Why are transmission rebuilders dk heads? Jake and CK
10-20-2015, 11:19 PM
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Why are transmission rebuilders dk heads? Jake and CK Why are transmission rebuilders dk heads?
I contact Jakeshoe transmission nd ask how much his 4l80 kit is without the electronics and his response was verbatim "We sell a whole complete kit only because people come back wanting more. If you don't want the complete kit, you need to go elsewhere". WTF??? Since you already have/know what the basic soft parts are, whats the big deal? And, so what if someone wants more parts later? You dont want more money later?
Fine, so, I weigh my options and like the 2004r better so I go see Chris at CK. I explain I am looking for the smoothest shifts in a tranny (its just a daily commuter for the most part) that will last. What parts do I need? I explained what I didnt think I needed the shift kit and asked if a few parts (billet forward drum etc) would work instead. I explained what I was looking for in a shift and his response was "the shift kit is the main deal". I am like okay, but, I am looking for this feel, so, what do I need? His response to that was "I have given you what I believe to be the best information. The kit is tunable.". He didnt explain anything, really. I talked about a billet servo, thats makes shifts harder. I asked about dual feeding, that makes shifts even harder. He mentioned none of this in the latest response. I then sent him one more message explaining that all shift kits I have ever use under the "street" setup were a bit harsh. I asked if his "street" version shifted as hard as the others and the reason I am asking so many questions is to make sure "I" build the tranny for what I am looking for.
No response a week later.
Whats up with these holy than thou, shut up its my way or the highway attitudes? I have read so many times where people say "I spent hours on the phone with and he was great? I believe that was publicity bullshit because they were both short, and, just didn't give a **** about my needs and what I was looking for. I guess as long as you buy their crap, shut the fk up and build it their way, they will pay attention to you? Looks like I am going somewhere else.
Any suggestions on a place that doesnt mind selling me what I want and would answer a few questions?
I contact Jakeshoe transmission nd ask how much his 4l80 kit is without the electronics and his response was verbatim "We sell a whole complete kit only because people come back wanting more. If you don't want the complete kit, you need to go elsewhere". WTF??? Since you already have/know what the basic soft parts are, whats the big deal? And, so what if someone wants more parts later? You dont want more money later?
Fine, so, I weigh my options and like the 2004r better so I go see Chris at CK. I explain I am looking for the smoothest shifts in a tranny (its just a daily commuter for the most part) that will last. What parts do I need? I explained what I didnt think I needed the shift kit and asked if a few parts (billet forward drum etc) would work instead. I explained what I was looking for in a shift and his response was "the shift kit is the main deal". I am like okay, but, I am looking for this feel, so, what do I need? His response to that was "I have given you what I believe to be the best information. The kit is tunable.". He didnt explain anything, really. I talked about a billet servo, thats makes shifts harder. I asked about dual feeding, that makes shifts even harder. He mentioned none of this in the latest response. I then sent him one more message explaining that all shift kits I have ever use under the "street" setup were a bit harsh. I asked if his "street" version shifted as hard as the others and the reason I am asking so many questions is to make sure "I" build the tranny for what I am looking for.
No response a week later.
Whats up with these holy than thou, shut up its my way or the highway attitudes? I have read so many times where people say "I spent hours on the phone with and he was great? I believe that was publicity bullshit because they were both short, and, just didn't give a **** about my needs and what I was looking for. I guess as long as you buy their crap, shut the fk up and build it their way, they will pay attention to you? Looks like I am going somewhere else.
Any suggestions on a place that doesnt mind selling me what I want and would answer a few questions?
10-21-2015, 12:54 AM
#2
Well let me enlighten you...
I am Jake with Jake's Performance. You have asked a valid question so I will give you a valid answer. I prefer not to speak for Chris at CK but I assume his response would be similar.
The simplest way to answer your question is,
When you own a business, you get to manage it the way you want to.
That's 99% of the reason to do it.
Another reason many business owners do things the way they do it is because they have EXTENSIVE experience with the subject matter. Unlike the DIY'er who THINKS they know something the guy that has been doing it for decades and has a whole crew also doing it, gets to "pay tuition" for their knowledge all too often. We learn not only the leassons we learned as a technician, but all the lessons we pay for that our technicians learn, and our customers.
So here's a more specific answer to your question.
Our Stage 2 kits are a combination package based on YEARS of experience building transmissions. They contain all the basic components that we use on EVERY unit we build. We don't take shortcuts on a build like many transmission shops. EVERY clutch gets replaced. ALL the steels get replaced. ALL the solenoids get replaced with a new internal harness.
