Wilde Racing

iTrader: (26)

I finally got started on my 4l80e rebuild. I'm to the point of rebuilding the Direct Clutch assy. I have a Transgo HD-2 rebuild kit and I replaced the springs on the direct drive assy, but the Transgo instruction specify to make sure and use a wave or cushion plate with their kit. My trans had already been rebuilt for performance. It had no wave plate and stock return spring, but instead had additional composite friction plate.



SO.......
Which is better?
A direct drum assy with 6 sets of plates, stock springs, with no cushion?
OR
A direct drum assy with 5 sets of plates, Transgo springs, with a cushion plate?

It seams to me the additional plates would have a better 2>3 shift, but the heavy duty springs would have a better 3>2 down shift.... sound right?

performabuilt2

on my 400s I personally leave out the wave plate and take every other return spring out. if you use thinner steels and a thin piston you can stack 7 frictions in it not that its needed but you can lol...To add this is on my personal builds.

Firechikn

iTrader: (15)

I took out the wave plate also.

9000th01ss

iTrader: (10)

I have 8 plates in mine. It came stock like that. I got rid of the spring steel cushion plate for a old type th400 steel wave plate. Still 8 frictions.

Wilde Racing

iTrader: (26)

i talked to a transgo they said ALWAS ALWAS run a wave plate. the tech said you will brake an input shaft before you slip that clutch.
??????

9000th01ss

iTrader: (10)

Yea my dually can chirp second and third with the waved plate. Some builders recommend two waved plates.

Just don't use the stock blue spring steel convex plate, they break. Use the old th400 waved plate.

PBA

The stiffer return springs are there for few reasons. One, quicker downshifts. Two, smoother apply at light throttle openings. Three, they keep the clutches from getting into trouble in the top end of first gear from accidently coming on from centrifuging. The waved steel/s keep/s the splines from taking a hard hit by preloading it. In otherwords the waved steel takes up the slack before the clutches are completely applied. You won't feel the difference when using a waved steel, but the transmission will know in the long run. Do not leave the center seal out of the direct/reverse drum, as this can aggrevate the centrifuging situation. Set the clutch clearance at .060" - .080". This makes for a smoother reverse, by allowing the rear band to come on first instead of this clutch pack applying first. Also when making a 2-3 manual shift, it will allow the 2nd gear band to come off completely before the 3rd gear clutches come on, this will prevent the band from glazing.

WeRKatet

Rebuilding a 4l80e. The forward drum clutches and steels are shot and the wave plate is destroyed. Somehow it twisted in the drum and folded the 6 tabs down. Actually reading right now to try and find out why

truckdoug

iTrader: (25)

old thread with some suspect info. keep digging my dude.

WeRKatet

thanks. I went ahead and ordered a new wave plate. to replace it because I'm only doing a simple rebuild. No extra bells and whistles lol. Only thing I upgraded were the clutch packs. I've heard a lot about replacing the wave plate with a wave plate out of a th400 and far as I can tell they are interchangeable so I went with that.

MaroonMonsterLS1

Order a th400 wave plate. They are thicker.
The 4l80e wave plate is paper thin and if it gets flattened out a bit, it will fall into the cleanout groove

You do not need wave in the direct despite what the above info might say.
A wave in the fwd isn't going to be an issue, unless it does what happened to yours.
Otherwise, it's usually nice for softening the "driveway shift"

PBA

What is the disadvantage of running a waved steel under the flat steel here? There is none. As I stated, you are eliminating some of the "shock" on the shift. And it is much easier on the splines. There are no drawbacks. I use the TH400 waved steel in all forward and direct setups. Even the Intermediate clutch setup should have the waved steel if possible, as this is much easier on the 34 element sprag. Either way, it is your choice as to which way you go here.

truckdoug

iTrader: (25)

IME, the disadvantage of putting a wave in the direct is you cant fit the extra friction in there. Do you need it? well above about 800 hp with the converter locked on the dyno, it's generally the first thing that slips. I think most folks have the sense to upgrade the input shaft and forward drum at that power level so spline blowout isnt much of a problem.

truckdoug

iTrader: (25)

oops i meant forward hub

MaroonMonsterLS1

the disadvantage of using a wave in the fwd, is that the late 80e wave is paper thin and there are many accounts of it getting stuck in the cleanout groove and resulting in no fwd movement.
The intermediate wave is usually a fine thing to use if keeping the 34 element sprag. Reducing shock
The direct wave I do not like for a couple reasons.
1. clearance
2. drag
They go hand in hand. If you run a direct drum with a wave, and enough clearance to not have drag...then total piston travel becomes in the neighborhood of .080-.090...way too large IMO
If you run a wave and keep piston travel in the .050-.060 range then the clearance gets shrunk down too tight and you'll notice drag
No wave, .050-.060 clearance is .050-.060 piston travel also. Best of both worlds.
Running no wave generally does not add or remove from any added stress on the input. And if it does, the input was due to be upgraded anyway.

tayto

I hate to get offtopic here, but have heard that dual feeding a 4L80E is not advisable for a “heavy duty" truck that backs up a lot ie: plowtruck, work truck with trailer, towing boat often, etc. as if you do not wait for eveything to "latch up" in reverse it can cause stress on the directs. would not having a waved steel in the directs help this? ie: tighter clearance for it to engage and disengage the direct clutch pack and less drag. thanks.

5.7stroker

iTrader: (36)

A TH400 wave is .060" thick. Can you get proper clearance with 5x .077" steels and that TH400 wave in the forward using the standard bonded piston?
How thick is a 4L80E 97-up wave plate?

vorteciroc

You can safely go with a tight clearance with the forward clutches... 0.020" is fine here.

MaroonMonsterLS1

Nail on the head
Clearance will be tighter with the thicker wave, but it is OK
The FWD is always engaged except reverse

And for some reason, I don't see the need to minimize drag in that pack just for reverse haha

tayto

I asked dana and he said he had never heard this problem. I have built a few 700s and a buddy wants me to rebuild the 4l80e in his 92 GMC that he uses for landscaping. I want to dual feed but not familiar with this trans at all. sounds like increasing the reverse orfice in the separator plate or (worst case) removing the reverse checkball will make this more "user" friendly. while it's easy for the builder to say wait 2 seconds while switching from D to R, in the real world this probably won't happen or will be forgotten.