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Ford to cut wages in UAW deal

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Old 03-11-2009, 12:32 PM
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Default Ford to cut wages in UAW deal


DETROIT (Reuters) – Ford Motor Co said on Wednesday that it expects operating savings of $500 million per year from an agreement with the United Auto Workers that will push hourly wage rates into the "ballpark" of foreign-based rivals.

Ford said the agreement would trim its average wages for the 42,000 workers covered under the contract, including the value of benefits, to about $55 per hour this year, while the U.S. operations of foreign-based automakers -- or what auto executives call "transplants" -- pay workers on average $48 to $49 per hour.

The agreement with the UAW, which workers ratified earlier in March, allows Ford to suspend some performance and bonus payments, reduce overtime costs and cut a paid holiday, as well as restructure funding of a union retiree healthcare trust.

Joe Hinrichs, Ford's global head of manufacturing, said the savings from the operating agreement and restructuring of the funding of the trust, the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, are "critical to our future competitiveness."

"This gets us to within the ballpark of where the transplants are," Hinrichs said in a conference call with analysts and reporters.

"Over the next couple of years with the buyouts and with the ability to leverage some of the other tools that are now in this agreement, we think we can get there within the next couple of years on parity with the transplants," he said.

The annual savings could exceed $500 million if industry conditions allowed Ford to exercise all of the changes in the agreement, Hinrichs said. About half of the annual savings would come from the elimination of performance bonuses and the Christmas bonus and the suspension of cost of living increases.

Ford restructured payments into the VEBA, including the option to contribute about half in company stock, to conserve cash. The plan to make payments in stock requires shareholder approval at the Ford annual meeting this year.

Ford, which posted a record $14.7 billion net loss for 2008, has said it believes it has adequate liquidity to operate through the economic downturn without seeking emergency U.S. government loans.

The agreement with the UAW effectively puts Ford's U.S. hourly wage rates in line with the cuts cross-town rivals General Motors Corp and Chrysler LLC have been negotiating with the union under their government bailouts.

Chrysler, about 80 percent controlled by Cerberus Capital Management LP, and GM have received $17.4 billion of emergency government loans and have requested billions more in emergency loans to complete restructurings.

"It appears that the agreement essentially meets the terms set forth by the U.S. Treasury loan (to GM)," KeyBanc Capital Markets analyst Brett Hoselton said in a note to clients.

"If correct, we believe this is a significant milestone and investors should now turn their attention to negotiations with the bondholders," Hoselton said.

Ford has announced salaried job cuts and executive pay reductions and last week launched an effort to reduce $25.8 billion of automotive debt by up to 40 percent through conversion of debt to equity and tender offers.

Ford also has agreed to offer buyouts to UAW-represented workers from April 1 through May 22. Ford has offered buyouts previously to hourly workers and the offers will be lower than those in the past due to the current economic conditions.

Ford plans to consolidate assembly work between adjacent Michigan Truck and Wayne Assembly plants near Detroit. The automaker is converting its Michigan Truck plant to build the European-designed 2010 Ford Focus small car.

The Wayne facility will continue to perform stamping and some body work and the consolidation is not expected to result in job cuts from the Wayne facility.

In late morning New York Stock Exchange trade, Ford shares were up 14 cents or 7.6 percent to $1.99.

(Reporting by David Bailey; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn and Gerald E. McCormick)
Ford has seriously got their sh*t together and are moving up in my book. They didn't take any money from the government and now they are the first to do what had to be done with the UAW (even though total cost per labor hour is still ~$10 more than Toyota) its much much much better than the $70 per hour they were eating. This should make it easier for Chrysler and GM to negotiate with the UAW as well
Old 03-11-2009, 01:17 PM
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OK, maybe I'm missing something, but $55.00 x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $114,400!!!

Tell me it's the "new math" or something, but $114k a year to build cars?!?! ****, sign me up!!


On a side note, I am glad that Ford is working to get their costs in line, but geez, that's still crazy.

Any lawyers on the board? Tell me why we can't "fire" the union and pay them a respectable rate? Does the union have a legal right to exist and demand a wage? What would happen in GM fired all union workers and re-hired non-union workers at have the pay? Lawsuit city? What's the basis?
Old 03-11-2009, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BAD2000TA
OK, maybe I'm missing something, but $55.00 x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $114,400!!!

