Edmunds Feature - 1987 and 2011 Buick Regal turbos
01-03-2011, 02:03 PM
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Edmunds Feature - 1987 and 2011 Buick Regal turbos Not at All Alike...Except for the Name and the Turbos
Up close the Grand National isn't as big as you may imagine. And the Regal CXL Turbo is bigger than you think.
By John Pearley Huffman, Contributor | Published Jan 3, 2011
With its 2011 Regal Turbo, Buick has either revived a storied name for a deserving new machine or is spitting on its own heritage. After all, the original Regal Turbos — those big, full-frame, rear-drive, two-door coupes produced between the 1978 and 1987 model years — have been sustaining Buick enthusiasm almost singlehandedly for more than 30 years. If it weren't for the Grand National, alpha dog of Regal Turbos, most enthusiasts would have forgotten about Buick a long time ago.
Of course, the 1987 Grand National and 2011 Regal Turbo sedan don't emerge from the same branch of Buick's family tree. The old GN is an anomaly: the only Buick of its turbocharged V6 kind, biased toward high performance and always intended as a specialized product with relatively low-volume sales.
In contrast, the new Regal Turbo is a mainstream, front-drive Buick, from the leading edge of its glimmering waterfall grille to the super shiny tri-shield emblem on its tail. It's the front-drive four-door sedan with which Buick intends to steal sales from cars like the Acura TSX and Lexus ES 350. Maybe even swipe up some Accord and Camry buyers.
All that doesn't mean this comparison is unfair. After all, when you can only have one piece of fruit it's reasonable to ask whether you prefer an apple or an orange.
High Eye Impact
After nearly 24 years, this is still what a proper Buick should look like. At night, this car practically disappears.
The Grand National's sharp-edged sheet metal first appeared 30 years ago as the 1981 Regal. Back then it was merely a successful updating of the downsized Regal coupe introduced as a '78 model. It was just another GM midsize coupe that, under the skin, was pretty much identical to the Chevrolet Monte Carlo, Pontiac Grand Prix and Oldsmobile Cutlass. There were millions of them.
But today, long after most of its brother big coupes have been recycled into Korean rebar, there are few cars left on the road that look like the old Regal. And nothing at all is left in production like the fortified Regal known as the Grand National, which first went on sale as a 1984 model. When Rafael Basquez's '87 GN showed up for Inside Line's test, it arrived looking like something that somehow had survived its species' extinction event. A complete dinosaur.
You know, a dinosaur like the Velociraptor or T. Rex. From its shovel nose to its rear deck spoiler, this is a car that speaks to the darkness and lust for power in our souls. The black Grand National carries the same sort of charismatic menace that inspires lonely women to write unsolicited marriage proposals to convicted mass murderers.
In contrast, the new 2011 Buick Regal CXL Turbo is, well, a pretty sedan. With gracefully arched lines that run from snout to rump, fenders that swell over 18-inch wheels and a dashing character line running down from the windshield and back to the rear bumper, the new Regal is antiseptically clean in the way that many new cars are today. If the Grand National is arrogant and aggressive, the new Regal Turbo is tidy, sensible, handsome and elegant.
Not So Different After All
There simply isn't anything like the old Buick Grand National in production today. Not even close. There are a lot of cars like the new Regal CXL Turbo, however.
The old Grand National and new Regal are, however, deceptively close to each other in size. The wheelbases, for example are virtually identical; the old car's gap runs 108.1 inches while the new car puts 107.8 inches between the front and rear wheels. And while the new Regal looks slim, Buick lists its overall width at 73.1 inches. The old GN, broad-shouldered beast it appears to be, is listed at only 71.6 inches wide. And at 58.4 inches tall, the new car towers over the old one that stands at just 54.5 inches.
The curb weights are even close. The Grand National came in at a relatively svelte 3,509 pounds (57 percent of it on the front wheels) while the new Regal hits the scale at a not-svelte 3,765 pounds (58.8 percent on the front wheels).
However the old car, at 200.6 inches long overall, stretches out a full 10.4 inches longer than the new Regal. And virtually all of that extra length can be seen in the Grand National's front and rear overhangs. Maybe this comparison isn't so applelike to orange-esque after all. OK, yeah, it still is.
Power to the Peoples
No bling, just menace.
Back in the '70s Buick imagined a turbocharged future where all its V8s would vanish in favor of turbocharged V6s. Even station wagons, cabs and pillow-upholstered Electras would have blower sixes under their hoods. Didn't happen. Frankly, when the first turbo 3.8-liter V6s showed up for the 1978 model year — making all of 165 horsepower when equipped with a four-barrel carburetor — there was every reason to think Buick was delusional.
