Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

I can assure you it is a true statement. We have more experience than any aftermarket performance shop on the market. My core suppliers and aftermarket component manufacturers can confirm that as well.

We build on average 350-400 4L80E's per year for the last 4 years.
I sell my valve bodies to over a dozen well known builders and companies across the country. A couple of big name performance transmission companies.
What you weren't successful at, I have been. I have not just one working transbrake design but 3 distinct seperate ones. I remember your dismal failure at that attempt all too well. It's a big reason I developed mine.

I deal with the technical questions of not only my transmission customers, non customers who call my shop, but also the vendors who buy my parts and their customers as well. So I have considerable experience sorting out all types of 4L80E (and other transmissions) issues remotely.

In short, yes we do have more 4L80E experience than any other performance shop in the industry, without a doubt.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the voice of reason.
It blows my mind how many people think that a vendor should be required and expected to be immediately available at all hours, answer any question they have even when it's unrelated to the product they bought, and give a long detailed explanation for every little component or procedure. Some low volume shops that operate out of a shack may be able to do that. Any knowledgeable shop that has plenty of work doesn't have that kind of time. We try to have personal customer service but we do have to limit the time spent on the phone otherwise it slows production.
I have two dedicated sales people in my shop now and I still spend most of my day talking to customers and answering tech questions.
I pissed off a potential customer last week because he repeatedly called our shop phone one call immediately after the other but didn't leave a message.
I explained to him that it was rude to do that and he would have to wait until I was finished speaking with the 2 customers before him. He couldn't handle the truth so he went elsewhere. Good riddance.
We can only talk to one customer at a time, which means that very often all 3 of us are on the line and sometimes 2 lines at once.

Some people want a "warm and fuzzy" feeling on the phone. If you want the real scoop I suggest you go visit the shop where you are going to get a transmission from and see the operation. Not buy a transmission from whoever will talk to you on the phone the longest, try to be your best friend, or call you on a Sunday to update you.
If I'm working on a Sunday, as I often do, it's because I want to get some work finished so I can get it sent out to the customer. I have M-F to talk on the phone.

Try to get some of the biggest names in the industry on the phone or email after business hours M-F. It ain't happening. I answer emails at late hours oftentimes at the end of my day but I don't feel it should be expected.

As I stated in my previous post, we have more experience than any other vendor on the market with the 4L80E. When you sell 350-400 units a year you WILL have failures. Many times caused by installation issues. Sometimes by builder error, and my preference is when a customer actually BREAKS THE **** out of something. At least then it's caused by pushing the envelope and finding the weak spot, not something stupid like low fluid level, tuning, shifter adjustment or breaking the pump. It's disappointing to see your hard work not even given a chance to work because of that type of failure.

The mentality these days by many auto enthusiast is the "Wal-Mart" mentality. They fail to understand that each unit is in fact custom built and not something that we can just assemble in 45 minutes. (There are over 600 variations of 4L80Es on my website) They fail to understand that no vendor can stay in business by covering their mistakes for free. No vendor SHOULD have to cover an installation error, and if they do so, they do so out of courtesy. I have done so MANY times and anybody care to guess how many times the customer expressed any gratitude?

I was speaking with a former employee recently who decided to partner up and try to break into this industry. He said "It's the most thankless job ever, now I understand your side of it as a business owner".

I sell transmissions that cost $3000-5000 every day. I KNOW this is a huge chunk of change to spend on a transmission. Some of our extremely high HP units approach $10k. I think that many people assume transmissions builders are making it rich doing this. I assure you we are not. The parts content, core costs, labor costs, taxes, overhead, etc are what drives the cost of these units. I could make a much bigger profit doing run of the mill rebuilds on whatever came through the door.

I've seen units come in from just about every performance shop in the industry. There are other shops who are putting out good units, but there are also many well respected shops who are putting out what we would call JUNK. Worn out pumps, worn out planets, **** poor valve body engineering, worn out bushings, etc. It amazes me that they even get away with it and maintain their name in the industry but there's nothing we can do but continue to build them to our standards. It seems like we eventually get many of the ones that guys have gone elsewhere previously.

ws602

iTrader: (2)

I feel if a person is about to spend 7 to 8 thousand dollars of their hard earned money at a shop the shop owe them the respect of answering any questions they may have.Not let a parts runner pick the phone and feed them a line of crap. NORTH TEXAS CONVERTER have skills and their service is topped notched!! I had the pleasure of going to their shop and them explaining what all goes into a transmission build.

transam69230

iTrader: (49)

Same here man! I tell everyone I know that is thinking about buying transmission to go with North Texas Converter.

