17 Years old... and Time for COLLEGE.
02-19-2010, 09:01 AM
#42
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Why don't you take a tour at both SAM and UT and see which one you like best or is better suited for what you want to do with your life. We have a very unique program here at SAM. There is no one else in the country that offers what we do or has the reputation that we have in the motorsports industry.
02-21-2010, 12:56 AM
#43
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Air force has TONS of benefits.. its almost a no brain-er for me..
talk to a local recruiter if I were you..
I already signed up for basic training when i get outta highschool..
you also get a nice 2year signing bonus
depending on what you choose and how long 2yr vs 4yr or 6yr
talk to a local recruiter if I were you..
I already signed up for basic training when i get outta highschool..
you also get a nice 2year signing bonus
depending on what you choose and how long 2yr vs 4yr or 6yr
02-21-2010, 01:20 AM
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If you want to eventually own your own place, I would suggest getting into the field and gaining experience, and plan on opening your own business sometime down the road.
02-22-2010, 12:49 PM
#45
Here is the deal with SAM or UTI. They all want big bucks and will help you become a tech. They will also give you experience.
I went to Kettering Unversity the old GMI in Flint, Mi. I will be the first one to tell you the school sucked ***, but the program was awesome. I graduate highschool at 17 and started classes in October of the following year. You go to school for 3 months then work for 3 months. It is a paid program for work and you get real engineering experience.
I will tell you, I still play around with going to SAM's, but for that much money hell no. I am graudating at just over 20k debt becuase of the co-op program and scholarships. I have a great understanding of engines and now I know how the changes I make effect my engine and what they are doing. Now I am learning techniques from builders and I understand how what they are doing makes power, many builders just know what they have done and how to do it to do it the best but not why.
The best place to gain experience is in the mainstream manufacturer's world. They have the most knowledge and the most money to throw around on ideas. Let me tell you first hand, I have seen many things and worked around many things that people can only dream of, and when I start my own shop I will have these expereinces to build from.
I would highly encourage you to pursuing engineering. I am getting hired with 2 years of experience into the company I wanted to work for since high school, and I am still pursuing my dream of a performance shop building high end custom engines and cars. What better to start from than mechanical engineering? I can now understand how I want things built, I undrestand all the system interactions, and how to build them. It is always harder to go back for school than it is to just do it right after high school. If you aren't cut out for it oh well at least you tried pursuing your dreams and thats alot more than most can say.
Also, just a warning from what I have seen, management is good but is very limited in where it can take you. If you want to simply manage a team great, such as a restrauant or a business team. If you want to manage in the engineering world, a management degree means nothing, you have to have an undrestanding of what you are managing and without technical back ground its very hard. I owned a business in high school and was very successful, and I did this without a management degree; although, don't take this as its wrothless. I am planning on getting my MBA because it is helpful in knowning how to run a full fledged business and with management but it is not necessary.
You have to keep in mind that SAM or UTI wouldn't be there and able to work or make money if engineers didn't develop the motors.
ME's average around 70k at my school, after graduating. I know people who graduated at 120K + debt but both cases spent about 8K a semster on miscellaneous things and one bought a new EVO (not sure why).
I have a friend who went to UTI and me and him build and work on alot of motors, he is absolutely great turning wrenches and putting things together, but he has a hell of time keeping a job. He is severly underpaid, and no matter where he goes, he is usually unhappy. It is very very very very very hard to get out of UTI or SAM's and find a steady job at a performance shop turning wrenches on a motor. He worked at a couple performance shops he liked but you have to do whatever the owner tells you, and if the owner is decent. He could easily tell you go do the oil change that just came in on the customers race car and he can do the cool project. See what I am saying... Also, SAM's or UTI really doesn't teach you how to tune or give you an understanding of what you are doing, something else that is key to a performance shop.
You can do what you want but you have to be smart and understand what your goal is. Just because you are giong to school for longer and its expensive doesn't mean you can't get a job or get federal help or get scholarships. In order to make good money and have a great education it no doubt takes sacrifices.
I went to Kettering Unversity the old GMI in Flint, Mi. I will be the first one to tell you the school sucked ***, but the program was awesome. I graduate highschool at 17 and started classes in October of the following year. You go to school for 3 months then work for 3 months. It is a paid program for work and you get real engineering experience.
I will tell you, I still play around with going to SAM's, but for that much money hell no. I am graudating at just over 20k debt becuase of the co-op program and scholarships. I have a great understanding of engines and now I know how the changes I make effect my engine and what they are doing. Now I am learning techniques from builders and I understand how what they are doing makes power, many builders just know what they have done and how to do it to do it the best but not why.
The best place to gain experience is in the mainstream manufacturer's world. They have the most knowledge and the most money to throw around on ideas. Let me tell you first hand, I have seen many things and worked around many things that people can only dream of, and when I start my own shop I will have these expereinces to build from.
I would highly encourage you to pursuing engineering. I am getting hired with 2 years of experience into the company I wanted to work for since high school, and I am still pursuing my dream of a performance shop building high end custom engines and cars. What better to start from than mechanical engineering? I can now understand how I want things built, I undrestand all the system interactions, and how to build them. It is always harder to go back for school than it is to just do it right after high school. If you aren't cut out for it oh well at least you tried pursuing your dreams and thats alot more than most can say.
Also, just a warning from what I have seen, management is good but is very limited in where it can take you. If you want to simply manage a team great, such as a restrauant or a business team. If you want to manage in the engineering world, a management degree means nothing, you have to have an undrestanding of what you are managing and without technical back ground its very hard. I owned a business in high school and was very successful, and I did this without a management degree; although, don't take this as its wrothless. I am planning on getting my MBA because it is helpful in knowning how to run a full fledged business and with management but it is not necessary.