Ultimately, though, it was the addition of sequential fuel injection for the 1984 model year that tamed the Buick turbo V6's manners and unleashed its beast. Sequential fuel injection (SFI) was advanced stuff back then, and Buick was proud enough of it to announce its presence on the GN's hood — that's the "SFI" part of the badge on the hood bulge. With far more precise fuel metering than a carburetor, the SFI system allowed Buick's engineers to precisely map the fuel delivery to the V6 to get the most from the big Garrett turbo heaving air into it.
Even with the SFI system, however, output only reached 200 hp. So Buick added an intercooler for 1986 that bumped the horsepower number to 235 and then 245 for 1987. Sure, the limited-production GNX with its larger turbo is even more powerful at 276 hp, but it's the plain old '87 that planted the Grand National's roots deep down into the soil of the Great Forest of Awesomeness.
Still, the 3.8-liter V6 under all the GN's turbo plumbing was a pretty primitive beast. With its iron block, iron heads, pushrods and two valves per cylinder it could, during 1987, only lump out 150 hp in naturally aspirated form.
Today's Turbocharged Regal
Understated and under braking.
In contrast, the new Regal's Ecotec four is vastly more modern and capable. Both the head and block are aluminum, the dual overhead cams operate four valves per cylinder, and, even better than sequential fuel injection, it incorporates direct injection which sprays fuel straight into each combustion chamber. And of course it's intercooled.
At 220 hp, the new Regal Turbo's engine is making just about 110 hp for each of it 2 liters. The math on the Grand National says that it only gets about 64.5 hp per liter from its turbo V6.
The old Buick may have it on its younger brother for total power, but the new one is far more efficient. And that shows up in the fuel economy numbers. Using 2008 testing standards, the EPA rates the 1987 Regal Grand National with its four-speed automatic transmission at 15 mpg in the city and 23 mpg on the highway running on premium fuel. GM estimates the 2011 Regal CXL Turbo, with its six-speed automatic, will achieve 18 mpg on the EPA city cycle and 29 mpg on the highway (premium fuel recommended but not required).
Not the Good Old Days
The 80s. When speedometers only went to 85 mph...and 55 was the most important number on the gauge.
As gorgeous and thrilling as Basquez's Grand National is from 30 feet away, up close it's still a late-'80s GM product. That means the big frameless side windows rattle in the tinny doors, there are big gaps between the body panels and not everything in the interior actually fits. This car was not built during GM's golden age for assembly quality.
Contrast that with the German-assembled Regal. The paint is lustrous, every piece fits tight and when the doors shut it sounds like a 30-pound dictionary hitting a solid oak table in the Library of Congress.
Maybe there's some nostalgia kicks to be had in the old Grand National's interior design. But when it comes to comfort, the new car blows it away. The new Regal's seats are much better shaped, the steering wheel has a nice substantial heft and all the instrumentation is easy to scan and read. The Grand National's seats were mushy back in 1987 and are no better now. And for a car this potent, that it has a speedometer that only reaches 85 mph is (still) so very silly.
Of course, the new Regal suffers from elephantitis of the A-pillars and the base of the windshield may as well be in another county. And for every button in the Grand National there are probably three in the new Regal. But that's the price we pay for having dozens of airbags and an acre-foot of entertainment technology aboard.
Up close the Grand National isn't as big as you may imagine. And the Regal CXL Turbo is bigger than you think.
By John Pearley Huffman, Contributor | Published Jan 3, 2011
With its 2011 Regal Turbo, Buick has either revived a storied name for a deserving new machine or is spitting on its own heritage. After all, the original Regal Turbos — those big, full-frame, rear-drive, two-door coupes produced between the 1978 and 1987 model years — have been sustaining Buick enthusiasm almost singlehandedly for more than 30 years. If it weren't for the Grand National, alpha dog of Regal Turbos, most enthusiasts would have forgotten about Buick a long time ago.
Of course, the 1987 Grand National and 2011 Regal Turbo sedan don't emerge from the same branch of Buick's family tree. The old GN is an anomaly: the only Buick of its turbocharged V6 kind, biased toward high performance and always intended as a specialized product with relatively low-volume sales.
In contrast, the new Regal Turbo is a mainstream, front-drive Buick, from the leading edge of its glimmering waterfall grille to the super shiny tri-shield emblem on its tail. It's the front-drive four-door sedan with which Buick intends to steal sales from cars like the Acura TSX and Lexus ES 350. Maybe even swipe up some Accord and Camry buyers.
All that doesn't mean this comparison is unfair. After all, when you can only have one piece of fruit it's reasonable to ask whether you prefer an apple or an orange.
High Eye Impact
After nearly 24 years, this is still what a proper Buick should look like. At night, this car practically disappears.