NorthTexasConverter

I think everyone should watch this a time or two

tim_bo16

I don't see how having to wait for a call back for a good quality product is a bad thing. Its called patience and understanding that the person you're spending your coin on, has a life too. Have any of you ever ran your own business? You guys are acting like just because you spend money with these people, you are owed the world. I've talked to Jake a couple years back over a 4l80, and opted to go local just for possible warranty issues. (now regretting not going with jakes) Fact is, if you want the Wal-Mart of service, go with big name toys. If you want quality, then pick jakes. I cant say anything about North texas as I haven't delt with them, but they sound just fine as well.

ws602

iTrader: (2)

Kmsl!!!!!!

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

Tread carefully with the slander Ryan.
You are NOT a Jake's Performance customer. You had a transmision built by another builder that didn't work out for you due to no fault of the parts we supplied.
You had repeated failures of the same clutch pack with valve bodies and drums from two different vendors (mine and otherwise). You can't blame that on the parts. It may have been a build issue, could be a tune issue, or a low fluid level issue. I cannot accurately say without having seen the unit but I know it wasn't any parts we supplied to your builder.

AutomagicLS1

iTrader: (18)

I agree with you but when I start smoking clutches in a 4L60E and I specifically ask the mail order builder what/if anything needs to be changed before it goes in from the get go they tell me to leave pressure tables alone and only change shift points....OK. When it ***** the bed they want to see my file so they can see my tune while I waited 3 weeks for their "tuner friend" to figure out how to download HP Tuners and go over my file and try to find something that they probably don't even know what they are looking at. Costed me a month and a half of downtime. So everyone that asks me what 4L60E would you buy I tell them don't buy one and if you do buy a internet trans send them your tune before it ever leaves their shop to avoid confusion. It's really about the best you can do to cover your *** as a buyer as well as sending a picture to the builder of the spacing between converter and flexplate with a measurement. This was quite awhile ago and I finally switched to a th400 that a local guy builds them out of his garage and is the best

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

I don't disagree, as stated we spend a considerable amount of time on the phone and email answering sales and technical questions. We don't have a parts runner. Most of our vendors deliver to us and I usually do any other parts running that needs to be done. My phone sales guy is very familiar with the product and helps with assembly at times on the rare day that the phone isn't busy.
Some customers want a shop to hold their hand and kiss their ***. We don't feel the need to do that. It's a business transaction not a friendship. I have plenty of local customers who I consider friends.
Many times I get customers like the one above who decided to go elsewhere and in the end they come to us to get it right and spend their hard earned money the second time.

transam69230

iTrader: (49)

The inner race on the drum that you supplied is tight press fit, and you even said so yourself when I called and one of your minions yelled back to you while I was on hold. When the inner race is sloppy that is not a parts problem?

Bill2002

I don't usually chime in on things like this, but I do have experience with Jake and his work. He did some work on the trans for my race car. I have no problems with Jake or his work.. I have seen him help many many people through the years. I know him mostly from NastyZ28. Very nice guy, takes the time to show you what is going on with your tranny. If the tranny ever goes in my WS6, Jake will be the guy I go to and no one else. I am not bashing any other builder, but I have no reason to go to any other builder.

I don't care where you go to have work done, **** happens. If the builders in NHRA and NASCAR can have issues, then the common man can as well.

BIGDRAGON

iTrader: (9)

I can clip and paste on here all the emails that were going back and forward from to you that will proof who's the real ******* and who's telling the truth on my case. My MAP sensor and Radiator upper support didn't get broken on it's own I drove my car into your shop and had to have it tow home. You were rude and very unprofessional to me from the beginning and as long as you are in business I will always tell people how you treated me as paying customer. Like I said buyer beware from Jake's performance.

mrvedit

Yesterday I visited Livernois Motorsports in Dearborn MI; it is a big shop that has space to work on 50 cars at the same time. With CNC machines that can blueprint a block or make custom parts. Some of their cars are receiving $100K in updates. So what does this have to do with transmissions and this thread? To install a transmissions I suspect they charge $1000 for the install and another $1000 to tune and dyno test the car. Plus of course the price of the trans. And more if the car needs any other mods or fixes. I know that most people would say "no f...kin way I am going to spend $2000 to install a trans". Yet that is probably what it costs to do it properly. So Jake (and some others) try to do a favor and install the trans for less. I know that Jake and his staff will do their best, but without the $20Million investment of a Livernois, they cannot tune and test everything.
Perhaps Jake should firmly charge $2000+ for a 4L80E install or simply do what e.g. Finishline Transmission (FLT) does - never perform installations.

