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Old 08-10-2007, 05:14 PM   #1
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Default Paddle shifting 4L60E and 4L80E

Guys the new Gm High Tech I seen today had a small write up on a New F1 Style Paddle shifting system that could be used on th350Trans, C4's 4L60E's, etc. http://news.hspn.com/articles/936/1/...tic/Page1.html What sucks is the damn thing is 1400 from them, may be cheaper a little through a Vendor??

I searched Jegs and I found this
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...58050_-1_10517 After looking you have to have the t-Com software for the 4L60E or 4L80E at $700+ the good news is I already have one for my 4L80E conversion . However its still $550 just for the setup so thats around $1200 for this whole setup.
Both systems are Suppose to be very user friendly and send signals so you don't have to worry about wiring up anything. The version from Jegs plugs into the T-com software.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this, thought it was really cool. Me and my brother were talking about a paddle shift conversion about a week ago too. He is picking up his LS3 08 today with 6-speed paddle shifting, so I get to try it out, lol.
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Old 08-10-2007, 05:16 PM   #2
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Does it rev match your down shifts?
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Old 08-10-2007, 05:24 PM   #3
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with the way my tranny is set up, the computer can shift faster than i could.
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick1851
Does it rev match your down shifts?
Rev matching is only necessary with clutches since they are 100% coupled. The presence of a torque converter eliminates that need.
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sroach20
with the way my tranny is set up, the computer can shift faster than i could.
The paddle shifter will shift exactly as fast as the computer plus .125 sec which is negligible. Don't think of manual control in terms of speed. Think of it as a gear selector. That is to say that sometimes the computer shifts at the wrong time. You will use manual mode to override the computer's shift timing tables when you know better than the computer. Some examples:

Wheelspin: Your tires are spinning and the computer sees 60mph even though you are only going 20mph or 15mph. The computer will upshift. Likewise, you might encounter wheelspin and lift off the throttle to compensate. The computer sees reduced TPS angle and thinks you want to coast. So it upshifts once again. You on the other hand might prefer to hold a gear. In manual mode, the computer waits for an input from you. It will even bounce off the rev limiter if you don't shift.

Winding Road: You dive into a turn in automatic mode, hit your apex and then get back in the throttle. The computer hunts around for the right gear. Maybe it chooses 2nd, maybe it chooses 3rd. Maybe it chooses one and then the other right away. You, on the other hand, know damn well that you want the transmission to be in 2nd gear when you power out of the turn and hold it in 2nd gear until YOU ask for 3rd.. So in manual mode, you will dive into the corner in, say, 4th gear, tap down twice to 2nd gear. When you get back in the throttle, the transmission will be in 2nd gear as soon as you get back into the throttle--no question about it.

In a perfect world, your computer can shift better than you can--provided that you have it mapped properly to compensate for your mods. In the real world, you are better at making shift timing decisions than the computer.

Plus it's fun to tap thru the gears and be in control. Mash the go pedal and get sideways. Tap paddles while sawing away at the wheel to keep the car under control. ..And when you've had enough, just put it back in automatic mode.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:27 AM   #6
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streetfytr68
You guys wouldn't happen to have any specials anytime soon would ya???
BTW I do have to run a Aftermarket steering wheel correct? Thinking about a nice looking Momo.
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Old 08-13-2007, 08:20 AM   #7
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Yup. We recently started selling paddle shifter/computer package deals. Save almost $100 at $1149. Yes you will need an aftermarket wheel of your choosing. Momo is my favorite brand. Very consistent quality and striking good looks.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:17 PM   #8
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Just got off the phone with Steve Chryssos at Twistmachine. One word AWESOME! Talked on the phone with him for about 30 minutes, Very intelligent guy who knows his ****. He answered everyone of my questions and really educated me on how the paddle shift works in conjunction with the tranny and torque converter. Anyone looking to upgrade to a Paddle shift I would Definatly call Steve and talk to him. The great thing about the product is they made it very easy to install, very clean looking, and you get the best of both words with a manual and automatic mod .
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetfytr68
The paddle shifter will shift exactly as fast as the computer plus .125 sec which is negligible. Don't think of manual control in terms of speed. Think of it as a gear selector. That is to say that sometimes the computer shifts at the wrong time. You will use manual mode to override the computer's shift timing tables when you know better than the computer. Some examples:

Wheelspin: Your tires are spinning and the computer sees 60mph even though you are only going 20mph or 15mph. The computer will upshift. Likewise, you might encounter wheelspin and lift off the throttle to compensate. The computer sees reduced TPS angle and thinks you want to coast. So it upshifts once again. You on the other hand might prefer to hold a gear. In manual mode, the computer waits for an input from you. It will even bounce off the rev limiter if you don't shift.