The Grand National's sharp-edged sheet metal first appeared 30 years ago as the 1981 Regal. Back then it was merely a successful updating of the downsized Regal coupe introduced as a '78 model. It was just another GM midsize coupe that, under the skin, was pretty much identical to the Chevrolet Monte Carlo, Pontiac Grand Prix and Oldsmobile Cutlass. There were millions of them.
But today, long after most of its brother big coupes have been recycled into Korean rebar, there are few cars left on the road that look like the old Regal. And nothing at all is left in production like the fortified Regal known as the Grand National, which first went on sale as a 1984 model. When Rafael Basquez's '87 GN showed up for Inside Line's test, it arrived looking like something that somehow had survived its species' extinction event. A complete dinosaur.
You know, a dinosaur like the Velociraptor or T. Rex. From its shovel nose to its rear deck spoiler, this is a car that speaks to the darkness and lust for power in our souls. The black Grand National carries the same sort of charismatic menace that inspires lonely women to write unsolicited marriage proposals to convicted mass murderers.
In contrast, the new 2011 Buick Regal CXL Turbo is, well, a pretty sedan. With gracefully arched lines that run from snout to rump, fenders that swell over 18-inch wheels and a dashing character line running down from the windshield and back to the rear bumper, the new Regal is antiseptically clean in the way that many new cars are today. If the Grand National is arrogant and aggressive, the new Regal Turbo is tidy, sensible, handsome and elegant.
Not So Different After All
There simply isn't anything like the old Buick Grand National in production today. Not even close. There are a lot of cars like the new Regal CXL Turbo, however.
The old Grand National and new Regal are, however, deceptively close to each other in size. The wheelbases, for example are virtually identical; the old car's gap runs 108.1 inches while the new car puts 107.8 inches between the front and rear wheels. And while the new Regal looks slim, Buick lists its overall width at 73.1 inches. The old GN, broad-shouldered beast it appears to be, is listed at only 71.6 inches wide. And at 58.4 inches tall, the new car towers over the old one that stands at just 54.5 inches.
The curb weights are even close. The Grand National came in at a relatively svelte 3,509 pounds (57 percent of it on the front wheels) while the new Regal hits the scale at a not-svelte 3,765 pounds (58.8 percent on the front wheels).
However the old car, at 200.6 inches long overall, stretches out a full 10.4 inches longer than the new Regal. And virtually all of that extra length can be seen in the Grand National's front and rear overhangs. Maybe this comparison isn't so applelike to orange-esque after all. OK, yeah, it still is.
Power to the Peoples
No bling, just menace.
Back in the '70s Buick imagined a turbocharged future where all its V8s would vanish in favor of turbocharged V6s. Even station wagons, cabs and pillow-upholstered Electras would have blower sixes under their hoods. Didn't happen. Frankly, when the first turbo 3.8-liter V6s showed up for the 1978 model year — making all of 165 horsepower when equipped with a four-barrel carburetor — there was every reason to think Buick was delusional.
Ultimately, though, it was the addition of sequential fuel injection for the 1984 model year that tamed the Buick turbo V6's manners and unleashed its beast. Sequential fuel injection (SFI) was advanced stuff back then, and Buick was proud enough of it to announce its presence on the GN's hood — that's the "SFI" part of the badge on the hood bulge. With far more precise fuel metering than a carburetor, the SFI system allowed Buick's engineers to precisely map the fuel delivery to the V6 to get the most from the big Garrett turbo heaving air into it.
Even with the SFI system, however, output only reached 200 hp. So Buick added an intercooler for 1986 that bumped the horsepower number to 235 and then 245 for 1987. Sure, the limited-production GNX with its larger turbo is even more powerful at 276 hp, but it's the plain old '87 that planted the Grand National's roots deep down into the soil of the Great Forest of Awesomeness.
Still, the 3.8-liter V6 under all the GN's turbo plumbing was a pretty primitive beast. With its iron block, iron heads, pushrods and two valves per cylinder it could, during 1987, only lump out 150 hp in naturally aspirated form.
Today's Turbocharged Regal
Understated and under braking.
In contrast, the new Regal's Ecotec four is vastly more modern and capable. Both the head and block are aluminum, the dual overhead cams operate four valves per cylinder, and, even better than sequential fuel injection, it incorporates direct injection which sprays fuel straight into each combustion chamber. And of course it's intercooled.
At 220 hp, the new Regal Turbo's engine is making just about 110 hp for each of it 2 liters. The math on the Grand National says that it only gets about 64.5 hp per liter from its turbo V6.