Tell me it's the "new math" or something, but $114k a year to build cars?!?! ****, sign me up!!


On a side note, I am glad that Ford is working to get their costs in line, but geez, that's still crazy.

Any lawyers on the board? Tell me why we can't "fire" the union and pay them a respectable rate? Does the union have a legal right to exist and demand a wage? What would happen in GM fired all union workers and re-hired non-union workers at have the pay? Lawsuit city? What's the basis?
total cost per labor hour = $55.... meaning they are getting paid $28 an hour + the cost of their benefits + money that goes to their pension + other sh*t = $55... its the total of all the benefits, wages, and other associated costs that go with that 1 worker's pay.


I've always wondered that too, what if they fired the union? but they have it contracts and I'm guessing that in those contracts it states something to the effect of "if you terminate this contract the union will f*ck you and your family in more ways than one"
Old 03-11-2009, 01:37 PM
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Good for them! Way to wake the **** up.
Old 03-11-2009, 01:39 PM
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Dept of Labor backs the "right" of collective bargaining I believe (aka unions). GM,Ford, etc... all have legal binding contracts with the UAW ... these contracts date back years ago, and now are to the point where it's just bleeding the companies dry

Look at the new Camaro ... part of the reason for Hiatus of even the name was because of a contract w/the CAW that as long as the St. Theresé facility existed, the Camaro could only be made there ... so what'd GM do? knock the facility down lol

Hence the reasoning chapter 11 would be better... it would effectively null and void these union contracts ... and then maybe GM (or Ford, or Chrystler) wouldn't make the same mistake again
Old 03-11-2009, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BAD2000TA
OK, maybe I'm missing something, but $55.00 x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $114,400!!!

Tell me it's the "new math" or something, but $114k a year to build cars?!?! ****, sign me up!!


On a side note, I am glad that Ford is working to get their costs in line, but geez, that's still crazy.

Any lawyers on the board? Tell me why we can't "fire" the union and pay them a respectable rate? Does the union have a legal right to exist and demand a wage? What would happen in GM fired all union workers and re-hired non-union workers at have the pay? Lawsuit city? What's the basis?

Not a lawyer... but my guess would be contracts between GM and the UAW.

UAW could sue for breach of contract.

[edit] Looks like horist already answered that... my bag.... didn't read the post.
Old 03-12-2009, 04:46 PM
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Good for Ford.

The workers are not making $55/hr, more like $25/hr plus Benefits and Union dues.
Unions have become a business all to their self.
There is a lot of paper pushers, and middle management and top brass, and lawyers that collect part of those hourly figures quoted, (Union dues)

And to answer your questions about firing the wokers.
If GM and the others tried to do something like that the Unions would strike.
No cars would get produced, it happened in 1998.
Thats why many manufacturers moved their factories out of the Country to Mexico, or Canada.
In the 60's and 70's when the Unions were very strong, the Big 3 really had no choice but to give in to the Unions demands. If they didn't the Unions would shut them down in a heartbeat.
Or in Great Britians case the workers would sabotage the product.
The 70's were the height of the strong Unions and a time when many of them got very greedy.

Unions were, and can be a very good thing and we needed them.
But just like the bankers of today got greedy and we're suffering, they to got greedy. As a result of pushing too hard the Unions have found themselves in a vulnerable position.
Old 03-12-2009, 04:56 PM
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There you go Ford! Way to F&*K the people who actualy deserve what little money they get. The ones who do all the work get the cuts. What's funny is it cost Ford 11k to build an Escape and they sell them for 30k fully loaded, but for some reason it's the union workers who are making them go broke??? BULLSHIT That 11k also includes operator pay.(The people building the damn cars.)
Old 03-12-2009, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Zac_Speed
There you go Ford! Way to F&*K the people who actualy deserve what little money they get. The ones who do all the work get the cuts. What's funny is it cost Ford 11k to build an Escape and they sell them for 30k fully loaded, but for some reason it's the union workers who are making them go broke??? BULLSHIT That 11k also includes operator pay.(The people building the damn cars.)