If I wanted to re-use parts and try to build a transmission for the lowest cost like a production transmission shop, I could DOUBLE my profits. ANY savvy business person would make that decision in a heartbeat. If my company was ran by an accountant concerned with maximizing profits, I would be retired right now.
I suspect many other performance shops like FLT are similar. We build to a higher standard and expectation.
The REASON we replace all these parts on EVERY transmission we build is because we don't want to eat a unit over a $12 solenoid. We don't want to spend 5 hrs of precious time on the phone trying to diagnose a no shift issue because a solenoid quit, or a harness broke, or because we saved $10 or $50 building the unit.
I don't give my employees the option to skimp on parts, so why would I give YOU that option? My builders have more experience with performance 4L80E's than probably any other company on the planet. I trust them to inspect and select parts, but I still don't give them less than a Stage 2 kit to build a unit.
I'm certainly not going to sell a kit to a DIYer, and then try to help them diagnose their build problem over the phone/email because they skimped and saved $100 on electrical components.
When you buy from my company, you get the whole package or nothing at all.
We don't sell stock transmissions either. I don't have anybody complaining about the fact they can't buy a Stage .75 transmission.
I used to sell lesser kits. It's a huge pain in the dick to keep up with all the different kits and "add-ons". Our Stage 2 kit has several variations as it is.
Then you sell 4-5 different levels of kits adds to that, for 3-4 different transmissions.
Customer orders a kit, that I KNOW at the time of the order won't do the job. He gets it a week later, and calls to ask about the other half of the kit he SHOULD have ordered because now he's determined he needs more parts.
Then he starts the rebuild on a Saturday night. He need a bushing he doesn't have. He blows up my phone and email on Sunday to try to find the part, as if we can mail it to him anyway.
Let's assume it's an electronically controlled unit like a 4L80E. He was too cheap to buy the WHOLE kit. He gets it in and it doesn't work. I spend more time on the phone to diagnose something he should have replaced anyway.
We are a small business in a niche market that has low profit margins. Despite what everyone seems to think, it takes longer than 45 minutes to build a transmission, there isn't a huge markup in them, and there IS a huge amount of time that goes into each customer from the initial conversation until they get it in and running correctly, mostly trying to do THEIR job to get it in and going.
Our kit also contains a detailed Tips and Tricks pamplet that is worth hundreds for the advice and modifications. It's not getting sent out with a $50 seal kit.
If you truly want a basic kit with seals and clutches and no tech support, do yourself AND us a favor. Go to Ebay.com.
I buy over a half million dollars in soft parts a year, and there are kits on Ebay for less than what I pay. They are not the same quality, but this conversation is obviously not targeted at one worried about absolute quality.
I'm sure Chris at CK has a similar experience and opinion.
I am Jake with Jake's Performance. You have asked a valid question so I will give you a valid answer. I prefer not to speak for Chris at CK but I assume his response would be similar.
The simplest way to answer your question is,
When you own a business, you get to manage it the way you want to.
That's 99% of the reason to do it.
Another reason many business owners do things the way they do it is because they have EXTENSIVE experience with the subject matter. Unlike the DIY'er who THINKS they know something the guy that has been doing it for decades and has a whole crew also doing it, gets to "pay tuition" for their knowledge all too often. We learn not only the leassons we learned as a technician, but all the lessons we pay for that our technicians learn, and our customers.
So here's a more specific answer to your question.
Our Stage 2 kits are a combination package based on YEARS of experience building transmissions. They contain all the basic components that we use on EVERY unit we build. We don't take shortcuts on a build like many transmission shops. EVERY clutch gets replaced. ALL the steels get replaced. ALL the solenoids get replaced with a new internal harness.
If I wanted to re-use parts and try to build a transmission for the lowest cost like a production transmission shop, I could DOUBLE my profits. ANY savvy business person would make that decision in a heartbeat. If my company was ran by an accountant concerned with maximizing profits, I would be retired right now.
I suspect many other performance shops like FLT are similar. We build to a higher standard and expectation.
The REASON we replace all these parts on EVERY transmission we build is because we don't want to eat a unit over a $12 solenoid. We don't want to spend 5 hrs of precious time on the phone trying to diagnose a no shift issue because a solenoid quit, or a harness broke, or because we saved $10 or $50 building the unit.
I don't give my employees the option to skimp on parts, so why would I give YOU that option? My builders have more experience with performance 4L80E's than probably any other company on the planet. I trust them to inspect and select parts, but I still don't give them less than a Stage 2 kit to build a unit.
I'm certainly not going to sell a kit to a DIYer, and then try to help them diagnose their build problem over the phone/email because they skimped and saved $100 on electrical components.
