Abuckeye

I'm having some strange symptoms and I need some help diagnosing. I'll try to be as descriptive as possible so bear with me. Any advice is appreciated!
I personally rebuilt my 4wd 4l60e around 3500 miles ago. It's in a 2002 GMC Sierra 4x4. I also installed a 3000 stall TCI street fighter torque converter and a small tranny cooler.
My truck was running and shifting fine up until a month before i stopped driving it. At the beginning of the problem it would halfway stall or stutter around 50-55mph almost like a miss (no CEL code is being thrown). If I stepped on the gas it would go away. Then later on as it progressively got worse it would act up at earlier speeds in 3rd gear. It was like a sputtering with a slight grinding or grabbing sound. If I would cram the gas it would get past it and go away. These symptoms wouldn't occur every time I drove. Just erratically at certain times or after maybe 10 minutes of driving.
Sometimes while it was running in park you could feel a slight imbalance in the vehicle.
Finally after driving it home after work it was fighting to stay under load like it kept kicking in and out of lockup. I gave it some gas but this time I heard a harsh grinding noise so I putted it home and I parked it before I did anymore damage.
I pulled the fluids from the tranny and transfer case. I caught some tranny fluid in a mason jar and it's dark red. It may have a slight metallic flavor to it. If I shine a flashlight on the jar you can't see that far into the fluid. I ran a super magnet through all of it and it came up clean.
I pulled the tranny and torque converter today but I can't tell if anything is wrong with the converter. I made two pieces of metal one that fits into the stator splines and one for the turbine inside the verter. They both have some resistance but I'm not sure what to look for!
Tomorrow I plan on taking the pan and filter off and see how much or if any metal is in it. I would love to hear some suggestions and comments on how I should go about it.

I replaced and upgraded a plethora of parts inside the transmission. Including the sunshell, sonax super hold servos , new solenoids , sonax shift kit , new molded Pistons, Torlon *****, red alto clutches and steels, bearings and bushings , Teflon seals, I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot.
I did not replace the sprags , planetaries, shaft , pressure manifold.

I know that's a lot of reading so thanks for bearing with me!

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

TCI converters are notorious for failed TC clutches, especially when PWM lock up is enabled and driving conditions are harsh. Oftentimes there is visible clutch debris in the pan and that's a dead giveaway. In your case, clutch material could have clogged a passage resulting in burned fluid elsewhere in the tranny.

I'd have the converter cut open and inspected. That way you'll know for sure if the problem began there.

Abuckeye

Does this converter have a one way sprag that should only turn one way?

After making sure this converter needs replaced I was going to buy a Circle D converter as TCI has an inferior product with a even worse warranty! I definitely don't want to go back to the same 700$ Verter that's going to fail (venting). They said I could send it back and they would fix it but only if I paid for it.
How has your luck been with Circle D and/or Yank?

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Not sure about the one way factor.

You can probably find a local shop that will open it for inspection. I wouldn't send it back to TCI.

I actually ran a TCI SF3000 for three years and 24k without any issues. But I had installed a TG HD-2 shift kit that disabled PWM, precisely because I was aware that it tends to chew up clutches on smaller aftermarket converters.

Yank and Circle D both have excellent reputations. My SS3600 has been in my car for about 8 years and performs perfectly under daily driving conditions.

SteveC

I had Sara (2001 Z28) locking and unlocking, "hunting" for gear, and stalling periodically after installing a Yank Y3000, and 3.73:1 rear end gears. I had Sara dyno tuned where the tuner adjusted the shift points and various other things 15 years ago. After the tune, I have had no problems whatsoever with her.

To keep here running well, I had a B&M 3 qt deeper trans pan and 24k cooler, and a TransGo shift kit installed along with a "Superior" billet race grade 2-4 servo.

Dave926

If it helps,

My TCI Sf3000 also failed nearly instantly after install. I have an HD kit, and once the trans is up to temp it refuses to lockup, and just slips.