Winding Road: You dive into a turn in automatic mode, hit your apex and then get back in the throttle. The computer hunts around for the right gear. Maybe it chooses 2nd, maybe it chooses 3rd. Maybe it chooses one and then the other right away. You, on the other hand, know damn well that you want the transmission to be in 2nd gear when you power out of the turn and hold it in 2nd gear until YOU ask for 3rd.. So in manual mode, you will dive into the corner in, say, 4th gear, tap down twice to 2nd gear. When you get back in the throttle, the transmission will be in 2nd gear as soon as you get back into the throttle--no question about it.

In a perfect world, your computer can shift better than you can--provided that you have it mapped properly to compensate for your mods. In the real world, you are better at making shift timing decisions than the computer.

Plus it's fun to tap thru the gears and be in control. Mash the go pedal and get sideways. Tap paddles while sawing away at the wheel to keep the car under control. ..And when you've had enough, just put it back in automatic mode.
damn. now i want a paddle shifter. thanks a lot, jerk.

...so after i get that momo steering wheel i've been looking at, what do i need to get this on my 99 a4 ss?
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:37 PM   #10
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The complete list is as follows:
1) Paddle Shifter
2) Paddle shifter to Momo steering wheel adapter
3) Trans controller with manumatic capability (Factory ECU's do not have manumatic capability)
4) Change ECU trans type parameter from A4 to M6 (This is so that your ECU does not throw codes since the factory trans harness will be disconnected and replaced with the standalone trans harness.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T/A KID
Just got off the phone with Steve Chryssos at Twistmachine. One word AWESOME! Talked on the phone with him for about 30 minutes, Very intelligent guy who knows his ****. He answered everyone of my questions and really educated me on how the paddle shift works in conjunction with the tranny and torque converter. Anyone looking to upgrade to a Paddle shift I would Definatly call Steve and talk to him. The great thing about the product is they made it very easy to install, very clean looking, and you get the best of both words with a manual and automatic mod .
Very nice speaking with you today. Be sure to call me when you are ready to tune your trans controller.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:44 PM   #12
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Well I Went To A Car Show And There Was A Stand That The Whole Kit Cost About 2400 Bucks But They Make Make It Fit From Th350s To T56s He Had Them On Display It Just Blew My Mind
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:31 PM   #13
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You can't effectively paddle shift a pre-electronic transmission such as a TH350, 400 or 700R4. Shift response times will be slow and unpredictable since they must go thru the manual valve. The shift will happen, but it will be about as effective as grabbing your mechanical shift lever. Only you must also add the time for paddle actuation PLUS the time it takes to move a linear actuator motor. There are lots of mechanical components in the mix that will make for a very disappointing gear change. It's just a gimmick. With a 4L60E or 80E, the only thing between the paddle and the gear change are electrons. No mechanical friction, no arms to move or jam, no governor. If you decide to paddle shift a pre-electronic trans, run a manual valve body. And be careful. Bad things can happen when you combine an easy-to-use paddle shifter with a manual valve body. We chose not to pursue this option for obvious safety reasons. It's nuts!

The T56 thing is cool, but you still have a clutch pedal.

There are very good reasons why the OE's introduced manumatic control AFTER the introduction of electronic, computer controlled transmissions.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetfytr68 View Post
The complete list is as follows:
1) Paddle Shifter
2) Paddle shifter to Momo steering wheel adapter
3) Trans controller with manumatic capability (Factory ECU's do not have manumatic capability)
4) Change ECU trans type parameter from A4 to M6 (This is so that your ECU does not throw codes since the factory trans harness will be disconnected and replaced with the standalone trans harness.
Is this true for a 98 A4 also? (98pcm issues) What software would be necessary? (would hptuners be enough? or maybe thats what the trans controller is addressing?)
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:48 AM   #15
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Steve, other than convenient location of the paddles, and the quickness of the tapping movement, what is the difference between paddle shifting and just using the existing shifter manually?
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:58 AM   #16
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Bringing this back

Update: Talked to Steve this morning about helping me tune my paddle shift setup that he designed, and we plan on doing it tonight. In fact Steve was nice enough to stay after work to help me out. I looked at the TCI software briefly and it is easy to use IMO, however anyone wanting to do a paddle shift setup look into the Compushift software its even better.

Here is a quick pic of the momo wheel, Twistmachine shifter, and my Autometer pod
Click the image to open in full size.

Best pic I have of my TCI control box location. With the 5ft cable makes it easy to plug into a Laptop and do tuning from the passenger side
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:58 PM   #17
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Damn that looks sweet. Did you build the Autometer pod?
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:12 PM   #18
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The pod was built by someone on here, we added the LED lights and mated it with the factory harness, plug n play on the autometer pod.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:17 PM   #19
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I would assume the paddle shift feature would be better suited when paired with a built A4 vs factory A4. The reason why I say this is because a lot of people say to not manually downshift an A4.

I really like the idea of this. I miss driving a manual but I also love my A4....

T/A Kid, nice build. From the few pics your car looks beautiful
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:40 PM   #20
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that is a nice setup i wouldnt know where to start
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:40 PM
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