Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

Sorry but I had to chime in here...more bullshit. You are incredibly biased, no question. That doesn't make you always wrong, of course. But don't try to play Mr. Neutral cause I can't imagine that anyone on this site that knows you is going to buy it.

The Big 3 are concentrating on bringing to the public's attention how much their products have improved as of late because they have failed to do that for the past 6 years. Domestic vehicles didn't just START improving, they have been great for years. Hell the Buick Century was the most reliable car on earth according to JD Power in 2004 already. American cars may have been questionable in the 90's, but that was last decade...we are 10-15 years beyond those cars. Time for people to wake up.

Irunelevens

I'm realistic, not biased. There are some cars that I know aren't of the best quality/craftsmanship, but I still like them, ie; Corvette, F-body, Mustang. And there are some cars that I know are built great, but I wouldn't drive, ie; Civic, Corolla, etc. All of my apparent "bias" is based off my own experiences and things that I've owned/driven.

Sinner

I owned a 2001 Civic, the interior quality was no better than my 98 F-body. Sure the gaps ect were tighter but nothing broke in my Formula, **** broke all the time in the Honda.

El es one

Is not like toyota needs the money to survive.

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

Really? Until very recently they sure as hell didnt have much...

some? A bunch rather.




This thread can go both ways. either side can argue why they are looknig for a bailout. All the companies have made some type of bad move or simply has succumb to the weak economy or better yet a combination of both.

And im not biased towards one side or another either. There some domestics I like some I hate, same with imports. I give credit where credit is due. In the past years domestic guys have really churned out some total **** quality cars with some serious issues. How bout the CTS-V rear end busting all the time and our 10 bolts and the z06's roofs flying off? I remember when toyota recalled the tundra because the CAMSHAFTS were breaking. And elt us not forget the GTR tranny Even the foreign guys have problems like this and I agree that people overlook that a lot.

Anyhow we test drove an 08 C6 today and we may are highly considering buying it within the next 2 months. The quality was a lot better but still a bit of room for improvement on a few things.

WECIV

"That's like 95% of Toyota not getting a bailout."

Good let the Nips bail them out.

W

El es one

Yeah except they dont need a bailout...they want a loan.

Unlike other companys that need loans or else they die,now thats a bailout.

7998

iTrader: (1)

I hear ya, I worked at a Honda dealer I seen the so called "superior quality".
.02 cent carpet and shitty paint, and yes they do break.

Sinner

It's a pretty old car built to pretty old standards in the context of GM's product revival. The GMT900's haven't been out that long but compare their world class interiors to the lambadas and the trucks look like crap. Every new model seems to put what was just released to shame.

You can't compare a Vette to a Ferrari or Porsche, they don't cost anywhere near the same or obviously it's lacking compare to them. If you compare the Vette to the Viper I think it does pretty good. You can't compare the Vette designed in 2004 to the GTR for 2008, as going back to the GM model vs GM model there's been a huge transformation in quality and esthetics.

All the Corvette needs is a cooler looking steering wheel and some better seats.

7998

iTrader: (1)

What could you buy in 98-02 that was better for the money?
Sure, the plastics in the F-body leave alittle to be desired. Are they Lexus quiet, Mercedes comfortable? No.... But for $25k+ you weren't finding a better bargain then. I bought a new MKIV GTI VR6 in 99, It was nice and handled, but it rattled over bumps and VW had to buy it back because it was S-box.

Irunelevens

And you somehow still try to turn what I said into a comparison. I said that I like Mustangs/F-bodies/Corvettes in spite of their shortcomings. To Sinner; I hate to say it because of what it implies, but Honda/Toyota quality started leveling off/going down when they moved production to the US. I don't know how to explain that, so take it for what you will. To Tainted; be careful with your open-minded opinions, cuz you might get branded an "import fanboi."

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

Opinions are like ********, everyone has one.

this is the internet, and not only that a ****** online forum I couldn't possibly care any less as to what people call me




The seats in the C6 weren't to bad, but they could use a bit more padding they were a bit stiff. The steering wheel I thought wasn't bad either. I really liked the paddle shifters though, but im kind of a dork for gimmicky things like that. A few years back at the sale me and my grandpa went to I had a chance to drive a ferrari with the paddle shifters (I know nowhere enar the same) and I just thought that was just the ebst thing since sliced bread and toilet paper.

Sinner

The seats needing more lat support was what I was getting at, you can get more aggressive seats in a Subaru. As for the steering wheel, well three spoke rims in the 90's looked like **** and the Corvette's steering wheel looks way too much like said rims.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

The comments about supportive seats in American cars are entertaining...and i'm not saying that your an idiot or anything for saying it...you make a valid observation.

That said, answer me this...name one Chrylser/Ford/GM vehicle with very supportive sporty seats. Bear with me on this, I do have a point to it all.

XxGarbSxX

The Saturn ION Redline and Cobalt SS Supercharged had very comfortable and supportive sporty seats. They were Recaros, though do they count or did you want one made by Chrysler/Ford/GM in-house?

Sinner

What he said. Personally I think Dodge did an awesome job with the seats in the SRT8's as well.

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

doesn't chrysler own the rights to the VIPER?

phirepower

iTrader: (2)

"I can't wait to see the wonderland of wisdom that this thread takes us too.

Months of haters ripping on domestic automakers' need for bailout money while swinging from Toyota's *******. No doubt they are going to have some classic excuses for this."


Does Irunelevens qualify as a "toyota nut swinger"?

hahaha great quote!

Irunelevens

Actually that's a pretty horrible quote... you're supposed to do it like this:

TriShield

To see the difference between Toyota getting a 2 billion loan and GM getting an open-ended 40 billion plus loan just ask yourself this.

When was the last time GM was profitable? When was the last time GM increased their US marketshare? When was the last time GM ranked at the top of ratings like Consumer Reports? When was the last time GM had a reputation for quality products? When was the last time GM didn't have to resort to huge rebates, 0% sales and other tactics to move cars? When was the last time GM didn't use fleet sales to pad it's overall numbers?

Toyota is a profitable and viable company that is a good bet to repay the loan. Who here would honestly believe GM can pay back what they are getting given their history?