99DWPTA

iTrader: (10)

Guys whats the diffrence if you have a 400 whp car and spray a 150 shot through it and spray through the shift on a 150 shot making like 550 whp. Or say have a all motor 550whp or turbo car just making 550whp all the time and full throttle shifting. I mean isnt it technically the same thing?

02 BLK WS6

iTrader: (11)

Usually nitrous puts close to 150% the torque of it's hp rating. 150 hp shot = 225 lb ft of torque. Spraying through the shifts in a stock A4 will kill it quick. I have had good luck with my built 4L60E spraying through the shifts. I have over 100 low 11 sec passes spraying through the shifts and it has never had any issues. The keys to A4 survival in high hp applications is little to no slip, good lube, keep it cool (under 190*F).

99DWPTA

iTrader: (10)

I have a brand new ace racing level 2 with a yank 3600 with about 300 miles on both. I do have a msd digital window switch. however if the car will be a little faster while spraaying through the shift without it harming the trans then i would like to do this.

Gilbert@Ace Racing

I know we discussed this on the telephone yesterday... but I wanted to chime in here for the benefit of others.

While indeed you have one of the finest 4L60E's out there, we strongly urge our clients to not spray through the shifts on any of our electronic overdrive units. Certainly we feel like they can take the punishment, but the wear and tear on the clutches and the hubs is just not worth it in the long run in our opinion. The teeth on the clutches can and will wear prematurely in high torque applications. Couple that with the power adder and then you have a unit that needs to be freshened up often.

Hope that helps.

g

PBA

I agree with you Gilbert, that spraying through the shifts, (especially when you have the capability of not spraying through them) is harder on any transmission, no matter who builds it. If you think you are losing some ET & MPH due to not spraying through the shifts, then add a little more nitrous to make up for not doing this. That way you can get best of both worlds, (ET & MPH with a long transmission life).

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

If you set up a digital window switch VERY meticulously, you will only lose a negligible amount of time not spraying through the shifts. It's not as much time as you would think.

Should you spray through the shifts? Of course not.

Do I? Hell yeah I do.

GT Griller

iTrader: (8)

Do turbo cars turn down the boost during shifts? hellz no they dont, so i wont shut down my nitrous either!!!

Omega Doom

iTrader: (2)

good point! so I guess the alternative is the turbo 350-400

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

I don't see much point. Yes it will reduce strain on the trans some but like mentioned turbo and super charged cars cant be turned off, We have many customers who do spray through the shifts. Does it increase the odds of something breaking or a clutch set failing? Yes but that would be true of any power adder and any transmission or other drive train part. More stress can lead to a greater risk of failure. So in sumary is it a little easier on the trans? YES! much like if you let off the throttle just a little before each shift but it is what it is.

Gilbert@Ace Racing

Thats funny! Thanks for sharing!

Many if not most forced induction setups that are daily driven are not pushing much more than 10 psi., at least not in my experience. Therefore, that is not an undue stress on the unit. If a client of mine wanted a unit that could withstand the stress of say 15 psi or more, I doubt seriously we would be building him a 4L60E. Most of those guys ask us to build 3 speeds or Glides as they are not daily drivers.

The whole idea here is to not cause undue stress or premature failure of the unit. Let's face it guys, most enthusiasts here cannot afford to repair, rebuild or freshen up their unit once or twice a year. That is the reason for the recommendation.

Do we have big tire trailer cars running deep into the 5.xx's on two or more stages of N2O with well over 600 cubes?

Sure we do.

Do those guys use window switches?

Nope.

But, those guys expect a powertrain failure from time to time and budget accordingly.

It is not about whether the unit can handle it... certainly it can. It is about the longevity of the unit. Again, many of my clients have a hard time absorbing the cost of the initial purchase of the unit. My goal here is to help them protect their investment by encouraging them to utilize inexpensive devices like Window Switches.

I don't have a camera here today, but I'll post up a pic of a 3/4 clutch that is worn severly. The friction material is in good shape, but 1/3 of each individual tooth is worn... gone. I'll post that up tomorrow when I get a chance. It will give you guys an idea of what I'm talking about.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

g

oneBADDz

iTrader: (26)

How are you supposed to draw a line between undue stress and expected stress when you are a sprayed or turbo car racing at a drag strip? That's a cloudy line, and I don't feel that spraying a 100 shot though the shifts is any more undue stress than 10psi of a turbo car. A window switch can be a great idea and it definitely has it's place. that place is 200rpm after the shift point in a built auto in case something goes wrong, but not between shifts. My builder says he built it and I can spray the **** out of it If you are spraying and racing at a track and don't expect a powertrain failure than you're in the wrong game.

PBA

When 2004R's were starting to go much quicker, we thought of about it. What if we could shut off the turbo boost for a flash of a second during the shift, as this would be much easier on the transmission. But no answer here. When the window switch came along for nitrous, this was a great idea. Why not use what is "available", when it comes to extending the life of the unit when possible.

