Jbenj00

iTrader: (1)

I'm trying to mount a 94 4l60e from a ck1500 2wd to a 02 lm7. I got the flex plate from the 1500. What do i need to get this to work. I have searched and found very little info regarding the use of a 1994 4l60e to any ls based motor/too much info for me to comprehend as this is new to me. Any help tips are greatly appreciated. Thanks

FTICONVERTERS

iTrader: (3)

Do you have the converter that came with the 94 4L60 as well? If not you'll need to get one or have a converter made for those early style input splines. (298mm input spline)

Since you're using the older flexplate you'll need to get a spacer to go in between in the flexplate and the crank as the LM7 should have the short crank.

Jbenj00

iTrader: (1)

I have the converter from the 94 yes, I also have the 94 flex plate alone with the stock 02 5.3 flex plate

FTICONVERTERS

iTrader: (3)

Perfect! you'll need to use the 94' converter.

Here's a pic from the Sticky above of the spacer you need to use with the 94 flexplate.





IF you want to stick with the 5.3 flexplate you can do that as well but unless you have an aftermarket Flexplate or converter then your converter bolt holes wont line up. You'll also need to use a LS pilot extender like the one pictured in this link.

LS Pilot extension

mrvedit

STOP.
The '94 4L60E is incompatible with anything other than a '94 PCM. In particular the 3-2 downshift solenoid and the entire non-PWM TCC are incompatible.

Also, it is a very early design and unless it was recently rebuilt with performance parts, your LS engine will quickly shred it. I would avoid the '94 and '95 like the plague and leave them for people that need that particular (and odd-ball) years.

I would worry about a '96 or '97 being too worn out to fit behind an LS engine, but the spacer mentioned above would work with them.

Kawabuggy

iTrader: (1)

In a pinch he could use the '94 but he would need to install a TCC PWM solenoid into the valve body (there is a port for it) and use a 1996 or newer wiring harness. This would allow his PCM/TCM to "see" the TCC PWM solenoid so that it would not set a code and go into "fail safe". Further, he will need to swap the existing 3-2 control solenoid over to a '96 and newer style which is a 20-25OHM type. It will work correctly in this configuration even though there will be no actual PWM action for the TCC.

As Mrvedit states though-unless the unit is a fresh rebuild, it most likely will need a complete over-haul. That year unit will have aluminum 3-4 piston, aluminum forward piston, and aluminum O/R piston. It will also have a 10 vane, low volume rotor, pump that will most likely be worn out completely-depending on how many miles are on the unit. You also need to inspect the 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator pistons for pin bore wear. Every one of those older units we tear down will have worn out pistons in that area. That unit-if Factory-will also have a non-heat treated sunshell stamped "A" or "B" and is an exceptionally fragile piece. Please note that if you go the '96 and later route wiring harness, that you will need a matching pressure manifold to work with it as the 94 press. manifold will not work with the 96 wiring harness. If you are building something better than stock in regards to horsepower & torque-either rebuild this unit with better, upgraded, after-market parts, or start with a newer unit that is matched to the year of your TCM. Also note that your 94 will NOT have a bolt hole on the bell-housing at the 12 O' clock position, and that paired with your LS block that is missing a bolt hole at the 1 O' clock position you will be missing TWO bell housing to engine bolts leaving you only 5 holding the two together. Sufficient, but not the way I would want to run it.

On second thought.. the 94 unit is going to have a short shift shaft lever, and the case will have no provisions for mounting his neutral safety switch which if he is running a 95 or newer TCM the computer is going to be looking for those signals. His case will also be missing the mounting points for his shift cable bracket so he will be forced to source a bracket that will bolt up at the pan bolts, or use an after-market shifter. So, having typed all of that.... He needs to just buy a later unit-preferably something that is the same year as his engine/TCM. If you really want to keep the 94 you are going to be doing a lot of changes to make it work, and it will be (in stock form) a very weak unit.

mrvedit

Thank you for the detailed info Kawbuggy; I learned from that as I don't have personal experience with that year.
I know that the '94 is incompatible with the LS PCM/ECM and you have better documented how weak it is and how completely worn out a stock one probably is now.

I hope this additional info discourages the OP from trying to use a pre-'98 on his LS engine.
However, the "same year as his engine/TCM" is unnecessary in this case as any LS-style between '98 and '07 will work and the later years are even a bit stronger. For one, the heat treated sunshell was introduced in '03 when the LS2 engines came out.