When you buy from my company, you get the whole package or nothing at all.
We don't sell stock transmissions either. I don't have anybody complaining about the fact they can't buy a Stage .75 transmission.
I used to sell lesser kits. It's a huge pain in the dick to keep up with all the different kits and "add-ons". Our Stage 2 kit has several variations as it is.
Then you sell 4-5 different levels of kits adds to that, for 3-4 different transmissions.
Customer orders a kit, that I KNOW at the time of the order won't do the job. He gets it a week later, and calls to ask about the other half of the kit he SHOULD have ordered because now he's determined he needs more parts.
Then he starts the rebuild on a Saturday night. He need a bushing he doesn't have. He blows up my phone and email on Sunday to try to find the part, as if we can mail it to him anyway.
Let's assume it's an electronically controlled unit like a 4L80E. He was too cheap to buy the WHOLE kit. He gets it in and it doesn't work. I spend more time on the phone to diagnose something he should have replaced anyway.
We are a small business in a niche market that has low profit margins. Despite what everyone seems to think, it takes longer than 45 minutes to build a transmission, there isn't a huge markup in them, and there IS a huge amount of time that goes into each customer from the initial conversation until they get it in and running correctly, mostly trying to do THEIR job to get it in and going.
Our kit also contains a detailed Tips and Tricks pamplet that is worth hundreds for the advice and modifications. It's not getting sent out with a $50 seal kit.
If you truly want a basic kit with seals and clutches and no tech support, do yourself AND us a favor. Go to Ebay.com.
I buy over a half million dollars in soft parts a year, and there are kits on Ebay for less than what I pay. They are not the same quality, but this conversation is obviously not targeted at one worried about absolute quality.
I'm sure Chris at CK has a similar experience and opinion.
10-21-2015, 08:24 AM
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1) It doesn’t matter if its your shop or not. If your offering a service to the public, you should/could at least treat the public with respect. An answer of “go somewhere else” is a little fkd up.
2) I understand you and Chris have had way more experience than me, but, I am not trying to duplicate your builds. I am not asking YOU to build it to YOUR specs, I am building it to MY specs and prepared for the outcome of that. Not sure why you cant respect that either? You could have easily said “we can sell you the parts but I can not guarantee it will hold up like our builds”. In a government controlled world, I am glad to see that businesses are NOT letting the customer decide.
3) Again, I know you and Chris have more experience than I, that’s why I was asking questions about what I need and what I want. I have had back surgery and cant take a lot of jarring. Maybe I should not be putting a “kit” in my car, but, I want to enjoy life as much as possible. I need the shifts in my car to be as smooth as they can be while making the transmission last as long as it can. It’s a daily driver and I don’t think my body could handle 1 hour of stop and go 20mph traffic with jarring shiftsI asked about this and wanted to make sure if it was possible looking at all the angles, but, was met with impatience and hostility.
4) I understand about the time on phones etc, that’s why I said to you I could handle any and all issues (besides the hard parts you sold) that came along. I even tried to assure you I would not be calling in for 100 hours for support, and, even if that was the case, you could just stop talking right there instead of telling me to take a hike early on. Its easy to say “to be honest, if you don’t buy the kit you will unfortunately be on your own as we don’t offer support with anything less than our kits”. All in all, as a business man myself, if someone buys a partial kit (if it were available), or, any parts thereafter, you really should not be on the phone with them anyways. The ONLY time you should be on the phone with someone for extended periods of time would be if they bought a whole transmission from you, assembled by you.
5) Again, like I said, I didn’t want tech tips, extra time from you (I am not dumb, I know your busy) or parts that cost what you pay for them. I “was” more than willing to step up and make it worth your time as I asked you “how much for x”. Ebay is a crap shoot, and, like you said, building a transmission is too time consuming and obligating to have a chance at getting junk. I wanted to make sure what I got was real quality parts. It’s a lot easier for someone who has a shop and can take it out 1000 times if need than I that lives in an apartment complx. All I wanted was a trusted connection that knows what parts they have so I could buy them. I don’t mind giving you a finders fee, stocking fee and shipping fee. Nothing in this life is free, but, I don’t think the rudeness was called for. I don’t need the electronics, as I have explained, because I already bought them when I was planning this out before I ran across you in the forums. So, what, I have to pay double now? If you have issues dealing with customers, you may need to get yourself a CSR that can handle it, and, should think about it.