As many others have posted here and elsewhere, I would have absolutely zero reservations in prepaying Jake for a transmission. I know I would receive a top quality unit. Of course I also know how to use a pressure gauge and tune a trans with HP Tuners.
So why am I defending Jake again? First let me say the I have butted heads with him on nastyz28 (on an issue long forgotten) , he is not my relative or even BFF and I have not yet met him. However I have read literally over a hundred compliments about the quality of his transmissions. With that knowledge, it bothers me to see someone write "buyer beware" based on their one personal disappointment. (Bigdragon: I don't doubt your disappointment and I am sincerely sorry it didn't work out.) Jake has also easily spent 1000+ hours answering technical questions on various forums. When I get stuck (I'm no expert), I know he will help out which in turns helps the OP. The next time I am in the Dallas area I look forward to meeting him.

Hi-Po

iTrader: (4)

You had someone else assemble the transmission, how can you place 100% blame on the parts supplier?

There are two sides to every story...

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

Post the emails Denny.

Your MAP sensor wasn't even in am area where we were working. Initially after the blow out with you I thought it possibly was pulled out when we R&R'd the trans because all of your wiring was loomed too tight. Howeverdumyour motor mounts didn and let the motor move much and its more likely that the wiring or connector would have been damaged from stretching.
I thought about it and remembered that the car backfired a couple of times due to what was later found to be a bad crank position sensor. The backfires were most likely what blew the MAP sensor out. No way to be 100% but experience tells me if we stretched the harness the wiring would have pulled out of the connector before the MAP sensor would have broken.
You are a paying customer, so despite the fact I disagree with you, you have a right to voice your grievance with my shop.
I feel like you are taking out your frustration of having to pay for the other shops mistake on my shop, but I have no control over that.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

I see what you did on the edit. Obviously you don't understand he components or assembly and are just going off what someone else is telling you.
The inner race when the drum is assembled (after usage sometimes they lose the press fit) is a LIGHT press fit. .001-.002.
We usually have to install the race with an arbor press and pretty much the weight of the bar will press it on.
That is how the drums that I build in house are made. We also occasionally source the drums from outside vendors depending on our workload and the backlog at my CNC shop. Some of the aftermarket drums have a slip fit. It's not critical either way. We've used both successfully at over 1500 RWHP. I prefer the press fit but my reasoning is more opinion than anything tangible.
The first drum you had was one of our in house drums. The 2nd drum was from an outside vendor.

Your previous builder seemed like a fairly sharp guy but not well versed in performance builds. i.e. not familiar with aftermarket parts, clearances, etc.
I'll try to expand on that in a bit.
He didn't like the lube flow of the drum we built so he sent it back to let us check it out. The fact he was sharp enough to look at that was one reason I feel he's a pretty knowledgeable guy. However lube flow isn't going to cause an intermediate clutch failure in the short term. It would cause intermediate sprag failure.
The reasoning is that the intermediate clutches are engaged in all gears but 1st. Once you shift out of first the clutches don't need any lube oil. 1st gear on a fast car doesn't take long to get through. However in 3rd and 4th gear you would be over-running the intermediate sprag. If there was a lube issue the sprag would melt on the first highway run. The sprag and inner race was perfect on both drums.

You had intermediate clutch failure with my valve body and then later on a Rossler valve body, and drums from two different manufacturers, myself and one of my suppliers. The statistical probability of the failure being caused by the parts we supplied is virtually nil since they were two different drums from two different vendors with much more experience manufacturing transmission parts than anyone on this forum and two different transbrake VBs from again, the two leading companies on the market for a 4L80E transbrake. Mine and Rosslers'.
Common sense should tell you that there was some other problem.
I spoke with John multiple times about your transmission when he was having issues. Likely at least 3 hours of tech support I provided, that you weren't aware of. I can pull the phone records and tally up the time spent and number of calls.

I would have liked to see John build you a successful unit. I tried to help him do so. When you got frustrated you called me. I gave you technical support and told you you could send it to us and we would look at it. I cannot warranty another builder's work but since you already had all the HD components it wouldn't have been like starting over. You decided to go with NTC. I sincerely hope it works out for you. However slandering my company when you aren't a customer is wrong. I did not sell parts to you, you do not have an invoice from me. I supplied parts to your builder, as I do to dozens of builders across the country, every day, successfully. I have very few issues with most of the parts I sell. Occasionally we foul up but I believe most of our customers would say our biggest issue is our delivery time. We are a small operation and we supply a large number of customers.

