4L60E slow 3 -> 4?
05-19-2015, 04:14 PM
#21
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Some (many? most?) rebuild kits have a separate TCC filter that you can twist and lock into the solenoid.
BTW - Specifying a location of even just "Europe" lets us know that you cannot simply go to a local shop to pick up parts for your car.
BTW - Specifying a location of even just "Europe" lets us know that you cannot simply go to a local shop to pick up parts for your car.
05-20-2015, 01:00 PM
#22
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I live in Finland. Most of the people here have been driving ages with only european and japanese manual cars, so there is no big markets for automatic parts. Ive been dealing with some autotrans shops, but they are more likely one man business and have not stored parts much. I think almost every guy who have old american autotransmission here is some sort of car enhusiast. 4L60E is here concidered as a new transmission. Many shops if they have parts in store, they are for th700 and older trannys. Hard to believe any shops here have pressure gauges to sell, there is just no markets for them.
Progress with tranmission today and a bad way. I had a strong feeling that i messed up with pump install, but no.
O-ring an metal ring was the way it should and double check pump case straightness. Could not put 0,02" feeler gauge anywhere under straight edge. filter was in place.
Very little dark debris on oil pan.
At this point i thinking like you guys. Should just be patient and wait for the pressure gauge to arrive.
What is left to do now is airpressure test to 3/4 cluch and clearance check for frictions right?
When i installed my 3/4 piston, i didnt have enough skills and i find it very difficult. Took me almost an hour to try to put it there. I made tool for the sealing lip install from very slim iron wire just like they are, but it was still hard.
I did pressure test with air afterwards. and it worked then.
This is getting interesting
Any suggestions what to check?
Progress with tranmission today and a bad way. I had a strong feeling that i messed up with pump install, but no.
O-ring an metal ring was the way it should and double check pump case straightness. Could not put 0,02" feeler gauge anywhere under straight edge. filter was in place.
Very little dark debris on oil pan.
At this point i thinking like you guys. Should just be patient and wait for the pressure gauge to arrive.
What is left to do now is airpressure test to 3/4 cluch and clearance check for frictions right?
When i installed my 3/4 piston, i didnt have enough skills and i find it very difficult. Took me almost an hour to try to put it there. I made tool for the sealing lip install from very slim iron wire just like they are, but it was still hard.
I did pressure test with air afterwards. and it worked then.
This is getting interesting
Any suggestions what to check?
05-20-2015, 03:34 PM
#24
TECH Addict
Preform the air test as described in the Sonnax Sure CureŽ Kit instructions that I attached. These test will show if you have any leaks in the hydraulic circuits. Mine was leaking badly around the boost valve sleeve in the pump.
05-24-2015, 03:49 PM
#25
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Made little progress here today. Cheked pump straightness and looked for lowspots in pumpcase multiple times. Did all pressure tests and didnt find any clues here.
I read instructions and i found that i missed one important part completely.
I shoud have drill holes in filterscreen in separator plate and put one small wirespring in filter to prevent filter from collapsing under high flow.
At time of first install i just copy the places of screenfilters from stock separator plate and install it. Stock transmission works like that, but in this case they must be modified. I think i nailed my problem here. Putting it back together next week and still waiting for pressure gauge to arrive. Ill let you know when its back in car again and can monitor pressure.
Lot of work, but im happy to found something what can cause this pressure problem.
I read instructions and i found that i missed one important part completely.
I shoud have drill holes in filterscreen in separator plate and put one small wirespring in filter to prevent filter from collapsing under high flow.
At time of first install i just copy the places of screenfilters from stock separator plate and install it. Stock transmission works like that, but in this case they must be modified. I think i nailed my problem here. Putting it back together next week and still waiting for pressure gauge to arrive. Ill let you know when its back in car again and can monitor pressure.
Lot of work, but im happy to found something what can cause this pressure problem.
05-24-2015, 08:45 PM
#26
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I doubt those "forgotten" filter mods caused your problem. IMO they only prevent the filters from clogging after many miles when the fluid is holding more and more clutch material.