You have to keep in mind that SAM or UTI wouldn't be there and able to work or make money if engineers didn't develop the motors.
ME's average around 70k at my school, after graduating. I know people who graduated at 120K + debt but both cases spent about 8K a semster on miscellaneous things and one bought a new EVO (not sure why).
I have a friend who went to UTI and me and him build and work on alot of motors, he is absolutely great turning wrenches and putting things together, but he has a hell of time keeping a job. He is severly underpaid, and no matter where he goes, he is usually unhappy. It is very very very very very hard to get out of UTI or SAM's and find a steady job at a performance shop turning wrenches on a motor. He worked at a couple performance shops he liked but you have to do whatever the owner tells you, and if the owner is decent. He could easily tell you go do the oil change that just came in on the customers race car and he can do the cool project. See what I am saying... Also, SAM's or UTI really doesn't teach you how to tune or give you an understanding of what you are doing, something else that is key to a performance shop.
You can do what you want but you have to be smart and understand what your goal is. Just because you are giong to school for longer and its expensive doesn't mean you can't get a job or get federal help or get scholarships. In order to make good money and have a great education it no doubt takes sacrifices.
Last edited by Radcannon; 02-22-2010 at 01:05 PM.
02-22-2010, 09:12 PM
#46
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im a freshman at northern illinois (good engineering school) im currently an industrial engineer and i have to tell you it is HARD, if you do not have the drive or ambition to do it, dont waste your time. Also you HAVE to be able to be able to test into higher level math and science classes your first semester. for a 4 year degree in mechanical or industrial engineering you must test into calculus 1, physics 250 (upper level) with the lab, and chem 210 (again upper level) with lab. this is what screwed me because i only tested into math 155 (trig) and without that i cant even test into chem or physics. So now i am at ground zero and looking at about 5.5-6 years to get a BS in industrial engineering. which is why i might be switching my major to business and going into law, it might take 6 years but ill have 2 degrees.
on another note i know several of my classmates from my auto class last year that went to UTI. one who graduated top of his class and top of the harley davidson class is still unemployed, times are tough and it seems a little harder to get a job. I do however know one of the head guys at UTI who actually does a lot of recruiting stuff, hes an older guy who is really cool (has about 26 cars in his collection) who im sure would be willing to talk to you and answer any questions without being pushy like an army recruiter. (pm me if you want)
it all really boils down to what you want, can you see yourself wrenching under a hood the rest of your life? or do you have the drive to work your *** off through college to get an ME degree?
on another note i know several of my classmates from my auto class last year that went to UTI. one who graduated top of his class and top of the harley davidson class is still unemployed, times are tough and it seems a little harder to get a job. I do however know one of the head guys at UTI who actually does a lot of recruiting stuff, hes an older guy who is really cool (has about 26 cars in his collection) who im sure would be willing to talk to you and answer any questions without being pushy like an army recruiter. (pm me if you want)
it all really boils down to what you want, can you see yourself wrenching under a hood the rest of your life? or do you have the drive to work your *** off through college to get an ME degree?
02-23-2010, 09:10 AM
#47
Hey man, I was telling him from what I have seen. You guys have an excellent program yes, I even looked into attending, but this is still not an engineering program. This is what he was asking for.
You got pretty defensive there and even said,
Don't sit there with your 3 month mechanic degree from Kettering and tell me that you know more about engines than we do. .
You might want to look into what you are talking about. It is a 5 year program that is number 2 in the US for Mechanical Engineers and has been number 1 for Inudstrial for the last 4 years running. It also offers the opportunity to work for major suppliers from GM and Ford in the autmotive to Pratt and Whitney, Stryker, Borg Warner, TRW... over 500 companies, and you graduate with that experience. I graduated with 2 years of real world experience with my degree. If this is something you are interested in look into it too, you just sacrifice the college experience for knowledge and HOPEFULLY ONE DAY wealth!!!! hahaha
Again if you read my post it said you can learn alot from these training schools which are hands on, but this doesn't mean you will have an understanding of whats going on. Its like going to massage therapy training, you can get certified in 3 months. Yes you might know how to make the person feel awesome when they are done, but do you have more knowledge than a physical therapist that went to school for 4+ years? Not at all my man. This is the same idea, you can go to these schools and learn how to make great power out of motors, but really think about it hard before you decide this. Where is the world going in the next 20 years, what fuel will we be using, what propulsion systems will be in vehicles, an engineering degree will allow you to compete and still pursuing your passion. I will admit SAM's is a very specialized school though, and just from my point of view the world is changing rapidly and you want job security. Hard to obtain with a specialized degree in a fast changing field such as automotive.
How much theory can you really get in 3-9 months of SAM's classes? Can you go into Internal Combustion Engines, Physics of waves, Advanced Propulsion Systems, Advanced Automotive Powertrain, Chemistry behind fuels, Energy Systems Lab which varies from heat transfer labs to pump labs to vehicle road load simulations to fluid dynamics. At the end of the day the engineers develop the heads, the computers, the blocks that you guys wrench on, so from this point of view yes an engineer will understand engines better. Do they know where to point the grinder to make the most flow? Probably not but this is easier to learn than going to college for 5 years. This is the same thing, you understand how to tune and whats probably acceptable to you, but do you know why you have these limits and have to tune things certain ways? That aside, if you had the same budget as me you could probably kick my *** up and down the track. That is why after finishing my engineering degree I still want to attend SAM's, but I cannot fork out the money nor take time off my job. You guys do awesome things.
The best engine builder has engineering knowledge, just as the best mechanical engineer understands how motors are built.
ON that note, industrial engineers are more of plant guys, which are very competitive pay rates to ME's sometimes more. IE's are more managers though, make sure that the plants are set up the best and most efficient. They do time studies to reduce head count and so on. You do not need to be good at math for an IE, they use mainly prob stats. They really only go up to Calc 2 I believe, an ME needs to go through Diff Eq and some other higher level math classes depending on University. Don't let this scare you though, if you are only in Calc now thats fine it juts means a little more math work. Just if its taxing and hard now GET ON TOP OF IT. You will not regret it.