Its really interesting how you fully explain here, but, when I contacted you looking for specific parts, that was not the case. Same thing with ol Chris, and, you don’t have to chime in for him. He can chime in on his own if he dares and I will ream him the same, in public, but I doubt he would pop up. So tell me, what makes you so happy and helpful on the boards but not so one on one in email? False facad, dog get run over or?? If you would have spent half the time with my concerns that you spent here typing this above, I “may” have still bought the kit, but, you and Chris turned me away to the point I WILL rebuild my transmission 3 times over if need be before I would even consider buying with you all and it having to be built one time. Yea, Im a pissed pre customer, can you tell?
Very funny Jake, go build a transmission or something. I already have that bookmarked but it could be some chinease sht with a label slapped on it, no thanks. I understand I am on my own, that's fine, but, I would order form MAKCO before ebay. Neither tells you exactly what the part is but I would trust MACKO over ebay.
2) I understand you and Chris have had way more experience than me, but, I am not trying to duplicate your builds. I am not asking YOU to build it to YOUR specs, I am building it to MY specs and prepared for the outcome of that. Not sure why you cant respect that either? You could have easily said “we can sell you the parts but I can not guarantee it will hold up like our builds”. In a government controlled world, I am glad to see that businesses are NOT letting the customer decide.
3) Again, I know you and Chris have more experience than I, that’s why I was asking questions about what I need and what I want. I have had back surgery and cant take a lot of jarring. Maybe I should not be putting a “kit” in my car, but, I want to enjoy life as much as possible. I need the shifts in my car to be as smooth as they can be while making the transmission last as long as it can. It’s a daily driver and I don’t think my body could handle 1 hour of stop and go 20mph traffic with jarring shiftsI asked about this and wanted to make sure if it was possible looking at all the angles, but, was met with impatience and hostility.
4) I understand about the time on phones etc, that’s why I said to you I could handle any and all issues (besides the hard parts you sold) that came along. I even tried to assure you I would not be calling in for 100 hours for support, and, even if that was the case, you could just stop talking right there instead of telling me to take a hike early on. Its easy to say “to be honest, if you don’t buy the kit you will unfortunately be on your own as we don’t offer support with anything less than our kits”. All in all, as a business man myself, if someone buys a partial kit (if it were available), or, any parts thereafter, you really should not be on the phone with them anyways. The ONLY time you should be on the phone with someone for extended periods of time would be if they bought a whole transmission from you, assembled by you.
5) Again, like I said, I didn’t want tech tips, extra time from you (I am not dumb, I know your busy) or parts that cost what you pay for them. I “was” more than willing to step up and make it worth your time as I asked you “how much for x”. Ebay is a crap shoot, and, like you said, building a transmission is too time consuming and obligating to have a chance at getting junk. I wanted to make sure what I got was real quality parts. It’s a lot easier for someone who has a shop and can take it out 1000 times if need than I that lives in an apartment complx. All I wanted was a trusted connection that knows what parts they have so I could buy them. I don’t mind giving you a finders fee, stocking fee and shipping fee. Nothing in this life is free, but, I don’t think the rudeness was called for. I don’t need the electronics, as I have explained, because I already bought them when I was planning this out before I ran across you in the forums. So, what, I have to pay double now? If you have issues dealing with customers, you may need to get yourself a CSR that can handle it, and, should think about it.
Its really interesting how you fully explain here, but, when I contacted you looking for specific parts, that was not the case. Same thing with ol Chris, and, you don’t have to chime in for him. He can chime in on his own if he dares and I will ream him the same, in public, but I doubt he would pop up. So tell me, what makes you so happy and helpful on the boards but not so one on one in email? False facad, dog get run over or?? If you would have spent half the time with my concerns that you spent here typing this above, I “may” have still bought the kit, but, you and Chris turned me away to the point I WILL rebuild my transmission 3 times over if need be before I would even consider buying with you all and it having to be built one time. Yea, Im a pissed pre customer, can you tell?
Very funny Jake, go build a transmission or something. I already have that bookmarked but it could be some chinease sht with a label slapped on it, no thanks. I understand I am on my own, that's fine, but, I would order form MAKCO before ebay. Neither tells you exactly what the part is but I would trust MACKO over ebay.
10-21-2015, 09:17 AM
#5
You still don't get it.
I simply didn't waste my time selling you a kit. My answer was straightforward and to the point. That is the way we sell it. If you don't want to buy it complete, you would be better served buying it elsewhere.
That's not rude. That's just our policy.
I also have a $150 minimum order policy.
The reason is I don't want to waste $50 in time to send out a $5 part.
I'm not in business to sell kits.
We do that as a courtesy.
It conflicts with our primary business for obvious reasons and some not so obvious reasons.
As stated we are a small business and I don't have the staff to constantly package small orders. We have one full time packaging/shipping guy as it is.