05-25-2015, 01:16 PM
#28
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Okay, thanks for advice. Maybe thats not the case then. Instruction says "Sides of screen suck together causing low line pressure with high throttle". Maybe its needed only when you are with high mileage oil. I checked the filter and it was still with some tension. Not sucked together
Guess just have to put all together now, because there is no more visible or measurable signs much. More places to check before assembly?
When i read atsg manual i found there can be symptom "sticking pump slide".
When and why this can come up?
Guess just have to put all together now, because there is no more visible or measurable signs much. More places to check before assembly?
When i read atsg manual i found there can be symptom "sticking pump slide".
When and why this can come up?
05-25-2015, 02:17 PM
#29
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Reading over your thread again and trying to help others now with 2-3 shift problems, reminds me that there are a few places where the 3/4 clutch fluid can leak, causing slippage:
1. The seals on the 2nd servo piston.
2. The 3rd accumulator check ball in the back of the servo area of the case.
Did you air test the input drum after assembling it?
Did you air test the input drum installed into the pump?
1. The seals on the 2nd servo piston.
2. The 3rd accumulator check ball in the back of the servo area of the case.
Did you air test the input drum after assembling it?
Did you air test the input drum installed into the pump?
05-25-2015, 03:31 PM
#30
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1. Have to check this out, didnt pay attention 2nd servo piston seal when i took it apart.
2. Did the leak test in first assembly with mineral fluid.
I did pressure tests in first assembly, but as i always doubt my doings, i did it again.
Pressure tested drum only, i put around 60-70 psi in to the shaft and plugged the bleed hole with finger. It can keep pressure with minor bubbles from shaft and drum joint for many seconds.
I did also pressure tests with pump and all clucthes worked that way, with same pressure applied. Of course i hear more leaks that way, but hard to tell where it was, but cluches worked. Tried to monitor leaks by hand but no major leak anywhere.
With around 40 psi with pump, there wasnt any clutch movement when i tested.
2. Did the leak test in first assembly with mineral fluid.
I did pressure tests in first assembly, but as i always doubt my doings, i did it again.
Pressure tested drum only, i put around 60-70 psi in to the shaft and plugged the bleed hole with finger. It can keep pressure with minor bubbles from shaft and drum joint for many seconds.
I did also pressure tests with pump and all clucthes worked that way, with same pressure applied. Of course i hear more leaks that way, but hard to tell where it was, but cluches worked. Tried to monitor leaks by hand but no major leak anywhere.
With around 40 psi with pump, there wasnt any clutch movement when i tested.
05-27-2015, 12:58 PM
#31
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I checked seals on 2nd servo piston and have new suspicion again.
The old ones was cut type seals and with them pistons move very freely.
New ones is rubber o-ring style with D shape.
Dont know exactly which way they shoud go there. Flat side of the sealing in or out? Installed them round side out.
Smaller one feel very tight in bore and when feeling the surface of the bigger seal around and look it i can see that rubber is compressed little bit unevenly around.
Have i installed them wrong way?
The old ones was cut type seals and with them pistons move very freely.
New ones is rubber o-ring style with D shape.
Dont know exactly which way they shoud go there. Flat side of the sealing in or out? Installed them round side out.
Smaller one feel very tight in bore and when feeling the surface of the bigger seal around and look it i can see that rubber is compressed little bit unevenly around.
Have i installed them wrong way?
05-27-2015, 05:04 PM
#32
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While I have not personally used the o-ring style servo seals, I know they are available and very useful when the servo bore is worn.
I think you you have it right and that is not the problem.
Glad you air (or even oil) tested the input drum carefully.
This concerns me more.
Do you mean none of the clutches moved, or just the 3/4 clutch didn't move? I wonder if the teflon seals or a warped pump are causing leaks.
How did you install and resize the teflon rings on the input shaft?