Drum pics next.

BIGDRAGON

iTrader: (9)

There was nothing wrong with my crank sensor is still in the car today,you did not support the engine and it leaned back and got broken it along with my upper radiator that hold the lid. You even said if you find the broken piece in your shop you will glue it back on. How can you sleep with yourself? going on here telling lies making yourself look all professional, remember Karma is bitch and it will come around in due time.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

I'll do it for you Denny...


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 6

to Jake's
So when is the car going to be done?


Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
Jun 6

to Big
It'll be done sometime next week the converters getting cut and cleaned today


Big Dragon <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 6

to Jake's
Okay bro,
I'm just very frustrated with the whole thing.


Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
Jun 6

to Big
I understand, but its getting taken care of. Its going to stay in the shop until you get back.
Thanks! Justin


Big Dragon <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 6

to Jake's
Thanks


Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
Jun 9

to Big
Denny , This is Jackie, so the transmission is installed and when they checked your shifter linkage it was off by 2/3 in between gears Jake took some pics for you to see. But the shifter not being installed correctly is what caused the transmission to burn up those clutches.


Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
Jun 9

to Big
Also Jake spoke with Greg at FTI and said that converter was furnished brazed and only tigged in the spots he didnt like the braze on so the converter is what you paid for. Who installed the shifter?


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 9

to Jake's
I don't buy that the car shifted all the gears properly and was not stuck in 3rd and it worked fine in over drive.


Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
Jun 9

to Big
Denny,
If you don't trust us to work on your car please take it elsewhere next time. I've fixed the issues your installer and tuner couldn't figure out previously. Your shifter wasn't properly adjusted when the trans was installed. That just cost you $1000 for a freshen up, $200 for a converter cut and clean, $400 for R&R labor, plus fluid and tax. They did you a real fine job.

When we tore down the transmission, we found burnt overdrive and overrun frictions. Those two clutches rarely fail and without other clutches being burnt, they don't indicate low pressure or fluid fill which is what we see most often.
I told Chris when it was torn down, that we needed to check the shifter cable adjustment when we re-installed it, because that was the most likely cause of that failure. Those two clutches cannot be on at the same time, and if the shifter is in the 3rd gear position, with the way the shifter was adjusted, they would both be seeing apply oil, causing them the work against each other.
The over-run clutch sees NO load unless you have the car in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd and you do a hard deceleration. That is a clutch pack we rarely see failed, even on 300K mile towing rigs.
After they got it installed and ready to go today I checked the shifter cable adjustment. Even trying to correct it at the cable mounting bracket it was off, which means the shifter adjustment has been off since it was installed. I took pictures of the cable with the trans and shifter in the OD position. It was WAY off relatively. There's very little margin for error there and yours was well beyond that.


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 9

to Jake's
For your information your shop was the last one that removed the oil pan mess with linkage the shift fine in all the gears. I asked you to drive the car before you tore it down.


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 9

to Jake's
Did you drive it? Like I asked you too.


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 9

to Jake's
The tuner issues were due to that sensor not being there you it.


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 10

to steve, Jake's


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 10

to allan.schiebold, Jake's


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 10

to James, Jake's


Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
AttachmentsJun 10

to Big
Yes. I did drive it. We dropped the pan to see if and how much clutch material was in there. It was very contaminated.
We previously dropped the pan to check the valve body when you had the shifting issue.
Your installer and/or tuner tuned it using a segment swap and didn't install a sensor and wiring for that type of install. We usually don't use the input speed sensor but we tune/wire them differently.
We have only dropped the cable mount bracket. We've never altered the cable adjustment. You can see how far off it is in the pic.
Shifter adjustment is a BASIC procedure required during install. It is covered on my installation packet you were given with the trans when you picked it up.
I also addressed it with your tuner when the car wouldn't shift and he said it was correct.
I've sold transmissions to several of your friends who have been happy customers. Your trans was still working well when it came in, by your own statement. Despite it having a huge leak caused by the shifter adjustment issue. That alone speaks of the quality of the product you bought.
I would suggest you find a better installer next time you deal with an expensive and complex project.