Jbenj00

iTrader: (1)

Thank you guys for the great info, I just sourced a 01 2wd 4l60e from a silverado. Pulling this afternoon. I'm stuck with a 94 60e paperweight:p. I'm not going to be much above stock 5.3 power except shortys and a ls6 intake. I was going to put a transgo hd2 in it but I'm going to try the vette servo first. Again thanks for the help and pushing me away from the 94.

TheGreenHornet68

Great info, I wish I would have found it sooner. However I have already installed a 94-95 style trans behind an early 01 5.3 engine. Just to clear up a few details this is an 89 caprice with the stated engine and from what I can tell either a 94 or 95 4l60e out of a caprice. I built a stand alone style harness with all sensors still engaged with the exception of some of the trans wires from plug c100. The main plug to the sensors was powered.

The 4l60e (from my knowledge did have the provision for the range switch starting in 94 although not all models had it). 93 did not have the provision for the switch. The trans I installed does have it but is not compatible with the range switch due to the shorter shaft for the gear selection rod.

I have learned from what you posted that I need to add the missing 6th sensor. Something of note here (I may have the wrong sensor name) the GVP sensor had to be repined in order to match the later model 4l60e wiring.

Long story short can I make this trany work? I have the 4wd factory 01 4l60e in my possession to pull parts from, but I would really rather not have to pull the trany back out for major modifications. I can pull the entire sensor assembly out of the 01 and re-pin the GVP sensor and install it in the older trans, but how do I get around the range switch problem?

I have tried manually grounding the signal wires but no matter what I do the trans acts the same. Limp mode, takes off in 2nd no 3rd or 4th but will engage 1st if manually applied but will only shift to 2nd. I personally think that either some of the valves are stuck in the valve body and or bad sensors in the trany.

Will the older trany accept the newer valve body? And is there a way to use the factory neutral safety switch on the car to be able to engage enough signal wires to make the trans work in drive? Does the VSS have to be hooked up as well for the computer to control the trans? Customer is cheap and doesn't want to spend the money to do it wright.

I apologize for the lengthy post and inconvenience I may have caused anyone reading it, any help here is greatly appreciated. The customer just wants it to drive, he plans to sell it so he doesn't care if it holds up. I have already put more time in it than I am getting paid for, so I want it done and gone as well.

Thanks in advance.

mrvedit

First, any "range switch" on the side of the trans is not needed to make the trans work. It only performs the Park/Neutral safety switch and turns on the Reverse-backup lights. On trucks it has another (forgotten) function.
If your shifter works correctly and the car starts, you can ignore that.

There are old and new style connections on the Pressure Control Solenoid; you can simply splice in what you need.

The missing "TCC Feel" solenoid and the different 3-2 downshift solenoid's different resistance are causing your PCM to put the trans into limp mode.

As I mentioned before, I don't have personal experience with the '94-'95 non-PWM 4L60E. Swapping your '01 valve body might be a solution, but I think the case is a bit different in the area of the TCC-Feel valve. I remember reading how to overcome that, but now have no clue where. IIRC it required locking the TCC-Feel valve to disable it, and making a mod to the separator plate.
Another possibility is to disable the 3-2 downshift circuit with a stiff spring (similar to what the Transgo HD2 kit does) and installing a '96+ 3-2 downshift solenoid. Also connect a '96+ TCC-Feel solenoid to the '96+ harness and just zip-tie it somewhere safe. These should fool the PCM without greatly affecting the trans.
Perhaps Kawabuggy or other pro build can provide greater detail or other solutions.

TheGreenHornet68

Thanks for the info it is very helpful. I have already disassembled the 4wd lower end including the longer rod for the gear selector. If the range switch isn't needed then I wont change the rod.

I still have the factory NSS hooked up so the car cranks fine by the key.

I am fixing to pull the pan on the 94-95 4l60e and see what I can do with it.

Again thanks for the info.

TheGreenHornet68

Okay, I removed the pan on the old 4l60e and from what I could see and my knowledge on these tranys this is at the oldest a 95 model. It has the same number of sensors and wires as the 01 model. the only wiring difference was stated earlier.

I looked at the case with the valve body removed and everything looks exact, with the exception of a few places that looked slightly different in shape. But the difference did not look to be enough to cross paths with another passage way. All check ***** where in identical locations on the case.

The valve body also had similar differences in the same location. And either one check ball was missing or fell out during disassembly of the 01 trany. Other than that the physical properties and ball placement were all the same.

