mrvedit

Sounds like a good start.
One critical area that you will want to look at is the inside of the pump when you separate the halves. The area where the rotor runs sometimes gets scored enough to justify getting a new/better one.

84lsvette

iTrader: (3)

Soooo... Did they change up the bit sizes on these bolts at a certain year? I keep reading t55 plus but that is too big for the bolts in my trans...... Already getting bad vibes from this project... spent all lunch looking for the bit nobody had, had to drive 20 miles to meet up with the MAC truck guy and get home to no go....so disappointing.

But since I couldn't get anything else done I was going through inspecting some things like the separator plate and where the check ***** go etc. none of them were stuck and I have all 8 out of the transmission...the 7 from the valve body side and 1 by the accumulator. I looked and the check ball capsule for 3rd is in place down in the transmission.

BBBUUUTTTT isn't this supposed to be the check ball capsule for reverse here? if so....no ball......



What all would this be messing up (reverse worked fine when I pulled it)? how the heck could it not be there? and where would it go unless someone else had this apart at one time and lost it? The diagram I have with my kit says there are 2 ***** really close together for the the overrun, is that supposed to be correct? if not maybe I pulled this ball from the reverse capsule with a magnet and that's how I have 8 ***** out of the transmission. I don't remember now but I am sure I have all of the ***** that were there, which if there is only 1 for the overrun then one of these must have come from the reverse capsule

Suppose I will find out more when I get the rest of it apart.

mrvedit

S..T!!! It is a T-50 PLUS, not a T-55 PLUS. And this assumes a pre '08 trans.
Since that is my mistake, PM me what you spent on the T-55 and I will reimburse you. Or I can overnight the correct bit to you (I have a J-45737 in my hands now.) Let me know how I can make this up to you.

BTW - A thread where I assisted another member's rebuild might be of interest to you: https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...n-rebuild.html
The issue of the bell housing bolt size came in around post #59.

The "missing" reverse check ball is not an issue. Like most check *****, it slows down the engagement of the reverse clutches. Some people prefer a faster engagement of Reverse and the check ball is then simply removed. BTW - this reverse checkball is actually in a capsule and is not loose.