RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

I'm planning on taking in my car and having the transmission rebuilt soon, and was debating on whether or not to go ahead and buy a stall to kill two birds with one stone.

Somewhere along the line, someone put a big cam in my car long before it ever was sold to me, so I've no clue about the specs. I was thinking on getting a 3,000 stall to go along with the rebuild. What do you think? The car has an older 400 with '69 #16 heads, an Edlebrock intake and carb, and is otherwise stock. The next step is going to be a spool and 3.55s.

I'm looking for something that's going to match up well with the gears and cam. The car runs like **** in the quarter and I think it has mostly to do with the rear end and huge cam with no stall. It's peg legging with the stock 2.41s. 3.55s and a big stall should wake things up a bit.

Also, any suggestions on anything else I should get to go along with the rebuild? Shift kits and whatnot..

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

Yes those things will wake it up , I imagie with 241 gears wow I remember those I had T/A with those about that time period and then take away the bottom end torque with a cam. Bet it is a bit on the slow side though I imagine its fun to run up to like 60 and then jerk it back to first floored I would definatly do a stall but only if I could do the rear at the same timeI am not sure you would like a higher stall with the 241 gears.

jetlag

iTrader: (32)

I used to have a 81 Corvette with heads/cam/etc done to it. It had a nice sized cam (Comp Cams XE274 - 230/236/110LSA)...and RaggedRide's Firebird sounds like it has a cam as big as that.

So a stock stall and gears on that cam makes it a turd!

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

Oh yes I once built and engine for a freind he had a 305 originaly in a cutlass we built him a nice 11 to 1 small block and a big cam 350 sounded good but the rear while ordered had not come yet. So he wanted to drive it in the mean time , Well it had 229 gears in it , He went for a spin came back and looked like he was gonna cry , He said it was way slower feeling than his 305 engine unless you held it in first till like 55 then its started pulling hard. But on a launch it wouldnt get out of its own way. But then the 410 gears came and he was a very very happy camper. Well except his speedo broke off in his dash. Parts have to work with each other

RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

Man, it's terrible. I don't even want to post my track times. It really is about as turdlike as can be, but I think the motor has some power to it. Granted, it's old and could use a rebuild, but it runs great. I would like to see what it'd do with a stall and built rear, then go from there.


I'd love to do the rear end build and stall all at once, but I'm going to have to put around with just the trans for awhile. I ain't rich enough to do it all at once!


What stall would you recommend? I'm thinking 3,000, but Jetlag here has me tempted to bump it up to a 3,500-3,800.

jetlag

iTrader: (32)

Haha, well, I would put a 3500+ into a 4L60E...I'm not sure about a 400.

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

A 400 with 241 gears I would not go over 3000 but I would go with a small diameter converter to reduce rotational weight. and assuming that this is the pontiac motor remember they were not known as high reving engines but rather torque monsters.
I can tell you this with a good moderate cam, Some 1.7 rockers. Thats what the chevy 1.6 rockers end up ratio wise with the pontiac engine, You do have to do a little grinding where the pushrods come through. A decent older pre EGR pontiac 4v intake and a well moded quadrajet, You can move a mountain with that thing! from about 1500 to 4500 rpm. I was allways afraid to turn much past 5000 on those have you ever held the crankshaft ? heavy.
I would go with a 2800 or 3000 9.5 inch converter and get those gears ,Better yet a 2004R and that stall an get some gears and you would be a happy guy, Stop light bandit for sure with that combo and 355 or even 373s, I had 411s in mine I liked them too but gas was not 3 dollars a gallon either

RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

4.11s!? Damn I bet it was revving on the highway. I'd like to keep a little bit of top end and gas in the tank, so I was thinking 3.55s. The 2.41s are going to be gone first chance I get, so something to match well with the 3.55s or 73s would be perfect. Whatever's going to drive decent on the way to the track, around town, and shine in the quarter.

I have to be somewhat budget minded, so I'm going to leave the engine alone for now. I'd really like to see what it can do with the trans and rear end built.

Who would you go with on the converter? I got to keep price in mind, but I'd like something decently strong. I've been eyeballin' B&M and TCI. I'm not looking to pull the front wheels and run 9's, just something to set me up for when I get down into the 13s and eventually 12s.

Hurts to admit, but I'm hoping the converter and gears will atleast get me into the 14s without touching the motor. It's unbelieveably slow at the moment.

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

Well you might look at what we have converter wise, But also when I said 373 or 411 that was based on a 2004r overdrive transmission , I would not put 411 with a 3 speed auto now days lol

RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

I like the 9s you have to offer, but I'm keeping things as cheap as possible so I can afford the spool and gears . I've been looking at the B&M Torkmaster and Wholeshot. The Torkmaster is cheap, but isn't rated too high as far as strength goes. The Wholeshot is a bit over $100 more and advertised to hold 550ftlbs. I don't plan on getting that far with this particular car, but past 350 more than likely. Are these ratings super-convservative?