No shuddering or anything, just a complete failure. Ive since disabled TCC lockup entirely so I don't dust my trans. I'm going to end up buying a circle d or yank, but after a summer of 95* heat building that truck (swapped s10) in the sun I'll wait

Abuckeye

Thanks for the advice guys!
I'm going to go ahead and install a deeper pan , bigger cooler , and temp with pressure gauges. I really don't want this to happen again.
I'll keep this post updated as I go.

Abuckeye

There may be a little glitter in the pan!<br/>(That's not what you want to see)
















I don't have the time to rebuild it myself. I'm going to try one of these two shops

Shift Right (Russ Lemaster)in Flatwoods,KY
Or
Jerrys Transmission Kenova, WV

I've heard good things about both of them. Anyone from this area know either of the two?

mrvedit

Since you have already rebuilt it recently, I'm sure you would find this rebuild to be trivial. Its really just an opening and cleaning. I would install a 7 friction 3/4 clutch, but that and a reseal kit might be all you need in the way of parts.
Not sure how you plan to get the trans to a rebuilder (ship it or drive it), but either method will likely take at least a few hours of your time and a quick open/clean/reassemble might not take much more than that.

Abuckeye

I would honestly love too and I still might crack'er open and clean it.
I'm going to talk to the tranny shops and if they rub me the wrong way I may do it myself. Which is what happened last time.
That little sense of security knowing that I can take it back to their shop if anything goes wrong is selling me as of now.
I get paranoid driving that truck around after wrenching on it. Any little sound or rock that hits under the truck I freak out and start combing over it with a stethoscope.
I'm sure you guys do the same with your babies!

After the first time I put the tranny and new verter in I took a country cruise just to break her in. I started the video and mashed the gas next thing I knew there was tranny fluid all over the road and on my exhaust creating a plume of smoke rolling off the truck. I pull it over and burned myself a few times trying to see what happened. With my hair all matted from tranny fluid and mud I found out that the inlet/outlet line clips that cost $ 00.25 had failed and almost cost me a tranny. I had no service in BFE and I walked 3 miles to a nice new house and when I walked up to the door she thought I was a little edgy for her liking so I had a pistol pointed at my face.
I only had a debit card and a $20.00 on me so I politely told the lady that I was going to reach into my pocket to get my wallet. She proceeded to ask me why I was there on her door!! I told her what had just happened and that I would give her $20.00 to use her phone. She said that she would call the number and talk for me as she didn't trust me with her phone. So she called my wife and told her where I was and confirmed who I was. The lady put down her pistol and invited me to go on and get to where my truck was away from her property. I tried to hand her the $20.00 but she refused to take it.
So Im walking back to my truck and it's pouring rain at this time. I get halfway back to my truck and this car passes me a couple of times. This car pulls over and rolls down the window and a women emerged from her car. It was the lady who's house I was at. Now she's nice as could be and apologize for pulling a gun on me. She offered to drive me to my truck and wait. I told her that I was dirty and wet and I didn't want to mess up her seats. She said " That's fine I get in this car dirty and wet all of the time, and I have gym towels that I'll put down.
So now my mind lets me see how hot this woman was after a comment like that. She's probably an 9.5 out of a 10.0 and she's maybe 40 yrs old.
So we're driving down the road and she gives me a towel to get my matted tranny hair halfway straightened. I strike up a conversation by saying " What do you do for a living " and the usual jargon. She asked me all kinds of questions and then finally she says " Do you ever cheat on your wife" I said no Ive never cheated on my wife and I've never come across a hot enough woman to cheat with. She said " Would I be a hot enough woman to cheat with" ( Holy Fu** I said to myself)
I've never pulled another line off so smooth in my life as I have this one , I said " I'm not sure yet I haven't seen under the hood". She said " here's a new set that I've been dying to show off" as she lets go of the wheel with her right hand and swiftly pulls up her shirt with no bra to show her immaculate "new set".
" Fuc* me " said I.
She asked " how do you like them ?". "They're great but how do they ride?" I asked. Halfway through her first word my truck appeared through the curve as she pulls over to my truck with my wife setting behind my truck in her SUV. My heart fell in my stomach as I see my little girl in the passenger seat.
I told the lady I was very thankful for the ride and the conversation. She said " my name is Teresa and you need to come visit me. You now know where I live so stop by anytime". I told her that I may do that! (knowing damn well that I couldn't because of my marriage and this woman was a little nuts so there's not telling what she was capable of)
Every now and then I see her out and she always tells me to come see her. I've never once planned on going on that road ever again ( while I'm married ).
Sorry moderators but I've never told that story to anyone and I'm glad i finally could.
Moral of the story is Fu** me why haven't I gone back out there!!!