I'm also not going to, nor do I owe you, an explanation like I've given here over the phone during the business day. We're too busy to do so.
You didn't get the answer you wanted to hear. We're not selling you something that will result in a huge headache for us. Learned that lesson years ago. Would you expect to go to the shoe store and tell them you want a pair of shoes but without the laces, insoles, and you want the price discounted?
I may be a dkhead, but I've gotten to a point I can pick my customers and smart enough to select my work.
The last thing I have time for is a customer whining on the internet.
I simply didn't waste my time selling you a kit. My answer was straightforward and to the point. That is the way we sell it. If you don't want to buy it complete, you would be better served buying it elsewhere.
That's not rude. That's just our policy.
I also have a $150 minimum order policy.
The reason is I don't want to waste $50 in time to send out a $5 part.
I'm not in business to sell kits.
We do that as a courtesy.
It conflicts with our primary business for obvious reasons and some not so obvious reasons.
As stated we are a small business and I don't have the staff to constantly package small orders. We have one full time packaging/shipping guy as it is.
I'm also not going to, nor do I owe you, an explanation like I've given here over the phone during the business day. We're too busy to do so.
You didn't get the answer you wanted to hear. We're not selling you something that will result in a huge headache for us. Learned that lesson years ago. Would you expect to go to the shoe store and tell them you want a pair of shoes but without the laces, insoles, and you want the price discounted?
I may be a dkhead, but I've gotten to a point I can pick my customers and smart enough to select my work.
The last thing I have time for is a customer whining on the internet.
10-21-2015, 09:19 AM
#6
Not taking up for the transmission guys, BUT I will say you can spend hours upon hours on emails, texts, and calls with someone for a $25 profit(or when you're as nice as can be for all of the calls, texts, and emails that come at ANY GIVEN TIME, and they buy from ebay for $9 savings).
Although the business is not all about profit, dealing with the issues can eat up so much time you can't do your job(actually getting transmissions done in this case) to make you very cynical in dealing with customers, especially when they immediately want to start diagnosing your package you sell together for whatever reason.
Again, not taking sides, just showing my experience being on both sides of this coin before.
Although the business is not all about profit, dealing with the issues can eat up so much time you can't do your job(actually getting transmissions done in this case) to make you very cynical in dealing with customers, especially when they immediately want to start diagnosing your package you sell together for whatever reason.
Again, not taking sides, just showing my experience being on both sides of this coin before.
10-21-2015, 09:42 AM
#7
Not taking up for the transmission guys, BUT I will say you can spend hours upon hours on emails, texts, and calls with someone for a $25 profit(or when you're as nice as can be for all of the calls, texts, and emails that come at ANY GIVEN TIME, and they buy from ebay for $9 savings).
Although the business is not all about profit, dealing with the issues can eat up so much time you can't do your job(actually getting transmissions done in this case) to make you very cynical in dealing with customers, especially when they immediately want to start diagnosing your package you sell together for whatever reason.
Again, not taking sides, just showing my experience being on both sides of this coin before.
Although the business is not all about profit, dealing with the issues can eat up so much time you can't do your job(actually getting transmissions done in this case) to make you very cynical in dealing with customers, especially when they immediately want to start diagnosing your package you sell together for whatever reason.
Again, not taking sides, just showing my experience being on both sides of this coin before.
This guy gets it!
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10-21-2015, 10:07 AM
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I got it, YOU didn't get it. I am not pissed you didn't sell me any parts. Its the way you decided not to sell them to me. I explained it in the long drawn out reply above, which covered all your worry's, you would not be wasting time with me, I just wanted good parts. Did you offer me a parts list to order my own from a COPETANT supply warehouse or were you banking on the fact I would buy a complete kit from you? You seem concerned about everything else that leads you to a parts order/build. Funny as how one can buy "parts" from someone and then be able to spend hours on the phone, but, to get 15 minutes of proper direction without buying parts, no dice. I even said "If you change your mind, let me know". Hmmm.......
Like I said, no biggie, not trying to get into a pissing contest. I knew I am on my own when you told me to **** off, and I will be fine. I have built a few transmissions with no problems so I will be fine with this one. I just want to make sure everyone knows your not the happy camper you make everyone out to believe you are, there is two sides to you, and, many that think their sht don't stink.
The point of this thread was to let people know my plight and to see if there actually WAS a place that caters to the customer, that HAS time to answer a few parts questions and WOULD sell to me. You know, the ones that can handle customer service. Makco is one, Whatever it Takes is another good place. They just don't explain the parts good enough for me to make a perfect choice but I am sure whatever I grab from them will suffice.
