Illegal Vette

I've got a 383 short block coming and it will be cammed primarily for torque which I'm told is the 4L60e's worst enemy. I would like to be able to discuss this knowledgeably with my transmission builder so I'm asking: what are the essential upgrades to a 4L60e so that it can live behind a lot of torque? In looking at the various build threads some things are obvious such as the sun shell, and various billet parts but there are more esoteric things discussed as well that are over my head. What should I be sure my rebuilt 4L60e has in it?

mrvedit

Here are my suggested upgrades.

First, upgrades that do not require removing the trans, in priority order:

1. Sonnax 4L60-LB1 boost valve. (-LB2 for '06 and later with ISS pump)
2. Transgo HD2 or Sonnax Performance Pack shift kit.
Even with the HD2, use the Sonnax boost valve as it is better.
3. Transgo 46-PLT-06 separator plate; definitely replace the stock
stock separator plate when any shift kit is installed or the valve body (VB) removed.
4. Drill the 3rd feed hole (also called 2-3 shift) to at least .100"; this helps overcome
any small leaks.
5. Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve; install this when the VB is removed

And now the essential upgrades when a trans is rebuilt:

1. Use a 7 or 8 friction 3/4 clutch setup. Use the proven BW HiEnergy (Green) frictions. (I use Raybestos GPZ and think them equivalent). Don't use Z-Pak, don't use Red or Blue frictions. When the sponsors here build their Level-7 transmissions, they use the BW HiEnergy frictions. Nothing else to consider.

2. Strengthen the input drum! Remove the input drum from the drum and reinstall (with a press) with lots of Loctite Red. Then install the Sonnax input drum reinforcement ring kit. Yes, it adds $90 but includes their new custom overrun piston to work with a bonded forward piston. Skipping this step is now my hypothesis of why so many rebuilds fail within a few thousand miles - the 3rd apply fluid leaks out between the input shaft and the input drum. In a recent thread a pro mechanic tested and found half of his removed input drums had leaks in this critical area.

3. Sonnax Smart Shell. The old "Beast" is obsolete; don't use it unless you have a flip-phone on your Xmas list. Again, this is what the sponsors use in their high end transmissions. Besides being stronger, it eliminates the load/heat on the bearing inside the rear planet. With the Smart Shell, 4 pinion planetaries are plenty up to 550HP.

4. High RPM spring in the pump. The Transgo and Sonnax shift kit includes this spring.

5. Carbon band. Above 550HP probably should go with a wide band, but you should then also replace the reverse drum as the old narrow band wore it unevenly.

6. Various Sonnax wide and premium bushings are a no-brainer as they only add about $10

7. If you budget allows consider either having the output shaft hardened or buying a billet one for about $350.

More important than any selection of parts is careful assembly and making sure there are no leaks in the critical 3rd apply circuit (to the 3/4 clutch).

See also these threads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...ld-thread.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...hes-4l60e.html

Pay especial attention to PBA's (Dana's) posts as he shares his knowledge from thousands of performance builds and 30+ years experience.

coryforsenate

iTrader: (1)

mrvedit, in your 3rd bullet point you say the 4l60E can handle 5550 horsepower. I'm guessing that's supposed to be 550hp?

Illegal Vette

Thank you for this! I'm trying to decide who to have build me one, there's a local guy that supposed to be good. But there's also Trutech and now Dana. I just want to do this with my eyes open and I really don't want to have to pull it back out when I'm done because it wasn't done right or can't handle the torque.

mrvedit

If your "local guy" has a good reputation, says he is comfortable building it with these parts, and gives you a reasonable warranty, that would save you shipping charges. Even better if he does the complete job of removing and installing the trans and converter.

If he suggests some variation post it here for feedback as there is no absolute "formula". I can tell you that both Dana and Jeff (Trutech) would only agree with my list 90%, but completely diverge on those 10% - I post a middle ground. For example Dana might suggest 8 or even 9 BW HE frictions, while Jeff will suggest 7 GPZ frictions.
PBA has been gracious enough to recently share many of his secrets, but some require modifications to parts that many mechanics might not be comfortable with and DIYers are likely to mess up. Therefore, while I might try them myself, I don't document them in threads such as these. I document what is close to the "consensus" of many pro builders and what I have successfully tried on my own car.

high n dry

iTrader: (18)

Why a no-no on the Z-Pak?

bbond105

Because the Z-Packs don’t hold up to higher than stock torque input. From my experience the Borg Warner HE frictions seem to work the best. The Z-Pack may get you by but why risk it? As stated in other threads the Borg Warner HE frictions hold more oil and run cooler.

