Paul Tinsley

Sorry this is a long, Im a newby and I need some advice thanks in advance for any help. I have an 02 ws6 and its had some work done to it, engine, trans, exhaust, suspension, and tires, from what I see with my untrained eye everything else is pretty much stock. When I got it the trans would drop in and out of 4th gear. Now the motor has a Magic stick MS3 cam, which should be true its got a big cam, and the trans that it has Im told is a Hughes not sure the model, but when I got the car it had a 3800 stall in it. I had a so called good mechanic in the 15000 pop. little town in KS do some work on and look at the shifting problem. he changed the shift solenoids in it and it was ok for a while, but he told me he did some research and told me that the trans was suggested to have no bigger stall than a 2800 and that was causing the problems. The problem came back and I lost 4th completely and overheated the trans. I took it to a highly recommended trans shop to have it looked at and it needed a rebuild. I told them that I needed a little advice because I don't know a lot about cars and I told them what the other mechanic told me about the stall in it being to big. The next day they called and asked about what cam was in it and I told them, they ended up putting a 2800 rpm stall in it. When I picked it up and they were going over the heavy duty parts they up graded and so on they told me that they researched the cam, which I think is from texas speed shop, that the cam suggested it should be a 3800 rpm and I guess that is why it was on the car. I asked if it was going to hurt anything that it now has a 2800 rpm and they said no that for a daily driver it was going to be ok, now they know from talking to me I have a lead foot and that I'm going to be hard on it sometimes. Everything was fine for a few weeks and now after everything gets warmed up when you shift from neutral to drive, or rev. to drive, I am getting a hard shift and you can here the linkage not liking and of it and today after 30 some miles on the highway at 70 and higher speeds but not getting on it that hard the trans was smoking when I got it home. Hope you make it this far now here is the 2 part question. Does this model 02 WS6 have a trans cooler, it looks like it does and is it big enough to do the job. The sticker that is supposed to on the door with the options is not there. Second question, Is the advice I got about the smaller stall being installed right is it going to hurt anything? I want to put the upgrades in the car to make it in the 10 sec club but a daily driver also, my wife, well she hates it. Hope some one can help... Thanks

mrvedit

First, NO stock car has a big enough trans cooler to support anything more than the stock converter. Everyone here installs an aftermarket cooler to either replace (bypass) or augment the stock cooler.
Once you do that, you can run any size stall you want - 2800 is great on the street, 3600 will give you better ETs at the drag strip.

Search for the many threads on coolers. While there is no consensus on whether it is better to put the aftermarket cooler after the stock cooler or bypass the stock cooler entirely, there is absolute consensus that every larger that stock stall needs an aftermarket cooler.

The is a current thread on trans coolers with exact part numbers:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...ns-cooler.html

Paul Tinsley

Thanks for the reply I ordered a cooler today. I just wish I would have gotten the right advice that the heat was causing the problems with the trans and not because the stall was to big. It had a 3800 in it because it was recommended by the cam, and now because of the advice I had them put the 2800 in it, it is noticeably different even for a newbie like me. Im learning but thats a hit to the pocket, now with a smaller stall than was recommended by the cam builder is it going to cause me to have more problems with the trans or anything else? haven't had it at the track yet but it will be, and Im hard on it when I drive it. Thanks again

mrvedit

Even very experienced mechanics often don't know much about performance parts. In the future you now know where to ask questions.

A 2800 stall is very nice on the street although a 3800 will give you better ETs at the track.

To give you good advice for the future, also tell us your rear end ratio and cam size. Also what brand converters do you have for the 2800 and 3800?

bbond105

I think there is another problem. The trans should not be getting that hot at highway speeds of 70mph. Is the torque converter locking up at highway speeds? If not this will overheat the trans no matter what size cooler you install.

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

My convertors,OEM 1800,TCI2800,and the current Yank SS3600 lock-up at 35-40mph and unlock at 35mph. The lock-up occurs at low torque demand,cruising at a steady speed or in cruise control.

Paul Tinsley

It locks up about 55 - 60 steady speed on hwy. how long running a steady speed is normal before it should lock up? seems like I have to go 4 or 5 miles before it locks up, but I have noticed that it doesn't always stay locked.

Chris25

iTrader: (1)

Has this car been tuned since installing the aftermarket stall?

Chris25

iTrader: (1)

And I would get a trans cooler ASAP the biggest one you can fit 4l60s and heat dont mix well.

bbond105

The torque converter clutch should lock up as soon as the engine is up to operating temp and at cruising speed in 4th gear. With an overdrive transmission the torque converter will slip too much in overdrive and overheat the transmission if the torque converter clutch is not locking up. It is magnified if the stall is higher than stock. It sounds like you are having a problem with your torque converter clutch not locking soon enough and not staying locked up.

bbond105

Most torque converter clutches lock up almost as soon as the trans shifts into overdrive as long as you are not at more than half throttle.

bbond105

Take a look at this thread, https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...-cruising.html. You may just need to have your car tuned. By the way you have 2 threads go on about the same problem.

Paul Tinsley

I took the car back to the transmission shop because after you drove it for awhile the trans was not shifting right and the stall was not locking up as it should. i had them put a cooler in but as far as what Ive been reading and the knowledge that I am getting from here I don't think its big enough. I will be getting it tuned in a couple days and have serviced, changed plugs, ( by the way, WTF??? ) flushed the cooling system, added the fan switch mod, and put the 160 degree thermostat in it. So hopefully I am headed in the right direction, Im going to put some miles on in after the tune and see where Im at. Thanks

Paul Tinsley

Thanks for the post, I added a cooler, fan switch mod, tuneup, and have it tuned Saturday. I didn't realize at the time I posted the threads I was having the same problem, now I see there was more going on, and its all heat related.

bbond105

The heat is a symptom of your torque converter clutch not locking. The heat is not the cause of your problems. The torque converter clutch not locking up is the cause of your problem.

jimmyg

In my truck my converter was not locking either it ended up my crank sensor needed to be recalabrated had to go to dealer needed a tech 2 scanner now it's fine dealer charged me 90$ Took 15 min

mrvedit

Just FYI, the HP Tuners scanner will this function; it is called "Case Learn" and is under VCM Controls in the "Special" tab.
I had to use it after upgrading to an ATM balancer which then gave me various cam sensor codes. (Dumb me, I first replaced the cam sensor.)

As has been mentioned many times, the first step in diagnosing any converter lockup or trans shifting problem is to scan for codes. Some codes are hidden and don't immediately turn on the MIL light. When the PCM ain't happy it won't lockup up the converter; when it is really unhappy, it will put the trans into "limp" mode (3rd gear only).