Clutch flakes in my filter 4L80E
12-27-2007, 11:32 AM
#1
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Clutch flakes in my filter 4L80E I changed the fluid in my 1998 4L80E, the pan was clean, hardly anything on the magnet, felt like I wasted my time.
But then I opened the filter and found flakes red on one side and black on the other probably .005 to .010 thick, big enough to not have come out of the cooler. How much material? I guess if you pieced them all together it might equal 1" of the diameter of a direct clutch.
This trans also will get up to 220 degrees at idle but cruise down the highway around 170*
It shifts fine, in fact it's always shifted firm for a stock trans.
Any idea where this might have come from?
Usually I'd wait for another problem to show up then tear into it, but I am towing my camaro and some other stuff 1300 miles tomorrow.
I got this trans out of a 3500HD tow rig with 60,000 miles and it had no reverse, I pressure tested it and it went up to 500 psi+ , I tore it down.
It had major bushing wear, too short a reverse servo pin and cracked piston, worn bore in the fwd clutch housing where the tubine shaft goes in it.
I replaced all the parts above plus the reverse band, and fwd piston. I replaced the blue spring steel cushion plates with old style waved steel plates, put in a Sonnax pressure limiting boost valve. I re-used the clutches because they were all in very good shape, re-used the converter. All this was approx
25,000 miles ago. And I don't remember what color clutches it had.
I've towed short distances twice and hauled heavy loads twice with no problems.
Is there any chance I'll make it? Dumb question, I think.
But then I opened the filter and found flakes red on one side and black on the other probably .005 to .010 thick, big enough to not have come out of the cooler. How much material? I guess if you pieced them all together it might equal 1" of the diameter of a direct clutch.
This trans also will get up to 220 degrees at idle but cruise down the highway around 170*
It shifts fine, in fact it's always shifted firm for a stock trans.
Any idea where this might have come from?
Usually I'd wait for another problem to show up then tear into it, but I am towing my camaro and some other stuff 1300 miles tomorrow.
I got this trans out of a 3500HD tow rig with 60,000 miles and it had no reverse, I pressure tested it and it went up to 500 psi+ , I tore it down.
It had major bushing wear, too short a reverse servo pin and cracked piston, worn bore in the fwd clutch housing where the tubine shaft goes in it.
I replaced all the parts above plus the reverse band, and fwd piston. I replaced the blue spring steel cushion plates with old style waved steel plates, put in a Sonnax pressure limiting boost valve. I re-used the clutches because they were all in very good shape, re-used the converter. All this was approx
25,000 miles ago. And I don't remember what color clutches it had.
I've towed short distances twice and hauled heavy loads twice with no problems.
Is there any chance I'll make it? Dumb question, I think.
12-27-2007, 11:36 AM
#2
Its very hard to say would you have a camera availabe so we could see the flakes? I am still not sure how much that would help. but you never know. Its possible you have some clutches pitting I have seen that in units where the trans may have been exposed to moisture at some time.Even setting for very long periods
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12-27-2007, 12:08 PM
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My camera isn't good enough, plus I sat there in disbelief breaking them into smaller pieces before putting it all in the trash.
I have seen pitting before too, and bubbling, and clutches that you can just flake material off with your fingernail. But these were all being torn down to rebuild. I've never found anything like this that I'm still running and about to put a huge load on.
Wish I never broke the thing open.
If it's an immediate problem it should run high temps once I get on the road towing right?
I have seen pitting before too, and bubbling, and clutches that you can just flake material off with your fingernail. But these were all being torn down to rebuild. I've never found anything like this that I'm still running and about to put a huge load on.
Wish I never broke the thing open.
If it's an immediate problem it should run high temps once I get on the road towing right?
12-27-2007, 12:17 PM
#4
No nesesarriley if its just pitting then thet may be all you will ever see. I have also seen converter clutches do that when they have been slipping excessivly you did say that they were black on one side only didnt you? I have seen them flake from heat.
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12-27-2007, 12:25 PM
#5
Well that sucks. Sorry to hear about it.
As you know there really is no way to determine which clutches are affected without getting your hands on them. My 1st inclination is to suspect the converter clutch, but it is just a hunch and you know it. I would think that if it is not severe then the service you gave it is going to help the cause. Was the fluid discolored? Any symptoms other than the clutch material?
It could have been there for a very long time. It may have accumulated this material just after the build.
g
As you know there really is no way to determine which clutches are affected without getting your hands on them. My 1st inclination is to suspect the converter clutch, but it is just a hunch and you know it. I would think that if it is not severe then the service you gave it is going to help the cause. Was the fluid discolored? Any symptoms other than the clutch material?
It could have been there for a very long time. It may have accumulated this material just after the build.
g
12-27-2007, 12:50 PM
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They are black on one side and normal red on the other, I thought this was kind of weird because they are so thin if it was caused by heat it seems the whole chip would be black, but I may be wrong.
There were no symtoms of anything, still works as it always did. The fluid looked real good. Not much metal at all. The converter seems ok, the apply has always been as firm as the gear shifts. And it unlocks with little throttle, it gives me the idea it doesn't see a lot of abuse, but thats a guess too.
I've never seen this material in the trans before, like when I rebuilt it I replaced the rev band even though it was probably still good, and all the frictions were as thick as new specs or very close. The front band gets little to no use.
What really sucks is I have a supposed rebuilt '95 and two converters, I wouldn't hesitate to swap out the trans on the road but I just can't bring all that and my jack.
There were no symtoms of anything, still works as it always did. The fluid looked real good. Not much metal at all. The converter seems ok, the apply has always been as firm as the gear shifts. And it unlocks with little throttle, it gives me the idea it doesn't see a lot of abuse, but thats a guess too.
I've never seen this material in the trans before, like when I rebuilt it I replaced the rev band even though it was probably still good, and all the frictions were as thick as new specs or very close. The front band gets little to no use.
What really sucks is I have a supposed rebuilt '95 and two converters, I wouldn't hesitate to swap out the trans on the road but I just can't bring all that and my jack.