Yeah ford, the company should quit f*cking its workers and keep paying them out the *** so the whole company goes under and everyone is out of a job

you sir, are a moron.... $28+ an hour for unskilled manual labor is ridiculous, show me where you get this cost of $11k to build a loaded escape and Ford makes a claimed profit of $19k per escape??
Old 03-12-2009, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Zac_Speed
What's funny is it cost Ford 11k to build an Escape and they sell them for 30k fully loaded
Does this $11k per car figure in all the R&D to develop the vehicle... Advertising expenses... the hundreds of fully built cars that have to go in for crash testing... ect, ect.
Old 03-12-2009, 07:43 PM
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Fact is, taking a pay cut is a heck of a lot better than shutting down an entire plant because it's cheaper to shut it down then to pay guys to sit at home and not make cars months at a time every year.

Unions had their place when we didn't have labor laws or OSHA. Back when it was common practice for guys to get injured, maimed, or even killed on the job and the corporations did nothing to change conditions. It was ok back then to force workers to work in horrible conditions and extrem hours. But those times are long gone. Now guys in unions have work quotas and are pushed to work bare minimums. God forbid you do something that is a 'union job' because they'll file a greivance against you for stealing a job from them.

Sorry, unions need to go the same direction as the dinosaurs and become extinct.
Old 03-12-2009, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ChaseSS
Yeah ford, the company should quit f*cking its workers and keep paying them out the *** so the whole company goes under and everyone is out of a job

you sir, are a moron.... $28+ an hour for unskilled manual labor is ridiculous, show me where you get this cost of $11k to build a loaded escape and Ford makes a claimed profit of $19k per escape??
It's a good thing you've got the internet to call people names, because I bet you're a little bitch in the real world.

What's funny is these people who talk about **** they have no clue about. I'm glad god put dumb people on earth(ChaseSS) I love laughing at them!!!

You know that Henry Ford wanted his employees to be able to afford the vehicles they produce, Good luck affording anything when they take away half your pay!!!
Old 03-12-2009, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MadIceV8
Does this $11k per car figure in all the R&D to develop the vehicle... Advertising expenses... the hundreds of fully built cars that have to go in for crash testing... ect, ect.
If that's so expensive why are they still making prototypes, sponsoring football, racing, etc.

It's funny how they cut the guy on the bottom but continue to put money into the fun stuff. Oh, we'll pay guys to do **** that has nothing to do with building an automobile, but the men and women who get dirty every day or nite can eat ****....

ChaseSS is also from St. Louis where they shut a plant down. Gee I wonder why, with people like that in the area I have a hard time seeing any company being successfull.
Old 03-12-2009, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Zac_Speed
There you go Ford! Way to F&*K the people who actualy deserve what little money they get. The ones who do all the work get the cuts. What's funny is it cost Ford 11k to build an Escape and they sell them for 30k fully loaded, but for some reason it's the union workers who are making them go broke??? BULLSHIT That 11k also includes operator pay.(The people building the damn cars.)
someone should be paid $28 an hour for a job a highschooler could do? hell they could probably train a monkey to do it and just pay him in bananas.
Old 03-12-2009, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Zac_Speed
If that's so expensive why are they still making prototypes, sponsoring football, racing, etc.
wow you're dense

they do those things to advertise and SELL THE CARS THEY PAY TO BUILD

and if you dont think they should make prototypes you are off your rocker
Old 03-12-2009, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BAD2000TA
OK, maybe I'm missing something, but $55.00 x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $114,400!!!

Tell me it's the "new math" or something, but $114k a year to build cars?!?! ****, sign me up!!


On a side note, I am glad that Ford is working to get their costs in line, but geez, that's still crazy.

Any lawyers on the board? Tell me why we can't "fire" the union and pay them a respectable rate? Does the union have a legal right to exist and demand a wage? What would happen in GM fired all union workers and re-hired non-union workers at have the pay? Lawsuit city? What's the basis?
It wouldn't be unheard of for your company to pay 80% of the cost of your insurance and maintain a life insurance policy to help cover the loss of the worker. You might get 55K a year but you cost the company a hell of a lot more with all the insurances, benefits, ect ect ect
Old 03-12-2009, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 88blackgt
someone should be paid $28 an hour for a job a highschooler could do? hell they could probably train a monkey to do it and just pay him in bananas.
You're obviously not very smart are you. I'll give you some reasons why.
1. Your name is 88blackgt, which means you've got a 5.0 and are on a GM website. No offense to anyone with a mustang with over 300hp.