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

As mentioned its not a matter of cant handle it , Its really a matter of stress, And it does not matter if its a turbo or blower or NOS , The more power you put through the trans the sooner it will likely see a failure like any drive train parts. For instance the stock trans in a stock car will most times easily see 100000 miles. But when you start running the power up they often fail much much sooner, The window switch which is strictly a matter of choice is a unique ability to reduce this stress momentarily during the shifts .
The big thing is don't expect the trans or any drive line part to last as long as the whole stock setup in high power applications.
Me I would likely spray through the shifts with my own car but then I have been into performance cars for 25 years I know the risk and the possible results of playing to hard. Its when you don't understand that is when comes the problem. Like a mechanic told me when I was 16 and broke the rear in my car, axles came out ripped two brand new 300 dollar each tires to shreds. "If you play you pay,If you don't wanna pay then get out of the game" A very true statement even today.

xxtheonlyxx

iTrader: (22)

I would advise against it on a regular basis. I'm on my 4th tranny (3rd rebuild) 1st I destoyed while making 418 on motor. Second was rated to 600whp but I sprayed midway into second and obliterated 3rd gear. After that I got a Terminator 3 from Rossler and destroyed the drum. Since they rebuilt it with a stronger drum its been fine, but I only spray through the shift every now and then. After going through having to cut/clean the converter twice, and wait for the tranny to be fixed I just dont feel its worth it.

GT Griller

iTrader: (8)

I agree....i dont recomend it, but if ur not scared of breaking something then go ahead and do it....and if u are sacred then dont race, cause whether u spray or not ur tranny will see stress under WOT.

OneBADDz and I have the same builder, he told us both to spray the **** out of it so we do...lol

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

We are in agreement if your afraid don't play its that simple.

james562

iTrader: (35)

A tenth .1 is not worth having to pull my tranny and send it in every 6 months to a year to have it gone through...


But if your best buddy is a bad *** tranny builder and works for cheap/free then have at it... spray that bitch to the death

oneBADDz

iTrader: (26)

We are by no means saying not to use one so much as we are playing devil's advocate. I haven't sent my tranny in to be gone through, because the builder says it will take it and to just run it.

The "race cars with turbos only run around 10psi or don't run a 4l60e" doesn't include our builder's WIFE in her DD. It's not only turbo'd, it's sprayed too. I don't know but I do doubt that one is sprayed through the shifts though.


I think it's all about who your builder is, how confident they are, and how well they stand behind the build. I 100% trust our sponsors here and almost had to use them because there was no one local that would put their word a race oriented 4l60e build. I did find the one guy that would though and he has proven to be great. If you don't have someone local and trustworthy and have to mail order a transmission, I would be more careful too.

Gilbert@Ace Racing

Good thread guys...

It is very important to keep in mind that all of us Sponsors are in the Racing Transmission business. I'm pretty sure you won't find a lack of confidence from any of us! It's what we do every day we wake up.

To read between the lines here, anyone who is concerned with the idea of whether or not to spray during shifts is looking for advice. Advice is driven by opinions and experience. In my experience, ACE Racing Transmissions has not had a problem with anyone spraying through shifts. And we don't expect to see it either.

The reason is simple, the vast majority of our clients who run a 4L60E are making between 400 and 500 H/P. I am not concerned with the transmissions ability to live in in that environment.

I am concerned with my clients propensity to have their car down for repairs when the unit wears out though, and am concerned with their ability to fund those repairs should the unit fail out of Warranty. Most of our clients are under the age of 28 yrs. old. They have expendable income. They have nice cars and want to go fast with few hassles.

But, that also means that they are inexperienced in the world of High Performance machinery. So, that means I / we have to help set reasonable expectations for the products they purchase, it is our responsibility to do that as Business Owners. Therefore, I always error on the conservative side. I always recommend that my clients do not spray through shifts on our 4L60E's.

Now, that being said... yesterday I took in a '99 Z28 with 2 power adders, an F1 pushing 11 psi and a wet 100 shot. He has Wolf suspension, M/T slicks and runs mid to low 6.xx's. Before he left the car he had a clear understanding that it is not a matter of if the unit will fail, but when. We discussed options and each others expectations should the unit fail inside it's Warranty period and otherwise. He has no problems either way because he knows that he is now my customer and I'll take care of him either way. Anyone who knows me or who has done business with me knows that I believe that there is no reason for a guy to have to spend anywhere near the original purchase cost should his unit fail out of warranty.

But, it is such a rare occurance I don't really get too concerned with it. Here at ACE we have had three units fail since we have become Sponsors here. One had a Forward Piston crack, one grenaded the Output Planets when the rear axle Pinion Gear failed on a hard launch at the track and one last week shelled itself when a converter bearing failed... it was ugly. None of those guys was still in Warranty, and none of them paid anywhere near the original purchase price.

So, the reality is. If you understand what the game is, play it and play hard! I just love to see our clients hanging the front tires at the track!

g

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

You always have a very class-act response Gilbert.

I use the same guy as oneBADDz and GTGriller up in Amarillo. He has considered semi-retiring and if he does I'll probably come see you! There is no one else locally that will stand behind the product. With the new build I'm shooting for 7500-7600rpm, I WON'T spray through the shifts anymore at that rpm. I just hope it holds at that RPM, I need to call my builder and see what he thinks about it.