Speaking of cheap... Heard anything bad about the Jegs brand converters? I know price usually means quality, but can they really be that bad?


If I had more dollaz, I'd go all out, but I have to balance price and performance, you know?


I appreciate all of the help

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

You wont see big HP numbers with this engine but alotta torque, And yes thow there is better you can get by with what you are talking about. But 400 ft lbs with these engines is not hard to acheive.

RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

Two things that were on my mind..

Do BOP TH400s use the same converter as a Chevy or is it specific?


I've been reading in the advertisements that alot aren't meant for big blocks. Is this because of the torque they belt out? I know Pontiac didn't really do big and small blocks, but it's somewhere in the middle which is why I was concerned.




I've never gotten into anything more involved than bolt ons and top end engine work, so transmissions are new to me. When I go in and tell them what I want done, are there any specific things I should ask and look for? I want it to shift hard and quickly. I've been looking into shift kits. I'm going to call around tommorrow and get some general quotes. Shouldn't be too expensive with an old ***, mechanically shifted three speed like this.

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

You can use the chevy converter i the BOP aplicatio but make sure you have the dual pattern flexplate,

Transgo is generally considered the best.

Tell the converter manufacturer what you have and they can fix you up .

pontiac is cosidered a mid block little bit of both worlds and alotta torque

RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

Another thing is, what's the difference in a non-lock-up and lock-up transmission? Well, not so much the difference, but how do you determine this?

I've tried without really finding much on the difference

382ssz28

iTrader: (24)

Ragged Rides, there a number of issues you have addressed, but killed every one of them with one word. Cheap! I deal with this every day form my customers up here in Northern Michigan. Our economy is in the crapper. The absolute thing in this life we need to think of first is common sense. Never put money in front of principle or quality! With that being said, and no insult to anyone, let's get started. You need to get a realistic budget on what you're trying to accomplish. You have asperations of going fast. Realistically, this takes a given amount of money. The first thing I do with my customers is find out what he/she has to work with. In your case without a lot of knowledge of your car is to find out the weight and tire size as being on a budget you probably won't spend any money on these items, but this has a lot to do with the out come of your car. Stall is based on your cam specs @.050" lift and also tire size or gear ratio and weight, carb size, trans type, motor type, etc... You have a 400 Pontiac with decent heads. I'm assuming you have a 350 or 400 trans. The 350 could do fine and is a little quicker due to its light weight and gear ratio inside, 2.52, 1.52, 1 to one. A 400 has 2.48, 1.48, and 1 to one ratios. the 400 is stronger and heavier and will slow the car down a little. If you are going to build a high HP motor, over 450HP, use the 400. The price is about the same unless you get the 36 element sprag and drum for the 350. This will add around $300.00-$350.00. The torque converters can be used in either tranny, which by the way, buy a good one. Usually around 300-450.00. Another thing about stall speed. The higher the stall, the more heat will be created. A stand alone cooler is a must over 2000 stall in my opinion. Your 2.41 gears are a death sentence with any kind of stall. The heat generated will kill your trans with 10 coolers. Remember, you are initially re-engineering your car. This is how it can be done on a budget. The Pontiac motor is a torque motor. You must find within your budget what you would like to accomplish. Like most of us, we can do a little at a time or get a loan you can afford to do all of it at once. Assuming you are going to rebuild your motor with forged pistons, stock rods w/good bolts, balanced, etc... I would use a Ram Air 4 cam with the right rocker arms, 1.65 ratio, the stall can be kept to 2400-2800 and mate this with a 3.55 or 3.73 with a 28" tire. 3.42 with a 26". Your 10 bolt rear should hold up to this power fine. You should have a low 13 or high 12 sec. car that is dependable and INEXPENSIVE. If money is an issue, do the rear end first, but make sure you know what you are going to do with the motor. Do the trans next. Build it like you would for the motor you plan to build. The trans will probably shift pretty firm because you're building it for the future. The stall converter will absorb this firm shift when you install it. The firm shift will be there when you get into the throttle and pass the stalls slip point. The converter and cooler can wait. These should be installed with the new motor as you'll need to have the high stall for the bigger cam and the cooler to control the heat. With you doing the R&R work on the motor and trans you should spend around 1400-1800.00 on the motor and parts and machine work, 450-750.00 on the trans,550-800.00 for the rear end, done by a pro, or find one in a salvage yard, and you will have a nice running car on a budget. There is a lot more to think about, but this should give you something to think about. Hope it helps.