Like I said, no biggie, not trying to get into a pissing contest. I knew I am on my own when you told me to **** off, and I will be fine. I have built a few transmissions with no problems so I will be fine with this one. I just want to make sure everyone knows your not the happy camper you make everyone out to believe you are, there is two sides to you, and, many that think their sht don't stink.
The point of this thread was to let people know my plight and to see if there actually WAS a place that caters to the customer, that HAS time to answer a few parts questions and WOULD sell to me. You know, the ones that can handle customer service. Makco is one, Whatever it Takes is another good place. They just don't explain the parts good enough for me to make a perfect choice but I am sure whatever I grab from them will suffice.
10-21-2015, 10:16 AM
#9
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Not taking up for the transmission guys, BUT I will say you can spend hours upon hours on emails, texts, and calls with someone for a $25 profit(or when you're as nice as can be for all of the calls, texts, and emails that come at ANY GIVEN TIME, and they buy from ebay for $9 savings).
Although the business is not all about profit, dealing with the issues can eat up so much time you can't do your job(actually getting transmissions done in this case) to make you very cynical in dealing with customers, especially when they immediately want to start diagnosing your package you sell together for whatever reason.
Again, not taking sides, just showing my experience being on both sides of this coin before.
Although the business is not all about profit, dealing with the issues can eat up so much time you can't do your job(actually getting transmissions done in this case) to make you very cynical in dealing with customers, especially when they immediately want to start diagnosing your package you sell together for whatever reason.
Again, not taking sides, just showing my experience being on both sides of this coin before.
Like I said, as a shrewd businessman, it should be stated "we sell parts but no assistance will be given unless our kit is ordered" could EASILY have been stated. One could even say "we only buy these in kit forms and sell as such". He gives so much advice, if he doesn't sell individual parts, why would he not help me locate them? I am sure he has part numbers he uses when ordering or looking for parts. Doesn't have to give me the cheap place he gets them from, but, if he will not do that, then sell me the parts for markup to make up for his time. I dunno, that was just some ideas, not what I am "expecting" him to do, I just didn't expect a blow off.
CK has all the "parts" but when I was trying to explain what I was aiming for and what parts I should use, maybe not use, it was "I told you what to use". It wasn't a "if you use these parts, it should give you the exact feel your looking for", or, "leave this spring out and do this or that to get the shift you need" or even "what you ask for cant be done". All I got was flack and then silence. Go to them to ask questions because I am NOT the pro and I get blown out of the water. Its a wee bit....bewildering....
10-21-2015, 10:50 AM
#10
You are making my point for me, extremely well. You are also a good example of why I don't sponsor this forum anymore.
We simply don't sell a lesser kit. It's something I decided after dealing with all the hassle years ago.
You may say you won't need tech support at the time of purchase, but then after the purchase, when you get hung up on something, because you elected to buy a partial kit and without the Tips and Tricks guide, you call for tech support, I would REALLY be the dick if I told you we weren't providing tech support (which is exactly what you asked and paid for).
I've already been down this road, learned this lesson, and came up with a better business practice to prevent it. You just don't agree with it.
I've heard that same song and dance a hundred times before. Probably thousands of times before at this point. While 10% of the customers may not need help (usually experienced shops) 90% will. They will beg and plead, and promise they can figure it out. But EXPECT you to help them when they can't figure it out.
You are also doing a very good job of proving my ability to select customers.
We simply don't sell a lesser kit. It's something I decided after dealing with all the hassle years ago.
You may say you won't need tech support at the time of purchase, but then after the purchase, when you get hung up on something, because you elected to buy a partial kit and without the Tips and Tricks guide, you call for tech support, I would REALLY be the dick if I told you we weren't providing tech support (which is exactly what you asked and paid for).
I've already been down this road, learned this lesson, and came up with a better business practice to prevent it. You just don't agree with it.
I've heard that same song and dance a hundred times before. Probably thousands of times before at this point. While 10% of the customers may not need help (usually experienced shops) 90% will. They will beg and plead, and promise they can figure it out. But EXPECT you to help them when they can't figure it out.
You are also doing a very good job of proving my ability to select customers.
10-21-2015, 11:02 AM
#11
I would have been more than willing to give him a 30% markup in price if I knew I would have had all the right parts (besides the electronics) that were quality.
Like I said, as a shrewd businessman, it should be stated "we sell parts but no assistance will be given unless our kit is ordered" could EASILY have been stated. One could even say "we only buy these in kit forms and sell as such". He gives so much advice, if he doesn't sell individual parts, why would he not help me locate them? I am sure he has part numbers he uses when ordering or looking for parts. Doesn't have to give me the cheap place he gets them from, but, if he will not do that, then sell me the parts for markup to make up for his time. I dunno, that was just some ideas, not what I am "expecting" him to do, I just didn't expect a blow off.