You got pretty defensive there and even said,
Don't sit there with your 3 month mechanic degree from Kettering and tell me that you know more about engines than we do. .
You might want to look into what you are talking about. It is a 5 year program that is number 2 in the US for Mechanical Engineers and has been number 1 for Inudstrial for the last 4 years running. It also offers the opportunity to work for major suppliers from GM and Ford in the autmotive to Pratt and Whitney, Stryker, Borg Warner, TRW... over 500 companies, and you graduate with that experience. I graduated with 2 years of real world experience with my degree. If this is something you are interested in look into it too, you just sacrifice the college experience for knowledge and HOPEFULLY ONE DAY wealth!!!! hahaha
Again if you read my post it said you can learn alot from these training schools which are hands on, but this doesn't mean you will have an understanding of whats going on. Its like going to massage therapy training, you can get certified in 3 months. Yes you might know how to make the person feel awesome when they are done, but do you have more knowledge than a physical therapist that went to school for 4+ years? Not at all my man. This is the same idea, you can go to these schools and learn how to make great power out of motors, but really think about it hard before you decide this. Where is the world going in the next 20 years, what fuel will we be using, what propulsion systems will be in vehicles, an engineering degree will allow you to compete and still pursuing your passion. I will admit SAM's is a very specialized school though, and just from my point of view the world is changing rapidly and you want job security. Hard to obtain with a specialized degree in a fast changing field such as automotive.
How much theory can you really get in 3-9 months of SAM's classes? Can you go into Internal Combustion Engines, Physics of waves, Advanced Propulsion Systems, Advanced Automotive Powertrain, Chemistry behind fuels, Energy Systems Lab which varies from heat transfer labs to pump labs to vehicle road load simulations to fluid dynamics. At the end of the day the engineers develop the heads, the computers, the blocks that you guys wrench on, so from this point of view yes an engineer will understand engines better. Do they know where to point the grinder to make the most flow? Probably not but this is easier to learn than going to college for 5 years. This is the same thing, you understand how to tune and whats probably acceptable to you, but do you know why you have these limits and have to tune things certain ways? That aside, if you had the same budget as me you could probably kick my *** up and down the track. That is why after finishing my engineering degree I still want to attend SAM's, but I cannot fork out the money nor take time off my job. You guys do awesome things.
The best engine builder has engineering knowledge, just as the best mechanical engineer understands how motors are built.
ON that note, industrial engineers are more of plant guys, which are very competitive pay rates to ME's sometimes more. IE's are more managers though, make sure that the plants are set up the best and most efficient. They do time studies to reduce head count and so on. You do not need to be good at math for an IE, they use mainly prob stats. They really only go up to Calc 2 I believe, an ME needs to go through Diff Eq and some other higher level math classes depending on University. Don't let this scare you though, if you are only in Calc now thats fine it juts means a little more math work. Just if its taxing and hard now GET ON TOP OF IT. You will not regret it.
Last edited by Radcannon; 02-23-2010 at 09:25 AM.
02-23-2010, 01:25 PM
#48
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IEs and SEs go through the same math as an ME. I wasnt saying that you were wrong or anything but if he was looking between ME and going to UTI theres just things you have to figure out. A guy with an ME degree isnt going to be working on cars hands on because more than likely he is going to take the job that pays more which will probably have something to do with CAD or more work on a computer than anything. If you go to a trade school you are more likely to work on cars hands on, thats all.
again my first post was just my point of view.
again my first post was just my point of view.
02-24-2010, 12:42 PM
#49
IE's do not go through the same math. Here is the IE curriculum.
BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN INDUSTRIAL ENGINEERING
CURRICULUM CONTENT
Area Courses Credit Hours
Basic Sciences
Industrial Organic Chemistry and Lab 4
Newtonian Mechanics and Lab 4
Electricity & Magnetism and Lab 4
Principles of Chemistry and Lab 4
Science or Math Elective 4
20 Credits Total
Engineering Core
Engineering Graphical Communication 4
Interdisciplinary Design and Manufacturing 4
Mechanics I 4
12 Total
General Education
Advanced Humanities Elective 4
Advanced Social Science Elective 4
Economic Principles 4
Introduction to the Humanities 4
Introduction to the Social Sciences 4
Senior Seminar: Leadership, Ethics and Contemp. Issues 4
Written & Oral Communication I 4
Written & Oral Communication II 4
32 Total
Industrial
Algorithms and Computer Programming 4
Engineering Core Applied Control Systems Design 4
Engineering Materials 4
Engineering Statistics II:
Statistical Inference and Regression 2 (1 hour lab)
Engineering Statistics III: Design of Experiments 2 (1 hour lab)
Quality Systems I: Quality Assurance 4
Senior Design Project 4
Systems Analysis I: Engineering Cost Analysis 4
Systems Analysis II: Production Systems Design 4
Systems Analysis III: Scheduling 4
Systems Modeling I: Deterministic Models 4
Systems Modeling II: Simulation 4
Work Design I: Methods & Standards 4
Work Design II: Ergonomics 4
52 Total
Mathematics
Calculus I 4
Calculus II 4
Engineering Statistics II:
Statistical Inference and Regression 21
Engineering Statistics III: Design of Experiments 21
Multivariate Calculus 4
Probability and Statistics 4
20 Total Highest level is Calc 3 (Multivariate Calculus), notice majority of math classes are statistics.
Industrial Engineering Cognate
(three IME electives) 12
Free Electives 8
(Both IME and Free electives may be used to complete a non-IE minor)
Learning, Success, and Teamwork 1
Thesis 4
Total Credits 161
Here is ME degree.
BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING
CURRICULUM CONTENT
Area Courses Credit Hours
General Education
Advanced Humanities Elective 4
Advanced Social Science Elective 4
Economic Principles 4
Introduction to the Humanities 4
Introduction to the Social Sciences 4
Senior Seminar: Leadership, Ethics and Contemp. Issues 4
Written & Oral Communication I 4
Written & Oral Communication II 4
32 Total
Basic Sciences
Industrial Organic Chemistry and Lab1 4
Newtonian Mechanics and Lab 4
Electricity and Magnetism and Lab 4
Principles of Chemistry and Lab 4
16 Total
Mathematics Calculus I 4
Calculus II 4
Differential Equations and Laplace Transforms 4
Multivariate Calculus 4
Numerical Methods and Matrices 4
Probability and Statistics 4
24 Total Notice more classes and less prob stats. IE's heavily involved in prob stats.
Mechanical Engineering
Computer Aided Engineering 4
Required Courses Mechanical Component Design I 4
Dynamic Systems I 4
Dynamics Systems II 4
Energy Systems Laboratory 4
Engineering Graphical Communication 4
Engineering Materials 4
Fluid Mechanics 4
Heat Transfer 4
Interdisciplinary Design and Manufacturing 4
Introduction to Mechanical System Design 4
Statics 4
Mechanics of Materials 4
Dynamics 4
Signals for Mechanical Systems1 4
Thermodynamics 4
64 Total
Concentration
Free Electives 8
Mechanical Engineering Electives 8
Mechanical Engineering Senior Design Project 4
20 Total
Learning, Success, and Teamwork 1
Thesis 4
Total Credits 161
That is from Kettering University most programs are similar. Kettering requires roughly 40 credits more than most universities a few of the undergrad classes are grad level classes. Also keep in mind a semster is 11 weeks of classes, work term is 10-12 weeks could be less if you request. Work term is very flexible. Classes are four times a week (1 hour a piece) or twice a week (2 hours).
If you choose to pursue this and fast track your life I highly recommend Kettering University. Getting an ME Degree with an Automotive Concentration does not mean you won't be working on vehicles. My hands were dirty three times today from root causing turbo failures and documenting them. I know guys working at GM racing division who are engineers constantly tweaking things. I know guys with engineering degrees working for performance shops (2 of them are owners with ME degrees), I know a guy working for diablo doing tuners who is an engineer and constantly working on cars. The difference between an engineer and technician is you have the ability to work on vehicles but you don't have to. YOu have technicians that can do your job when asked. Don't think if you pursue engineering you only sit at a desk NOT TRUE.
To the SAM's guy... check out where some Kettering Grads are now.
http://www.kettering.edu/alumni/dist...hed_alumni.jsp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettering_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...versity_people
We are known for pumping out high end engineers who are distinguished and excel in their fields. If you are doing well in high school and do well on your ACT, you will most likely recieve close to a full ride, you must at least be in Pre-Calc (the higher the better because it will hang you up). Also you get to keep co-op money and graduate with 2 years of experience. You also have the chance to work along a professor on a thesis project, such as how to improve turbo efficiencies by changing blade material. How to implement VCR on an ICE and how to control it. List goes on, any thing you can think of or interests you is an opporutnity for a thesis.
Co-op jobs almost garuantee placement.... Fore warning there is just over a 40% drop out rate but we have close to 100% employement after graduation. I think we are in the high 90%. Got a friend who worked for a company co-oping as an IE and got hired out of school at 84k a year starting. Know another person who got hired in the upper 70k before graduating school because they wanted him that bad.
That being said, Kettering University used to be General Motors Institute (GM used to teach their young engineers through this University and then hired in 100% of graduates) and is still heavily tied to GM. GM still employees the largest percentage of students and hires the most students out of Kettering. Right now I know GM is expanding to new students. They are looking for at least 6 new co-ops who are going for Mechanical Engineering. IF you are serious about GM this is the place and this is the time to pursue it. GM is on the rebound ad we are expanding and hiring.
BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN INDUSTRIAL ENGINEERING
CURRICULUM CONTENT
Area Courses Credit Hours
Basic Sciences
Industrial Organic Chemistry and Lab 4
Newtonian Mechanics and Lab 4
Electricity & Magnetism and Lab 4
Principles of Chemistry and Lab 4
Science or Math Elective 4
20 Credits Total
Engineering Core
Engineering Graphical Communication 4
Interdisciplinary Design and Manufacturing 4
Mechanics I 4
12 Total
General Education
Advanced Humanities Elective 4
Advanced Social Science Elective 4
Economic Principles 4
Introduction to the Humanities 4
Introduction to the Social Sciences 4
Senior Seminar: Leadership, Ethics and Contemp. Issues 4
Written & Oral Communication I 4
Written & Oral Communication II 4
32 Total
Industrial
Algorithms and Computer Programming 4
Engineering Core Applied Control Systems Design 4
Engineering Materials 4
Engineering Statistics II:
Statistical Inference and Regression 2 (1 hour lab)
Engineering Statistics III: Design of Experiments 2 (1 hour lab)
Quality Systems I: Quality Assurance 4
Senior Design Project 4
Systems Analysis I: Engineering Cost Analysis 4
Systems Analysis II: Production Systems Design 4
Systems Analysis III: Scheduling 4
Systems Modeling I: Deterministic Models 4
Systems Modeling II: Simulation 4
Work Design I: Methods & Standards 4
Work Design II: Ergonomics 4
52 Total
Mathematics
Calculus I 4
Calculus II 4
Engineering Statistics II:
Statistical Inference and Regression 21
Engineering Statistics III: Design of Experiments 21
Multivariate Calculus 4
Probability and Statistics 4
20 Total Highest level is Calc 3 (Multivariate Calculus), notice majority of math classes are statistics.
Industrial Engineering Cognate
(three IME electives) 12
Free Electives 8
(Both IME and Free electives may be used to complete a non-IE minor)
Learning, Success, and Teamwork 1
Thesis 4
Total Credits 161
Here is ME degree.
BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING
CURRICULUM CONTENT
Area Courses Credit Hours
General Education
Advanced Humanities Elective 4
Advanced Social Science Elective 4
Economic Principles 4
Introduction to the Humanities 4
Introduction to the Social Sciences 4
Senior Seminar: Leadership, Ethics and Contemp. Issues 4
Written & Oral Communication I 4
Written & Oral Communication II 4
32 Total
Basic Sciences
Industrial Organic Chemistry and Lab1 4
Newtonian Mechanics and Lab 4
Electricity and Magnetism and Lab 4
Principles of Chemistry and Lab 4
16 Total
Mathematics Calculus I 4
Calculus II 4
Differential Equations and Laplace Transforms 4
Multivariate Calculus 4
Numerical Methods and Matrices 4
Probability and Statistics 4
24 Total Notice more classes and less prob stats. IE's heavily involved in prob stats.
Mechanical Engineering
Computer Aided Engineering 4
Required Courses Mechanical Component Design I 4
Dynamic Systems I 4
Dynamics Systems II 4
Energy Systems Laboratory 4
Engineering Graphical Communication 4
Engineering Materials 4
Fluid Mechanics 4
Heat Transfer 4
Interdisciplinary Design and Manufacturing 4
Introduction to Mechanical System Design 4
Statics 4
Mechanics of Materials 4
Dynamics 4
Signals for Mechanical Systems1 4
Thermodynamics 4
64 Total
Concentration
Free Electives 8
Mechanical Engineering Electives 8
Mechanical Engineering Senior Design Project 4
20 Total
Learning, Success, and Teamwork 1
Thesis 4
Total Credits 161
That is from Kettering University most programs are similar. Kettering requires roughly 40 credits more than most universities a few of the undergrad classes are grad level classes. Also keep in mind a semster is 11 weeks of classes, work term is 10-12 weeks could be less if you request. Work term is very flexible. Classes are four times a week (1 hour a piece) or twice a week (2 hours).
If you choose to pursue this and fast track your life I highly recommend Kettering University. Getting an ME Degree with an Automotive Concentration does not mean you won't be working on vehicles. My hands were dirty three times today from root causing turbo failures and documenting them. I know guys working at GM racing division who are engineers constantly tweaking things. I know guys with engineering degrees working for performance shops (2 of them are owners with ME degrees), I know a guy working for diablo doing tuners who is an engineer and constantly working on cars. The difference between an engineer and technician is you have the ability to work on vehicles but you don't have to. YOu have technicians that can do your job when asked. Don't think if you pursue engineering you only sit at a desk NOT TRUE.
To the SAM's guy... check out where some Kettering Grads are now.
http://www.kettering.edu/alumni/dist...hed_alumni.jsp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettering_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...versity_people
We are known for pumping out high end engineers who are distinguished and excel in their fields. If you are doing well in high school and do well on your ACT, you will most likely recieve close to a full ride, you must at least be in Pre-Calc (the higher the better because it will hang you up). Also you get to keep co-op money and graduate with 2 years of experience. You also have the chance to work along a professor on a thesis project, such as how to improve turbo efficiencies by changing blade material. How to implement VCR on an ICE and how to control it. List goes on, any thing you can think of or interests you is an opporutnity for a thesis.
Co-op jobs almost garuantee placement.... Fore warning there is just over a 40% drop out rate but we have close to 100% employement after graduation. I think we are in the high 90%. Got a friend who worked for a company co-oping as an IE and got hired out of school at 84k a year starting. Know another person who got hired in the upper 70k before graduating school because they wanted him that bad.
That being said, Kettering University used to be General Motors Institute (GM used to teach their young engineers through this University and then hired in 100% of graduates) and is still heavily tied to GM. GM still employees the largest percentage of students and hires the most students out of Kettering. Right now I know GM is expanding to new students. They are looking for at least 6 new co-ops who are going for Mechanical Engineering. IF you are serious about GM this is the place and this is the time to pursue it. GM is on the rebound ad we are expanding and hiring.
Last edited by Radcannon; 02-24-2010 at 01:00 PM.
02-24-2010, 02:03 PM
#50
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Thread Starter
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IE's do not go through the same math. Here is the IE curriculum.
BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN INDUSTRIAL ENGINEERING
CURRICULUM CONTENT
Area Courses Credit Hours
Basic Sciences
Industrial Organic Chemistry and Lab 4
Newtonian Mechanics and Lab 4
Electricity & Magnetism and Lab 4
Principles of Chemistry and Lab 4
Science or Math Elective 4
20 Credits Total
Engineering Core
Engineering Graphical Communication 4
Interdisciplinary Design and Manufacturing 4
Mechanics I 4
12 Total
General Education
Advanced Humanities Elective 4
Advanced Social Science Elective 4
Economic Principles 4
Introduction to the Humanities 4
Introduction to the Social Sciences 4
Senior Seminar: Leadership, Ethics and Contemp. Issues 4
Written & Oral Communication I 4
Written & Oral Communication II 4
32 Total
Industrial
Algorithms and Computer Programming 4
Engineering Core Applied Control Systems Design 4
Engineering Materials 4
Engineering Statistics II:
Statistical Inference and Regression 2 (1 hour lab)
Engineering Statistics III: Design of Experiments 2 (1 hour lab)
Quality Systems I: Quality Assurance 4
Senior Design Project 4
Systems Analysis I: Engineering Cost Analysis 4
Systems Analysis II: Production Systems Design 4
Systems Analysis III: Scheduling 4
Systems Modeling I: Deterministic Models 4
Systems Modeling II: Simulation 4
Work Design I: Methods & Standards 4
Work Design II: Ergonomics 4
52 Total
Mathematics
Calculus I 4
Calculus II 4
Engineering Statistics II:
Statistical Inference and Regression 21
Engineering Statistics III: Design of Experiments 21
Multivariate Calculus 4
Probability and Statistics 4
20 Total Highest level is Calc 3 (Multivariate Calculus), notice majority of math classes are statistics.
Industrial Engineering Cognate
(three IME electives) 12
Free Electives 8
(Both IME and Free electives may be used to complete a non-IE minor)
Learning, Success, and Teamwork 1
Thesis 4
Total Credits 161
Here is ME degree.
BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING
CURRICULUM CONTENT
Area Courses Credit Hours
General Education
Advanced Humanities Elective 4
Advanced Social Science Elective 4
Economic Principles 4
Introduction to the Humanities 4
Introduction to the Social Sciences 4
Senior Seminar: Leadership, Ethics and Contemp. Issues 4
Written & Oral Communication I 4
Written & Oral Communication II 4
32 Total
Basic Sciences
Industrial Organic Chemistry and Lab1 4
Newtonian Mechanics and Lab 4
Electricity and Magnetism and Lab 4
Principles of Chemistry and Lab 4
16 Total
Mathematics Calculus I 4
Calculus II 4
Differential Equations and Laplace Transforms 4
Multivariate Calculus 4
Numerical Methods and Matrices 4
Probability and Statistics 4
24 Total Notice more classes and less prob stats. IE's heavily involved in prob stats.
Mechanical Engineering
Computer Aided Engineering 4
Required Courses Mechanical Component Design I 4
Dynamic Systems I 4
Dynamics Systems II 4
Energy Systems Laboratory 4
Engineering Graphical Communication 4
Engineering Materials 4
Fluid Mechanics 4
Heat Transfer 4
Interdisciplinary Design and Manufacturing 4
Introduction to Mechanical System Design 4
Statics 4
Mechanics of Materials 4
Dynamics 4
Signals for Mechanical Systems1 4
Thermodynamics 4
64 Total
Concentration
Free Electives 8
Mechanical Engineering Electives 8
Mechanical Engineering Senior Design Project 4
20 Total
Learning, Success, and Teamwork 1
Thesis 4
Total Credits 161
That is from Kettering University most programs are similar. Kettering requires roughly 40 credits more than most universities a few of the undergrad classes are grad level classes. Also keep in mind a semster is 11 weeks of classes, work term is 10-12 weeks could be less if you request. Work term is very flexible. Classes are four times a week (1 hour a piece) or twice a week (2 hours).
If you choose to pursue this and fast track your life I highly recommend Kettering University. Getting an ME Degree with an Automotive Concentration does not mean you won't be working on vehicles. My hands were dirty three times today from root causing turbo failures and documenting them. I know guys working at GM racing division who are engineers constantly tweaking things. I know guys with engineering degrees working for performance shops (2 of them are owners with ME degrees), I know a guy working for diablo doing tuners who is an engineer and constantly working on cars. The difference between an engineer and technician is you have the ability to work on vehicles but you don't have to. YOu have technicians that can do your job when asked. Don't think if you pursue engineering you only sit at a desk NOT TRUE.
To the SAM's guy... check out where some Kettering Grads are now.
http://www.kettering.edu/alumni/dist...hed_alumni.jsp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettering_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...versity_people
We are known for pumping out high end engineers who are distinguished and excel in their fields. If you are doing well in high school and do well on your ACT, you will most likely recieve close to a full ride, you must at least be in Pre-Calc (the higher the better because it will hang you up). Also you get to keep co-op money and graduate with 2 years of experience. You also have the chance to work along a professor on a thesis project, such as how to improve turbo efficiencies by changing blade material. How to implement VCR on an ICE and how to control it. List goes on, any thing you can think of or interests you is an opporutnity for a thesis.
Co-op jobs almost garuantee placement.... Fore warning there is just over a 40% drop out rate but we have close to 100% employement after graduation. I think we are in the high 90%. Got a friend who worked for a company co-oping as an IE and got hired out of school at 84k a year starting. Know another person who got hired in the upper 70k before graduating school because they wanted him that bad.
That being said, Kettering University used to be General Motors Institute (GM used to teach their young engineers through this University and then hired in 100% of graduates) and is still heavily tied to GM. GM still employees the largest percentage of students and hires the most students out of Kettering. Right now I know GM is expanding to new students. They are looking for at least 6 new co-ops who are going for Mechanical Engineering. IF you are serious about GM this is the place and this is the time to pursue it. GM is on the rebound ad we are expanding and hiring.
BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN INDUSTRIAL ENGINEERING
CURRICULUM CONTENT
Area Courses Credit Hours
Basic Sciences
Industrial Organic Chemistry and Lab 4
Newtonian Mechanics and Lab 4
Electricity & Magnetism and Lab 4
Principles of Chemistry and Lab 4
Science or Math Elective 4
20 Credits Total
Engineering Core
Engineering Graphical Communication 4
Interdisciplinary Design and Manufacturing 4
Mechanics I 4
12 Total
General Education
Advanced Humanities Elective 4
Advanced Social Science Elective 4
Economic Principles 4
Introduction to the Humanities 4
Introduction to the Social Sciences 4
Senior Seminar: Leadership, Ethics and Contemp. Issues 4
Written & Oral Communication I 4
Written & Oral Communication II 4
32 Total
Industrial
Algorithms and Computer Programming 4
Engineering Core Applied Control Systems Design 4
Engineering Materials 4
Engineering Statistics II:
Statistical Inference and Regression 2 (1 hour lab)
Engineering Statistics III: Design of Experiments 2 (1 hour lab)
Quality Systems I: Quality Assurance 4
Senior Design Project 4
Systems Analysis I: Engineering Cost Analysis 4
Systems Analysis II: Production Systems Design 4
Systems Analysis III: Scheduling 4
Systems Modeling I: Deterministic Models 4
Systems Modeling II: Simulation 4
Work Design I: Methods & Standards 4
Work Design II: Ergonomics 4
52 Total
Mathematics
Calculus I 4
Calculus II 4
Engineering Statistics II:
Statistical Inference and Regression 21
Engineering Statistics III: Design of Experiments 21
Multivariate Calculus 4
Probability and Statistics 4
20 Total Highest level is Calc 3 (Multivariate Calculus), notice majority of math classes are statistics.
Industrial Engineering Cognate
(three IME electives) 12
Free Electives 8
(Both IME and Free electives may be used to complete a non-IE minor)
Learning, Success, and Teamwork 1
Thesis 4
Total Credits 161
Here is ME degree.
BACHELOR OF SCIENCE IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING
CURRICULUM CONTENT
Area Courses Credit Hours
General Education
Advanced Humanities Elective 4
Advanced Social Science Elective 4
Economic Principles 4
Introduction to the Humanities 4
Introduction to the Social Sciences 4
Senior Seminar: Leadership, Ethics and Contemp. Issues 4
Written & Oral Communication I 4
Written & Oral Communication II 4
32 Total
Basic Sciences
Industrial Organic Chemistry and Lab1 4
Newtonian Mechanics and Lab 4
Electricity and Magnetism and Lab 4
Principles of Chemistry and Lab 4
16 Total
Mathematics Calculus I 4
Calculus II 4
Differential Equations and Laplace Transforms 4
Multivariate Calculus 4
Numerical Methods and Matrices 4
Probability and Statistics 4
24 Total Notice more classes and less prob stats. IE's heavily involved in prob stats.
Mechanical Engineering
Computer Aided Engineering 4
Required Courses Mechanical Component Design I 4
Dynamic Systems I 4
Dynamics Systems II 4
Energy Systems Laboratory 4
Engineering Graphical Communication 4
Engineering Materials 4
Fluid Mechanics 4
Heat Transfer 4
Interdisciplinary Design and Manufacturing 4
Introduction to Mechanical System Design 4
Statics 4
Mechanics of Materials 4
Dynamics 4
Signals for Mechanical Systems1 4
Thermodynamics 4
64 Total
Concentration
Free Electives 8
Mechanical Engineering Electives 8
Mechanical Engineering Senior Design Project 4
20 Total
Learning, Success, and Teamwork 1
Thesis 4
Total Credits 161
That is from Kettering University most programs are similar. Kettering requires roughly 40 credits more than most universities a few of the undergrad classes are grad level classes. Also keep in mind a semster is 11 weeks of classes, work term is 10-12 weeks could be less if you request. Work term is very flexible. Classes are four times a week (1 hour a piece) or twice a week (2 hours).
If you choose to pursue this and fast track your life I highly recommend Kettering University. Getting an ME Degree with an Automotive Concentration does not mean you won't be working on vehicles. My hands were dirty three times today from root causing turbo failures and documenting them. I know guys working at GM racing division who are engineers constantly tweaking things. I know guys with engineering degrees working for performance shops (2 of them are owners with ME degrees), I know a guy working for diablo doing tuners who is an engineer and constantly working on cars. The difference between an engineer and technician is you have the ability to work on vehicles but you don't have to. YOu have technicians that can do your job when asked. Don't think if you pursue engineering you only sit at a desk NOT TRUE.
To the SAM's guy... check out where some Kettering Grads are now.
http://www.kettering.edu/alumni/dist...hed_alumni.jsp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettering_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...versity_people
We are known for pumping out high end engineers who are distinguished and excel in their fields. If you are doing well in high school and do well on your ACT, you will most likely recieve close to a full ride, you must at least be in Pre-Calc (the higher the better because it will hang you up). Also you get to keep co-op money and graduate with 2 years of experience. You also have the chance to work along a professor on a thesis project, such as how to improve turbo efficiencies by changing blade material. How to implement VCR on an ICE and how to control it. List goes on, any thing you can think of or interests you is an opporutnity for a thesis.
Co-op jobs almost garuantee placement.... Fore warning there is just over a 40% drop out rate but we have close to 100% employement after graduation. I think we are in the high 90%. Got a friend who worked for a company co-oping as an IE and got hired out of school at 84k a year starting. Know another person who got hired in the upper 70k before graduating school because they wanted him that bad.
That being said, Kettering University used to be General Motors Institute (GM used to teach their young engineers through this University and then hired in 100% of graduates) and is still heavily tied to GM. GM still employees the largest percentage of students and hires the most students out of Kettering. Right now I know GM is expanding to new students. They are looking for at least 6 new co-ops who are going for Mechanical Engineering. IF you are serious about GM this is the place and this is the time to pursue it. GM is on the rebound ad we are expanding and hiring.
But ive seen a few old friends go for ME and most of them after a few years of work (after grad) they are making good money, and some UTI friends are not making good money but are having fun... at there work if they have any....
But Thank you again for your Time
02-24-2010, 05:58 PM
#51
Staging Lane
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SAM is proud of our many accomplishments within the racing world and has graduates working for some of the most prestigious engine builders and race teams in the country. For information on SAM and our courses, please visit www.samracing.com or give us a call at 713-683-3817. SAM is a privately owned school and does not have an open enrollment program. Students must have a high school diploma/GED and pass a mechanical comprehension test in order to be admitted to the school.