If you used hose-clamps you likely overtightened the rings and they can take a day or so to expand again to the proper size.
How long between removing the resizer/clamps and doing the air test in the pump? You may want to leave the input drum in the pump for a day to let the rings expand and seal properly; then repeat the air test.
I think you you have it right and that is not the problem.
Glad you air (or even oil) tested the input drum carefully.
With around 40 psi with pump, there wasnt any clutch movement when i tested.
Do you mean none of the clutches moved, or just the 3/4 clutch didn't move? I wonder if the teflon seals or a warped pump are causing leaks.
How did you install and resize the teflon rings on the input shaft?
If you used hose-clamps you likely overtightened the rings and they can take a day or so to expand again to the proper size.
How long between removing the resizer/clamps and doing the air test in the pump? You may want to leave the input drum in the pump for a day to let the rings expand and seal properly; then repeat the air test.
05-28-2015, 06:17 AM
#33
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None of the clutches really moved with 40 psi.
Teflon seals with the kit is all cut type seals so no need for resizing.
I have checked pump case straightness multiple times now with straight edge and feeler gauge. I used even thin paper to check more precise. If pump is warped, it can warp only when bolts are tightened. Is this even possible?
We are getting out of options soon.
Still waiting for pressure gauge to arrive. Thats living in other side of the world
Teflon seals with the kit is all cut type seals so no need for resizing.
I have checked pump case straightness multiple times now with straight edge and feeler gauge. I used even thin paper to check more precise. If pump is warped, it can warp only when bolts are tightened. Is this even possible?
We are getting out of options soon.
Still waiting for pressure gauge to arrive. Thats living in other side of the world
05-28-2015, 02:36 PM
#35
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Little update here.
I have done my testings with wrong pressure. My air compressor regulator valve shows faulty reading, so test pressure have been too low.
Today i just checked this and put tyre pressure gauge straight to air nozzle and set pressure to correct that way. All cluches work now with real 40 psi reading.
Found something more. Earlier i didnt found much leak from boost valve sleeve maybe due too low pressure.
Today when testing again, boost valve sleeve bleeds pretty well.
How much bleed from there is acceptable? Isnt this boost valve sleeve stationary part, so why it starts bleeding?
I have done my testings with wrong pressure. My air compressor regulator valve shows faulty reading, so test pressure have been too low.
Today i just checked this and put tyre pressure gauge straight to air nozzle and set pressure to correct that way. All cluches work now with real 40 psi reading.
Found something more. Earlier i didnt found much leak from boost valve sleeve maybe due too low pressure.
Today when testing again, boost valve sleeve bleeds pretty well.
How much bleed from there is acceptable? Isnt this boost valve sleeve stationary part, so why it starts bleeding?
05-28-2015, 03:42 PM
#36
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bbond105 had this leaking sleeve too. Can you explain how this bleeding occured and tranny acted with your case?
Also not totally understand how boost valve works and this bleeding affects it, so nice if you educate me more here.
Also not totally understand how boost valve works and this bleeding affects it, so nice if you educate me more here.
05-28-2015, 05:15 PM
#37
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My trans would burn up the 3-4 clutches about every two months. I came across the Sonnax Sure CureŽ Kit instructions while trying to find a cure. I found a few air leaks using those instructions. One was a leak at where the input shaft presses into the drum, one was a very small leak at the 3rd capsule and the biggest leak was between the boost valve sleeve and pump cover. At the time of the air test the trans had a very low mileage TransGo .500 dia. boost valve. I installed a Sonnax .490 O-Ring Boost Valve and retested and no air leaks.
I will say that I bought a trans pressure gauge while the trans was apart so I didn’t have any pressure readings before the Sonnax boost valve, but I did test afterwards. The high pressures were up around 220 psi or so and low pressures were around 90 psi.
I am by no means bashing TransGo I have used their products for years and will continue to use them. I just feel that in this instance Sonnax has built a better mouse trap. I will use nothing other than a Sonnax O-Ring Boost Valve from now on.