CK has all the "parts" but when I was trying to explain what I was aiming for and what parts I should use, maybe not use, it was "I told you what to use". It wasn't a "if you use these parts, it should give you the exact feel your looking for", or, "leave this spring out and do this or that to get the shift you need" or even "what you ask for cant be done". All I got was flack and then silence. Go to them to ask questions because I am NOT the pro and I get blown out of the water. Its a wee bit....bewildering....
Like I said, as a shrewd businessman, it should be stated "we sell parts but no assistance will be given unless our kit is ordered" could EASILY have been stated. One could even say "we only buy these in kit forms and sell as such". He gives so much advice, if he doesn't sell individual parts, why would he not help me locate them? I am sure he has part numbers he uses when ordering or looking for parts. Doesn't have to give me the cheap place he gets them from, but, if he will not do that, then sell me the parts for markup to make up for his time. I dunno, that was just some ideas, not what I am "expecting" him to do, I just didn't expect a blow off.
CK has all the "parts" but when I was trying to explain what I was aiming for and what parts I should use, maybe not use, it was "I told you what to use". It wasn't a "if you use these parts, it should give you the exact feel your looking for", or, "leave this spring out and do this or that to get the shift you need" or even "what you ask for cant be done". All I got was flack and then silence. Go to them to ask questions because I am NOT the pro and I get blown out of the water. Its a wee bit....bewildering....
I'm actually getting a good laugh out of this today, even more so about the CK aspect. I know Chris fairly well. Last time we spoke a month or so ago we discussed this type of "customer" and the internet aspect. He said he doesn't get on the internet to respond at all anymore. He doesn't care to waste the time.
Before I got into the 4L80E, I did quite a bit of development work on the 200-4R. Some of it in coordination with CK. We built 200-4Rs for some very fast cars until recently. I also no longer build 200-4Rs, so I guess that would make me a dkhead if you called and wanted us to build one and we refused.
I can tell you from experience, that that particular unit will eat you up, even as an experienced builder.
Chris sells a package, and the reason he sells it as a package, is because EVERYTHING has to work together.
A different servo will change the calibration significantly. Dual feeding or not changes the calibration significantly. Servo travel changes the calibration.
It MUST all be matched, or you will be removing the valve body multiple times, possibly the transmission for clutches/band.
Chris doesn't owe you an in depth explanation of every aspect of the hydraulics, even if you bought his kit.
When you decide to build the unit, you take on the responsibility of it working right. Chris is offering a proven combo of parts to save you some of the learning curve.
If you want to completely understand it, buy yourself a 200-4R Principles of Operation book, and about 15-20 rebuild kits, a car to test it in, and get to work. Good luck.
I've been there, done that too.
Dual feeding doesn't inherently make it shift harder. With no other changes it will shift softer.
It also makes me laugh that I should have provided you with the part numbers for the parts you need.
So I should just take time from my business, to tell you where else to go buy product AND give you the part numbers for what you need?
You sir, are truly an idiot!
10-21-2015, 11:08 AM
#12
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Yea, you know Chris, I am sure you are all butt buddies against anyone that doesn't go your way. Gotta stick together to fight the power.
I guess you missed the part where I said I wasn't mad I didn't get any parts. Also about the part I have rebuilt many a transmission before, I know where to get "parts". I have enough info HOW to build them, make them last, but, I was interested in "tweaking" it as tight as I could. There is a big diff here. No, Chris doesn't owe me jack, but, if I want a trans to work a certain way, and, I am willing to buy ALL his parts (which I stated to him) where is the reason to stop talking? I even asked him if it was possible for what I was looking for, and, notta. Explain that? I was just casually chit chatting away he never really did answer my concerns or questions, now did he or I would know the billet servo (which I explained was a concern) would or would not make it harsher.
I am saying, if your that adimit about helping everyone with dual feeding tip, whats the big deal about parts you will NOT sell to customers? What, you don't have a spreadsheet you can take 5 seconds to cut and paste? P.S. its a rhetorical question/example, not something "expected.
No, I have debunked ALL your issues/concerns. Your ability to not really care about someones concerns is fully established. Select customers, lol, your funny. You do a good job at something else, I can tell you that. Keep trying to plant the seed of doubt, its all good. Bottom line is you do what you want, how you want it and screw anyone else. Good for you, I wish you luck with your shop. Not the kind of people "I" do business with anyways.