Attachments area
Preview attachment IMAG0847.jpg
Image
IMAG0847.jpg

Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 10

to Jake's, steve, James


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 10

to Jake's
That's fine I'm not gonna this ruined my vacation with my family. I will pay you in full whatever is owed, all I ask is when I pick up the car is that if I can see the bottom of the car on the lift. And do I still get a warranty on the transmission?
Thank you very much,


Big Dragon <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 20

to Jake's
When you get a chance can you please send a more detail invoice like we talked about? I did see one picture you send I downloaded it,any more pictures you have and the video you show me if I could get a copy of that would be great too.

Thanks,

Dennys Velez - VP of operations
Big Dragon Truck and Trailer Repair,inc.
2783 Autumn Breeze
Grand Prairie,TX 75052
817-891-1916



On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 10:49 AM, Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


That's fine I'm not gonna this ruined my vacation with my family. I will pay you in full whatever is owed, all I ask is when I pick up the car is that if I can see the bottom of the car on the lift. And do I still get a warranty on the transmission?
Thank you very much,


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

That's fine I'm not gonna this ruined my vacation with my family. I will pay you in full whatever is owed, all I ask is when I pick up the car is that if I can see the bottom of the car on the lift. And do I still get a warranty on the transmission?
Thank you very much,


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

<br><br><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com> </div><div>Date:06/10/2014 11:10 AM (GMT-04:00) </div><div>To: Big Dragon <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net> </div><div>Subject: Re: transmisson fluid </div><div><br></div>


Big Dragon Truck & Trailer Repair Inc. <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 20

to Jake's
I put a new fuel pump and the car still won't start.


Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
Jun 20

to Big
Check the fuel pressure.



Big Dragon <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
AttachmentsJun 22

to Jake's
I had a professional mechanic take a look at my car for not running and he found the MAP sensor broken on the back of the intake. He said whoever installed the transmission must have broken it,he had to take the intake off the engine because he could not remove the broken piece while still in the engine. Once I have a total bill from my mechanic for parts and labor, I will kindly pass it on to you along with the $207.00 towing bill.
Hope to hear from you soon.

Attachments area
Preview attachment MAP sensor broken.jpg
Image
MAP sensor broken.jpg

Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
Jun 22

to Big
Removing the trans has nothing to do with the MAP sensor. You had a driveability issue when it came in here. Not happening, letting you know now.


Big Dragon <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 22

to Jake's
is funny that I drove the car in your shop and had to have it towed home and you even said that you had one of your guy's test drive it before pulling the transmission and I have that recorded on the emails.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
Jun 22

to Big
I drove it before and it wasn't running right, it was running way rich.
You also took the car before we had a chance to diagnose it. We do not cover repairs outside our shop. If there is an issue with something we warranty it in house only. As per the policies on our website.



Big Dragon <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 22

to Jake's
You had my car for 4 weeks in your shop and you know that a with a broken MAP sensor the car will not run. I drove my car there and you drove too. The car had to be towed from your shop period. I have try to be very professional with you and have give you almost $5000.00 for this transmission and other issues and you only want to blame others, you will not hear from me again as all this emails are being recorded as I will seek legal advice.
Thank you very much,


Jake's Performance <jake@jakesperformance.com>
Jun 22

to Big
Our policies are clearly stated on the website and in the shop. If you had issue with our work you could have noted it at the time you picked the car up. You elected to have it towed. If the fault was ours we would have fixed it given the time to do so. We assumed the issue was with your fuel pump, as you stated and believed.
Your car has multiple issues with wiring, tuning, and other previous work done, several that I indicated while we were under the car. Crank sensor wiring loomed too tight and rubbing against the dipstick tube, codes that shouldn't exist with your modifications, etc.
I am not responsible for work done by others, before or after we worked on it.
Good luck with it.
Its not very often I place a customer on a no work list, but you are now on it. I will also be sure to let all other local performance shops know.



Big Dragon <dennysvelez@sbcglobal.net>
Jun 22

to Jake's
The matter of facts is that my car was at your shop for 4 weeks I drove it there and have to have towed home,and there were no other issues with my car. You were the last shop to work on it prior to this time when you charged me $300 for a sensor and fluid you removed the oil pan and for that you have to remove the linkage and put it back together. When I arrive to pick up my car on the 19th you said you wanted to throw my car out the door because I disagree with your finding results on the reasoning why the overdrive clutches failed. You didn't even answer my calls or emails you had one of your employees do it for you,that goes to show your quality of customer service is very poor and you do not stand behind your warranty work. Like I said earlier we will have our day in court and we will let a judge decide who's right or wrong. As far as you telling other shops about me or my car is a reflection of your persona/character,even with all these headache you have cause me and my family I still would not talk negative about your business. Your customer service and reputation speaks for itself.
Have a nice day!