The oil pressure oscillates the boost valve sleeve in the pump cover bore and wears this bore to where oil will leak between the boost valve sleeve and the pump cover bore. This leaking oil will cause a lower line pressure which is the Death of this trans.
I will say that I bought a trans pressure gauge while the trans was apart so I didn’t have any pressure readings before the Sonnax boost valve, but I did test afterwards. The high pressures were up around 220 psi or so and low pressures were around 90 psi.
I am by no means bashing TransGo I have used their products for years and will continue to use them. I just feel that in this instance Sonnax has built a better mouse trap. I will use nothing other than a Sonnax O-Ring Boost Valve from now on.
The oil pressure oscillates the boost valve sleeve in the pump cover bore and wears this bore to where oil will leak between the boost valve sleeve and the pump cover bore. This leaking oil will cause a lower line pressure which is the Death of this trans.
Last edited by bbond105; 05-29-2015 at 04:34 PM.
05-31-2015, 12:10 PM
#39
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I tried to post long version here my rookie thoughts with reverse/boost valve, but i messed up when sending and have blank message, so now its short version try out. sorry if its harsh.
Good routing info there.
http://www.grail-ss.com/GRAIL%20Webs...ETechGuide.pdf
look for page 32/150.
I have done a lot of pressure tests now (wrong and right pressure) and my only fault founded here is now outside leak from boost valve sleeve when tested torque signal hole of pump towards to c-clip side.
My thoughts is in action reverse/boost valve signal pressure should over do linepressure + spring pressure to produce max line pressure when closing press reg valve.
Since forcemotor is only solenoid it can produce only pressure, not much volume and it is sensitive to outward leaks by that way?
i ordered sonnax boost valve with o-rings but sadly it takes time againg to arrive.
Willing to hear opinions.
Good routing info there.
http://www.grail-ss.com/GRAIL%20Webs...ETechGuide.pdf
look for page 32/150.
I have done a lot of pressure tests now (wrong and right pressure) and my only fault founded here is now outside leak from boost valve sleeve when tested torque signal hole of pump towards to c-clip side.
My thoughts is in action reverse/boost valve signal pressure should over do linepressure + spring pressure to produce max line pressure when closing press reg valve.
Since forcemotor is only solenoid it can produce only pressure, not much volume and it is sensitive to outward leaks by that way?
i ordered sonnax boost valve with o-rings but sadly it takes time againg to arrive.
Willing to hear opinions.
07-15-2015, 02:18 PM
#40
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Little update here, it took some time to put this back together again and i had some other things to do, but i finally assembled sonnax o-ring boostvalve and pressure gauge and seems i have still pressure problem.
This is how it acts:
Idle pressure park 75 if i blip pedal, goes to 230 nicely.
Slowly adding revs high in park position constant 75.
Reverse idle 110 and blip 290.
In drive acceleration, dont want to go in third but when 1->2 pressure quikly rises to 170 and emidiately drops to between 125-150 and needle starts to shudder.
In second gear 2/3 pedal acceleration gauge goes 125-150 and shudders.
There wasnt any slippage in WOT 1->2, but that wasnt my problem after all. didnt want to try WOT in third cause of gauge is acting so strange. Im pretty sure it slips again to third.
Seems this hustle ends my driving in this year, but what are you guys thinking?
This is how it acts:
Idle pressure park 75 if i blip pedal, goes to 230 nicely.
Slowly adding revs high in park position constant 75.
Reverse idle 110 and blip 290.
In drive acceleration, dont want to go in third but when 1->2 pressure quikly rises to 170 and emidiately drops to between 125-150 and needle starts to shudder.
In second gear 2/3 pedal acceleration gauge goes 125-150 and shudders.
There wasnt any slippage in WOT 1->2, but that wasnt my problem after all. didnt want to try WOT in third cause of gauge is acting so strange. Im pretty sure it slips again to third.
Seems this hustle ends my driving in this year, but what are you guys thinking?