clinebarger

^^X2 on what Mrvedit said.

You already have a factory deep pan, No need to buy a pan.
Do you have Alto Red's in the 3/4 Clutch?

Abuckeye

I need a new pan because that damn drain bolt was stuck like chuck. Also while dragging it in and out from underneath of the truck the pan has some deep gouges and it looks really shotty. I had to use a pipe wrench with a cheater last time to get off the drain plug messing up the head. I TIG welded an Allen head bolt to the plug itself but it warped the sealing surface making me put a lot of gasket maker on it. Do they make a pan deeper than the one currently stocked on it ?
Yes sir it was Red Altos with the kit I bought from Truetechtrans. I also had a seven friction setup. I should've bought Borg-Warners! But I figured I would give them a try.

mrvedit

I'm surprised that TruTechTrans supplied Red Altos for the 3/4 clutch; owner Jeff prefers a 7 friction Raybestos GPZ setup; these are the Raybestos equivalent to the Borg Warner Hi-Energy.

Abuckeye

This is the basic RNR pack I ordered from Truetechtrans.


I added in a lot of extra parts including the Sonnax performance pack. I have to give Sonnax props for making this thing shift like I wanted it too.

Abuckeye

I took my Trans to Russ Lemaster of Flatwoods KY. He performed an inspection and replaced the pump case because it had a nice gouge from the metal grinding against the rotor veins. He also installed a double cage sprag like I asked. He noticed one of the plantery gears was starting to get a slight wobble so we replaced that as well. He also ordered me an almost like stock torque converter. All this and he only charged 425$ and 100$ was for labor. I of course gave him more than that because he deserved it and it's hard to find a good Trans mechanic anymore.
Everything is almost back together. I started putting fluid in the tranny to find out that the dipstick seal is ripped. So I'm going to order a new seal and a flexible dipstick hose just to make it easier on me the next go around.

After all that gets worked out I'm going to have to finalize my plans on whether I want to add a turbo or just get a 6.0 and build it up for NA.

mrvedit

Good to hear that you got your trans fixed up for such a modest amount.

When dealing with TruTechTrans, I always recommend calling, talking to owner Jeff and going over exactly what you need and want. And asking for the Borg Warner HE or Raybestos GPZ frictions for the 3/4 clutch.

Another mail order vendor told me he sells kits with the Alto Red Frictions in the 3/4 clutch because so many people explicitly ask for them; even though he would never use them himself. The customer is always right, even when they are not. I suspect that is why TruTechTrans lists them too; you gotta sell what customers think they want. However if you call, Jeff will suggest his preferred GPZ frictions. Also, the performance builders tell me the Alto Red are fine for other clutches, just not the 3/4 clutch. Finally as I have said many times, carefully eliminating all the potential leaks in the 3/4 circuit is much more important than the friction selection.

Abuckeye

Thanks for the advice and help you all!

I ended up buying a Lokar 4l60e flexible dipstick tube. If you ever go to buy one get the longer one. This one is too short to mount on the firewall. Also some bigger o rings and some sealer is needed for a leak free application. The truck is running fine and hopefully this time when I save up money for the engine nothing breaks around the house (4th times a charm I hope)