Sensors were different as one would expect. But had the same number in the same places.

I swapped the plastic accumulator piston out of the older model, which was stuck in place, with the aluminum one from the 01. Then I proceeded to change the whole wiring harness and sensors, separator plate, valve body, and longer shift rod for the range selector PNP switch.

Trany acts completely different now. It now goes into reverse and drive with less pressure, before it was a rather harsh engagement. The range switch is hooked up but believed to be broken (cracks around the plug connection are severe and could have very likely broke one of the contacts loose on the inside of the plug judging by how much the area moved when plugging up the wires). When placed in drive now it goes into 1st gear like it should but will not shift up manually or electronically.

I tried to set the PNP switch position with a multi-meter but could not get a steady reading, again leading me to think the switch is malfunctioning. At this point I wanted to know what the computer said the tranny was doing so I wired up the diagnostic port connecting pin 2 from port to pin h from c100. However my scanner, a snap on 2500, will not connect with the computer? I'm confused on that one unless it needs the signal from the BCM data serial as well?

At this point I have enjoyed what I have learned from trying to swap this trany in, but unless I can get some help to figure this one out the customer will just have to buy something that will work, either an older trany or a newer one. I would love to get this figured out and make it work for the sake of all others who have relentlessly searched for info on this type of swap. But I can't afford to keep eating up my time on hunches and guesses. I will swap the PNP switch out and wire up the speed sensor from the older trany, but I am done after that unless someone can help me figure this out for the community.

This LS swap is my first (LS based I have done many others, mainly imports and older carb based domestics) and is essentially a mule for figuring out what works and doesn't. I have two other vehicles at my shop that are receiving LS swaps. One is a customers, same basic vehicle but on a much higher horsepower level. The other is my own personal vehicle (The Green Hornet which was given its name by my grandmother). It is a 68 Dodge truck.

I will sway the other caprice away from the early model trany that he has brought me because from what I have learned it simply won't due. Just as the 4l60e I have for mine won't due. I have been buying parts for mine for a couple years like a yank 3800 stall and many more goodies, but from what I have learned about the 4l60e trany since this mule swap it will not be strong enough to hold the power that I will be making. I think I will go the built 4l80e route.

I've got way off topic here. But if you have read this far either help me figure out this early trany for the mule or stay tunned for later posts from me as I plan to join the single digit club with the twin turbo green hornet.

Thanks and have a blessed night.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

The Corvette servo is a good addition but it's not a substitute for, nor can it provide all the benefits of the HD-2 kit. I would do both with the addition of a Sonnax shift valve if you are going to get into that tranny. Also, now is the time to install good hi-stall converter and adapt the shift kit for it.

mrvedit

Again the PNP (Park/Neutral) switch has no effect on trans operation; I don't even have one.
The PCM reads the shifter position through the Manifold Pressure Switch on the valve body. The o-rings on that switch deteriorate over time. If an o-ring is bad, the PCM will read that the shifter is in e.g. D1 and will therefore keep the trans in 1st gear.
I would suggest replacing that before giving up; it is easily accessed after removing the pan. Heck you might even try the older one if you cannot quickly get a new one.

TheGreenHornet68

Hi again,

I have been Ill so I haven't had time to make a post (I've been in and out of the hospital). However I did get to work on this trany a little more before I got Ill.

A new range switch was installed as well as hooking up the vss. The trans does shift now, but it does not have any 2nd gear at all. It will shift from first to third. And over dirve will engage and disengage due to the different tcc switch I assume. So in order to fix the problems I would need to go back into the trans to inspect and look for issues regarding 2nd. It is receiving the signal to shift it just fails to do so. Possibly bad sensor or stuck valve. And to fix the overdrive I would need to try and find a way to get around it as you mentioned briefly before. The old overdrive is the simple on off style which does not work with the newer style that releases pressure to allow slippage (from what I have learned from various posts). This, I am sure, is what is causing the overdrive to engage and disengage.

Simply put as everyone has already stated stay away from these transmissions if you are trying to make them work behind an ls based motor. It is entirely to much work to make these transmissions work correctly. In my case I decided to make it work because that is what was brought to me and it was already installed once I found out this information. But after all I have done and the problems that I have run in to it would have been much easier to just change the output shaft and tail housing on the 4wd unit.

Thanks for all your help thus far. It has been very useful and is greatly appreciated.

Have a blessed day.