Illegal Vette

It looks to me like all of the quality builders are extremely busy. I called Jeff at Trutech last Friday and he called me back within a couple of hours and was very helpful even when I told him I was probably going to use the local guy. After thinking about it over the weekend I'd be tempted to have Trutech do it, I can tell their customer service is outstanding and with the number of transmissions that they do they probably know what they're doing.

mrvedit

Yes, Jeff at Trutech is very generous with his time on the phone. And very knowledgeable and willing to share it. (I've been trying to convince him to become a sponsor here.)

coryforsenate

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I got my rebuild kit and a few other items from Trutech. Very nice guy and very helpful over the phone. I had a conversation with him about the rebuild 3-4 times and he never rushed me and never tried to upsell me on stuff that I didn't need.

Tinbender59

Hum??? sounds like I need to give Jeff at Trutech a call.

I'm picking up parts for my 95 Camaro 4L60E build. So far I have 98 2 piece core, the Sonnax performance pack, both Sonnax Super survos, Super Shell, New BW Sprags, a "B car" TC (2250 stall) I just need a little stall. new steel pistons with bonded seals. and a wide 2/4 band.

Also wondering if Synthetic trans fluid is worth the money?

Looks like I need to pick up a new seperator plate.

Doesnt the HD 2/3 shift valve come in the performance pack

Planning on the wider bushings when I pick up the "rebuild kit"

" mrvedit " "2. Strengthen the input drum! Remove the input drum from the drum and reinstall (with a press) with lots of Loctite Red. Then install the Sonnax input drum reinforcement ring kit. Yes, it adds $90 but includes their new custom overrun piston to work with a bonded forward piston. Skipping this step is now my hypothesis of why so many rebuilds fail within a few thousand miles - the 3rd apply fluid leaks out between the input shaft and the input drum. In a recent thread a pro mechanic tested and found half of his removed input drums had leaks in this critical area."

I read the thread about the leaks in the input shaft/drum area, so I was planning on addressing that issue.

Curious point, about your hypothesis, as I have considered it.

I was planning on using Blue plates and Koleen steels, but I read that the Blues do not hold much oil. Therefore do not have much oil to squeeze out (cooling the clutches) upon apply.
so thanks for the heads up on the Greens, I knew that they made them for the THM400, I did not know about the 60.

I wonder how the greens would do with kooleen's??

As far as the Z-Pac, I have heard nothing nice about them, mainly there is NOT enough material to hold sufficent oil for cooling, or enough steel to transfer the heat away

Is there anything I have not addressed??

mrvedit

The Sonnax Performance Pack does not include their HD 2-3 shift valve. It includes their "Servo Release Valve", which none of the pros here seem to recommend.
My current trans has it installed and I will remove it next time the VB is off, to see if I notice any difference.
If you decide to try the Servo Release Valve, I suggest tapping it before installation so that you can pull it out with a bolt; it fits very tightly. IIRC, the tap size is 5/16".

I don't have enough experience to have an opinion on the Koleen steels. I suspect most will say they are fine, but not worth the extra cost.

I think you have it all covered, the Performance Pack has the pinless pistons, the high RPM pump spring, an on/off TCC valve, Torlon check *****, and other nice parts.

bbond105

I think the Sonnax Servo Release Valve will work fine with the Sonnax Performance Pack. This kit is tuned to work with the Servo Release Valve. Most people use the TransGo kit and then try to use the Servo Release Valve. This usually does not work because the TansGo kit is calibrated to work differently.

coryforsenate

iTrader: (1)

bbond105, could you explain what exactly the Sonnax Servo Release Valve is supposed to do? The website says it's supposed to help the 3-4 clutches release but I don't really understand their explanation of how it works.

I have it installed on my 4l60e, but I completely rebuilt it (including the Performance pack but I did the separate bore reaming to retain PWM) and I wouldn't be able to tell how it makes the shifts feels since I replaced/upgraded so many things at once.

Tinbender59

Cory take a look at this it might do a better job than even I can do http://s3.amazonaws.com/sonnax-dev/u...701-076-IN.pdf

coryforsenate

iTrader: (1)

If I'm reading the hydraulic diagram right, it's slowing the engagement of the 4th servo?

unit

These kits look promising for a winter project. Do any of you know if the 2-4 Servo can be reached on a C5 Corvette with the trans still in the car? I'd like to do the upgrades that can be done without pulling the transmission.

Tinbender59

On an F body it is a ROYAL pain in the tail, I think that on the Vette you may have to lower the tail, but you wont know until you are under there.

Tinbender59

What the MFH is up every time i try to post the page goes crazy and looses my message, except this one I'll bet

Tinbender59

yes it needs to be slowed down, when using the Sonnax Super Servos, otherwise you would blow the tab off of the band, or tear the band in half, or worse blow the case apart with WOT Line pressure.


I was told that if you jack the line pressure up to high, you could shred the case and or the VB