In our courses, students learn engine theory, machining, assembly, testing, and real world experience with the School's four drag cars. Our race cars have set records and won championships in the NMRA and NMCA and are built by SAM students and instructors. Look in the April edition of GM High Tech Performance for a story on SAM's '99 Camaro as well as Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords for a write up of the School.
We are proud to offer very specialized courses including Engine Block Machining, Cylinder Head Machining, and CNC Machining. Our CNC Program has a separate entrance exam. Both the Block and Head courses are nine month programs with the CNC course lasting seven months. We have a diverse group of students including young high school graduates to older experienced students looking for a change in career paths.
SAM will assist students with job placement during their time in school, as well as after they graduate. SAM has been teaching students to build race engines since 1985 and we have established a great reputation for ourselves within the industry. Again, you can visit our website at www.samracing.com for more info or to view viedos of the School's cars, students projects, and graduates visit www.samracingtv.com. To schedule a tour, give us a call at 713-683-3817, thanks.
In our courses, students learn engine theory, machining, assembly, testing, and real world experience with the School's four drag cars. Our race cars have set records and won championships in the NMRA and NMCA and are built by SAM students and instructors. Look in the April edition of GM High Tech Performance for a story on SAM's '99 Camaro as well as Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords for a write up of the School.
We are proud to offer very specialized courses including Engine Block Machining, Cylinder Head Machining, and CNC Machining. Our CNC Program has a separate entrance exam. Both the Block and Head courses are nine month programs with the CNC course lasting seven months. We have a diverse group of students including young high school graduates to older experienced students looking for a change in career paths.
SAM will assist students with job placement during their time in school, as well as after they graduate. SAM has been teaching students to build race engines since 1985 and we have established a great reputation for ourselves within the industry. Again, you can visit our website at www.samracing.com for more info or to view viedos of the School's cars, students projects, and graduates visit www.samracingtv.com. To schedule a tour, give us a call at 713-683-3817, thanks.
02-25-2010, 12:41 PM
#52
TECH Resident
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RadCannon, here at NIU IEs do the same math as MEs. here are the two 4 year plans for IE and ME. not all colleges are the same and i know my friend who is an engineer at purdue (rated 11th best engineering school in the country) requires the same amount as math for both as well. not trying to be a dick or anything, please dont take it like that. im just trying explain how things are and from a first hand point of view.
http://www.niu.edu/me/audience/ME%20...02009-2010.pdf
http://www.niu.edu/isye/undergrad/flow_sheet.shtml
http://www.niu.edu/me/audience/ME%20...02009-2010.pdf
http://www.niu.edu/isye/undergrad/flow_sheet.shtml
02-25-2010, 12:50 PM
#53
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Air force has TONS of benefits.. its almost a no brain-er for me..
talk to a local recruiter if I were you..
I already signed up for basic training when i get outta highschool..
you also get a nice 2year signing bonus depending on what you choose and how long 2yr vs 4yr or 6yr
talk to a local recruiter if I were you..
I already signed up for basic training when i get outta highschool..
you also get a nice 2year signing bonus
depending on what you choose and how long 2yr vs 4yr or 6yrGood choice man. Good luck with your travels. And yes, there are several benifits with the Military. Take advatage of the G.I. bill when you get out. Also, save save save. Live on base, and save your money. You will want a little bit of "fall back" when you get out.
02-28-2010, 01:00 PM
#54
I had to chose between dedicating myself to 4-5 years of engineering school or go to UTI and become a tech. Ended up going for Mech. Eng Tech at community college and havn't looked back, did really well. Now transferring with a nice scholarship to northeastern univ. for Aeronautical Engineering.
I would suggest shooting as high as possible. Theirs no way it wont pay off later plus community college is REAL cheap (i payed under 2k each semester) and if you do well you can transfer almost anywhere with your A.S.
I would suggest shooting as high as possible. Theirs no way it wont pay off later
plus community college is REAL cheap (i payed under 2k each semester) and if you do well you can transfer almost anywhere with your A.S.
03-01-2010, 04:20 AM
#55
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I didn't read the whole thread, but here's my take on it. If you want to be a technician, stay away from UTI and Wyotech, I personally know graduates of both schools and all I have to say is that 9 months of school only gets you a job at jiffy lube not working on top fuel dragsters.
I met a couple guys from SAM and they were real sharp as far as engine theory, machining, assembly, etc. goes. If that's what you want to do, SAM seems like one of the best places.
I am soon to be 20 and finishing up a 2 year program with GM ASEP (general motors automotive service excellence program) with an associates in practical science. I am coming out 100% certified with GM and have 7 ASE certifications, will be taking my 8th in May. I've been in the field 4 years now and know school isn't everything, but it sure helps your resume and fills in the gaps where you lack knowledge.
Job opportunities have been great for me with the certifications and experience. My main advice is that if you got to school come out certified, whether it is with Ford, Toyota, welding, E.M.S. etc. Hope this helps you.
I met a couple guys from SAM and they were real sharp as far as engine theory, machining, assembly, etc. goes. If that's what you want to do, SAM seems like one of the best places.
I am soon to be 20 and finishing up a 2 year program with GM ASEP (general motors automotive service excellence program) with an associates in practical science. I am coming out 100% certified with GM and have 7 ASE certifications, will be taking my 8th in May. I've been in the field 4 years now and know school isn't everything, but it sure helps your resume and fills in the gaps where you lack knowledge.
Job opportunities have been great for me with the certifications and experience. My main advice is that if you got to school come out certified, whether it is with Ford, Toyota, welding, E.M.S. etc. Hope this helps you.
03-02-2010, 01:09 PM
#57
i worrk at a mech. shop. the head tech there said if you like working on cars then dont be a mechanic.. he hates working on cars.. speed shop may be a dif. deal but im hittin up the 4 year business degree. its only 5% of your life that will improve the quality of the rest of your life. if need be go back to sam after college.. its hard to make **** without a degree..
