7998

iTrader: (1)

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/03/auto...reut/index.htm

Wow Toyota made it a few months longer then the Big 3. They're also looking to get bailed out, I guess all them years of inferior product and bad business decisions has finally caught up with them.

ChaseSS

iTrader: (17)

a sign of the times.... things will get worse still before they get better

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

Epic.

I can't wait to see the wonderland of wisdom that this thread takes us too.

Months of haters ripping on domestic automakers' need for bailout money while swinging from Toyota's *******. No doubt they are going to have some classic excuses for this.

7998

iTrader: (1)

They probably wont even respond and just hope it dies soon.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

edit: im an idiot & didnt read the link posted. this post was irrelavent and pretty darn retarded thx jamstransam

JamsTransAm

"The world's top automaker applies for a $2.1 billion loan backed by the Japanese government to keep its finance arm competitive."

7998

iTrader: (1)

Could you imagine how much they would be begging for if they weren't already subsidized by the Japnese Goverment.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

lol. im an idiot for being too lazy to read the link. i think you know what i was thinking im editing my post. thanks!

Irunelevens

Hasn't GM cumulatively asked for something close to $20 billion? Just food for thought. I know you want to hear, "See!! GM didn't really make any bad decisions and their products were always the best, Americans were just stupid." But that's not the truth.

7998

iTrader: (1)

GM did make "some" bad decisions, and in their segment has made some really good cars. And import buying Americans aren't stupid just mis-led and mis-informed.

Buckwheat

iTrader: (13)

The banks and the fed are the ones who got us into this situation. Bernakie...what a ******' dooschbag on TV today. These ****** are taking us down into a black hole of government waste, abuse, and scandal that will make Hitler look like a boyscout.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

That's not the point at all. There's no doubt GM is worse off than Toyota. The point is that now people can't sit there and say "look at Toyota...they don't need any money". This simply points more and more towards GM's legacy costs being the issues and not the cars they've been making as so many claim. If a company like Toyota, who supposedly has built the greatest cars on earth since the day we learned the earth is round, is needing money, it's obvious that there are bigger forces at work here.

Irunelevens

So every import has a domestic counterpart that's cheaper and better? I definitely wouldn't go that far.

7998

iTrader: (1)

Short of an S-Class Merc or the likes, yes there is a Domestic counterpart comparable or better. And don't geek out and start with Italian exotics, all I have to say is ZR-1, and Ford GT.

Irunelevens

Up until VERY recently, there wasn't really anything to compare with the Mazda3/Civic/Corolla. The Cavalier was a joke; very inexpensive, but also very cheap. An example that I've used before and will use again is my old '05 Frontier Crew Cab V6/6spd. I wanted a midsize/compact truck with good power and a manual transmission. The Frontier was the ONLY truck that met the criteria, and now only Toyota has come out with something comparable. And I would also argue that the Sky/Solstice realistically are only "good" competitors at best in the small sports car segment, even though the Redline and GXP go great in a straightline. If I were getting a minivan I wouldn't get anything other than an Odyssey or Quest. Now if I was looking for a 3/4 or 1 ton truck or a cheap 1/2 ton to use as a work truck, domestic all the way. Or of course if I wanted something midsized with RWD and a V8.

Irunelevens

And for the record, people with enough money to blow $100k+ on a toy don't have to choose one car. If they really wanted, they could have a Ferrari, a ZR-1, and a Ford GT. But I will say that as good as the ZR-1 is for the money, there are definitely corners cut when it comes to the fine details. But that is to be expected from a car that price that does what it can do.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

For the record, I drive a Toyota (not the Prius though ), and I could care less. Everyone is in trouble right now, and I'm not surprised at all. I get to drive my Canadian import again within the next few weeks, so all is well from my perspective.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

So if you were looking at a minivan, you wouldn't even consider one from the company that INVENTED the minivan?

That's interesting. I'm the opposite...if I needed a minivan, i'd probably have to shoot myself...but seriously, if I went looking for one, i'd go nowhere else but a chrysler lot. I sold Odysseys 8 years ago and I have to say they don't hold a candle to a chrysler minivan. That's just one thing Chrysler has right - if the only thing.

Irunelevens

8 years ago means very little now... the Chrysler minivans are definitely ok, but they aren't the best IMO. I too would shoot myself, but I was tossing out a hypothetical. I would (and have) consider all options, but I've been in/driven Ford Freestars and Caravans and they feel cheap compared to the Odyssey and Quest. And Chrysler's past quality reputation is questionable. Granted VW does source their Routan minivan from Chrysler, but they change 90% of the bodypanels and almost the entire interior. For a reason.

108dragon

iTrader: (5)

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but;
I agree. Also in the news; "If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem." If you are out buying up foreign made goods and services, you are NOT helping OUR economy. There are bigger forces at work. But WE don't have to add to them.
Our automakers simply designed and manufactured the cheap *** cars we demanded of them. Toyota simply makes better cheap *** cars..and cheaper. Sounds stupid, but its true. We get what we ask for from our automakers just like we "get the government we deserve."
The latest Corvette is kicking *** in the "supercar" catagories. Toyota has NOTHING that can touch it. It is a testament to GM's capabilities as an automaker and the direct response to the demand of the American people. I would have given our automakers anything they wanted in financial back for the simple fact that THEY have made up a vast amount of the backbone of American economy for almost a century. I am ashamed that our government didn't help them more. This is OURS and WE have to take care of it. Or we lose it along with Crane Cams. Without our products, our banking (who for the most part completely wasted the bailout given to them) and trading system wouldn't have anything to base thier profits on... not without investments abroad.
I think the "bigger forces at work" is our non support of ourselves. I really dig LS1tech because we support each other and our sponsors. If America as a whole was like that, I don't think we would be in nearly the pickle that we are.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.