2. I don't know too many highschoolers who can paint a car just because they have a 4.0 grade average.

3. I doesn't take advertising in racing or on tv to sell cars anymore. DUH

4. You don't know the real meaning of the word "Dense".

5. only 3% of the prototypes made have anything to do with actual real world ****, the rest is just to show off skills and new concepts, which at a time like this is a waste of money.

6. When you say train a monkey you sound retarded. They're Chimps, the closest animal geneticly to a homosapian.


Maybe you should graduate highschool before you get on a forum with adults little boy.
Old 03-12-2009, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Zac_Speed
If that's so expensive why are they still making prototypes, sponsoring football, racing, etc.

It's funny how they cut the guy on the bottom but continue to put money into the fun stuff. Oh, we'll pay guys to do **** that has nothing to do with building an automobile, but the men and women who get dirty every day or nite can eat ****....

ChaseSS is also from St. Louis where they shut a plant down. Gee I wonder why, with people like that in the area I have a hard time seeing any company being successfull.
If there were no prototypes then there would be no new cars. They are sponsors just like we have sponsors on this website. To get there name out into the public. Its a little thing called advertising .

There are cuts going throughout the entire company and everyone is going to feel it from management to the bottom level worker. I think poor management should be replaced or take a more sever pay cut compared to employee's, granted this isn't always the case.
Old 03-12-2009, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Zac_Speed
It's a good thing you've got the internet to call people names, because I bet you're a little bitch in the real world.

What's funny is these people who talk about **** they have no clue about. I'm glad god put dumb people on earth(ChaseSS) I love laughing at them!!!

You know that Henry Ford wanted his employees to be able to afford the vehicles they produce, Good luck affording anything when they take away half your pay!!!
you obviously didn't read the article (hence why I called you a moron because you come into a thread arguing about it when you didn't read the information in it) They aren't taking half their pay, they might take a $2 or 3 per hour cut on the $28-32 dollars per hour their making, but they cut most of the ridiculous benefits that lowers their total cost per labor hour not how much they are actually getting paid. READ THE ARTICLE BEFORE YOU POST

I love arguing with people that use ZERO facts to back anything they claim. Your obviously in the minority thinking that the UAW has a place and an argument to keep raping the big 3 with total cost per labor upwards of $70. And if you haven't noticed, Henry Ford doesn't run the company anymore and if you can't afford a Focus, you have bigger problems than arguing with me on the internet. The fact is that you have no business experience or education in the matter and everything you post is useless information. Then you stoop to the level of making fun of someones screen name (88blackgt)???? Are you seriously even old enough to drive?

3. I doesn't take advertising in racing or on tv to sell cars anymore. DUH
oh really? so your in the advertising business and have done market research analysis? hmmm.... I guess your smarter than every single Board of director and CEO of all the manufacturers that sell cars and advertise? I can honestly say that I have never read a poorer argument than what you have posted

my suggestion: quit posting because your making yourself look like a complete tool
Old 03-12-2009, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Zac_Speed
You're obviously not very smart are you. I'll give you some reasons why.
1. Your name is 88blackgt, which means you've got a 5.0 and are on a GM website. No offense to anyone with a mustang with over 300hp.

2. I don't know too many highschoolers who can paint a car just because they have a 4.0 grade average.

3. I doesn't take advertising in racing or on tv to sell cars anymore. DUH

4. You don't know the real meaning of the word "Dense".

5. only 3% of the prototypes made have anything to do with actual real world ****, the rest is just to show off skills and new concepts, which at a time like this is a waste of money.

6. When you say train a monkey you sound retarded. They're Chimps, the closest animal geneticly to a homosapian.


Maybe you should graduate highschool before you get on a forum with adults little boy.
First off, I doubt any person actually paints any cars at any automated assembly plant. Robots do that. Second, how much do you make a year and what do you do?


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