I guess you missed the part where I said I wasn't mad I didn't get any parts. Also about the part I have rebuilt many a transmission before, I know where to get "parts". I have enough info HOW to build them, make them last, but, I was interested in "tweaking" it as tight as I could. There is a big diff here. No, Chris doesn't owe me jack, but, if I want a trans to work a certain way, and, I am willing to buy ALL his parts (which I stated to him) where is the reason to stop talking? I even asked him if it was possible for what I was looking for, and, notta. Explain that? I was just casually chit chatting away he never really did answer my concerns or questions, now did he or I would know the billet servo (which I explained was a concern) would or would not make it harsher.
I am saying, if your that adimit about helping everyone with dual feeding tip, whats the big deal about parts you will NOT sell to customers? What, you don't have a spreadsheet you can take 5 seconds to cut and paste? P.S. its a rhetorical question/example, not something "expected.
No, I have debunked ALL your issues/concerns. Your ability to not really care about someones concerns is fully established. Select customers, lol, your funny. You do a good job at something else, I can tell you that. Keep trying to plant the seed of doubt, its all good. Bottom line is you do what you want, how you want it and screw anyone else. Good for you, I wish you luck with your shop. Not the kind of people "I" do business with anyways.
Last edited by csmc711; 10-21-2015 at 11:22 AM.
10-21-2015, 12:33 PM
#13
So you want a performance transmission, built without the performance transmission parts, because you don't want it to feel like a performance transmission, and your mad that performance transmissions shops wont build it like that? lol
10-21-2015, 12:44 PM
#15
Between the morons pestering them on the phone all day that think they know everything and the 1-800-dial-a-wrench calls im sure they are short on time. I would bet Jake has been doing this long enough that he can figure out in the first 20 seconds of the call if he's going to do business with them or not. There is such a thing as "firing" a customer in the business world, the ones you know are going to be a time suck and end up not buying anything from you anyway or do buy stuff but you spend more time baby sitting them than its worth.
10-21-2015, 12:46 PM
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I explained my concerns, was willing to buy all the parts (from them at their cost) but needed direction. No response to my concerns or question and "my way or the highway" response is bullsht. You want to buy from them, go right ahead.
If you have not read my concerns and do not know why I am looking for a specific setup, you should not post. Your just adding more hot air.
10-21-2015, 12:49 PM
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Between the morons pestering them on the phone all day that think they know everything and the 1-800-dial-a-wrench calls im sure they are short on time. I would bet Jake has been doing this long enough that he can figure out in the first 20 seconds of the call if he's going to do business with them or not. There is such a thing as "firing" a customer in the business world, the ones you know are going to be a time suck and end up not buying anything from you anyway or do buy stuff but you spend more time baby sitting them than its worth.
10-21-2015, 12:52 PM
#18
And this guy REALLY gets it! 
It's no secret in the industry that I'm to the point. This guy thinks he's telling the world something they don't already know.
I've built a business based on the premise of building transmissioms without taking shortcuts. He calls and wants something less, I sent him elsewhere. I didn't waste any of his time.
So now he's on here, calling me a ********, whining like a little bitch that I won't give him a list of part numbers and expects me to care?
He does have one part correct.
I am not concerned.
It's no secret in the industry that I'm to the point. This guy thinks he's telling the world something they don't already know.
I've built a business based on the premise of building transmissioms without taking shortcuts. He calls and wants something less, I sent him elsewhere. I didn't waste any of his time.
So now he's on here, calling me a ********, whining like a little bitch that I won't give him a list of part numbers and expects me to care?
He does have one part correct.
I am not concerned.
10-21-2015, 12:54 PM
#19
Jake nailed it! Chris at CK has been helpful to me, same with Greg at FTI, I actually haven't met or talked to a trans guy that wasn't helpful. Jakes posts on yellowbullet have helped numerous people.
Too many people like the OP in NoVA, you certainly have to know when to fire a customer. Generally when you think everyone is a dkhead, look in the mirror... problem is staring at you.
Too many people like the OP in NoVA, you certainly have to know when to fire a customer. Generally when you think everyone is a dkhead, look in the mirror... problem is staring at you.
10-21-2015, 12:55 PM
#20
Between the morons pestering them on the phone all day that think they know everything and the 1-800-dial-a-wrench calls im sure they are short on time. I would bet Jake has been doing this long enough that he can figure out in the first 20 seconds of the call if he's going to do business with them or not. There is such a thing as "firing" a customer in the business world, the ones you know are going to be a time suck and end up not buying anything from you anyway or do buy stuff but you spend more time baby sitting them than its worth.
You are correct, we can usually sort out the customers and send the rest on their way pretty quick.