The old Buick may have it on its younger brother for total power, but the new one is far more efficient. And that shows up in the fuel economy numbers. Using 2008 testing standards, the EPA rates the 1987 Regal Grand National with its four-speed automatic transmission at 15 mpg in the city and 23 mpg on the highway running on premium fuel. GM estimates the 2011 Regal CXL Turbo, with its six-speed automatic, will achieve 18 mpg on the EPA city cycle and 29 mpg on the highway (premium fuel recommended but not required).
Not the Good Old Days
The 80s. When speedometers only went to 85 mph...and 55 was the most important number on the gauge.
As gorgeous and thrilling as Basquez's Grand National is from 30 feet away, up close it's still a late-'80s GM product. That means the big frameless side windows rattle in the tinny doors, there are big gaps between the body panels and not everything in the interior actually fits. This car was not built during GM's golden age for assembly quality.
Contrast that with the German-assembled Regal. The paint is lustrous, every piece fits tight and when the doors shut it sounds like a 30-pound dictionary hitting a solid oak table in the Library of Congress.
Maybe there's some nostalgia kicks to be had in the old Grand National's interior design. But when it comes to comfort, the new car blows it away. The new Regal's seats are much better shaped, the steering wheel has a nice substantial heft and all the instrumentation is easy to scan and read. The Grand National's seats were mushy back in 1987 and are no better now. And for a car this potent, that it has a speedometer that only reaches 85 mph is (still) so very silly.
Of course, the new Regal suffers from elephantitis of the A-pillars and the base of the windshield may as well be in another county. And for every button in the Grand National there are probably three in the new Regal. But that's the price we pay for having dozens of airbags and an acre-foot of entertainment technology aboard.
01-03-2011, 02:03 PM
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Still Wicked
Still one of the greatest hood blankets ever.
It takes some technique to launch the Grand National. Hold down the brake, load up the torque converter, let the boost build and the car rips up something good. Back when this GN was new, most tests had it running the quarter-mile in the mid-to-high 13-second range, with 0-60 coming in a few ticks under 5.0 seconds. But those tests were often abusive: throttle braking until the car was screaming and the boost was maximized. After all, back then, if the car broke, Buick could always build another one.
Rafael Basquez's GN had over 49,000 miles on its odometer and almost 24 years of seasoning when Inside Line got hold of it. It waltzed to 60 mph in 5.8 seconds and ran the quarter in 14.3 seconds at 96.1 mph. We weren't going to thump on it any harder in deference to the fact that Basquez seemed like a nice guy who didn't deserve to be stranded for our amusement.
In contrast, there's really no way to launch the new Regal Turbo with any authority. No matter what we did, it sort of shambled off the line like a college student on the way to an 8 a.m. class. But the engine wakes up as it passes 4 grand on the tachometer and the result is OK acceleration — 8.4 seconds from zero to 60 mph with the traction control off and 16.2 seconds in the quarter-mile at 89.7 mph. Leaving the traction control on barely modified that performance, with the quarter-mile elapsed time dropping to 16.1 seconds but the 0-60 time and trap speed staying the same.
In everyday trawling, the new Regal is simply an easier car with which to live than the GN. Its part-throttle power delivery is seamless and the six cogs in its automatic transaxle mean good around-town responsiveness and low engine speeds during highway cruises. The Grand National's four-speed automatic is a slick-shifting piece even by today's standards, but it simply doesn't have the range or impeccable computerized logic of the new Regal's box.
Handling the Past
They may not work as well as today's big wheels and low-profile tires, but 60-series rubber still fills out the wheelwell.
Basquez's GN rides on P235/60R15 front and P255/60R15 rear BFGoodrich Radial T/A tires mounted on the stock, stamped-steel wheels. Now these are fine tires to mount on a classic muscle machine being displayed on a lawn, but on pavement about the best that can be said about them is that they're more or less round. They're also significantly larger than the P215/65R15 Goodyear Eagle GTs that came as standard equipment on the Grand National.
On the skid pad the Grand National felt woozy, with the tires flexing and rebounding. Corrections weren't easy either, since the recirculating-ball power steering is slow, numb and connected to a front end wearing 24-year-old bushings. Put into that context, the GN's 0.77g orbit is heroic. The slalom wasn't a happy place for the GN either. Plagued by the same steering limitations that hobbled it on the skid pad, it could only muster a 59.2-mph average speed through the transitional handling challenge.
The P245/40R19 Goodyear Eagle RS-A all-season tires on the new Regal Turbo are not exactly exotic rubber, but they are more technologically advanced and their lower profile means far less sidewall flex. With good grip (if not a lot of steering feel) and only mild understeer, the new Regal casually knocked out a 0.84g skid pad performance with the stability control system turned off and 0.80g with it on. The slalom numbers — 65.8 mph with stability control off and 64.0 mph with it on — aren't world-beating, but solid.
Braking also came down in favor of the new Buick, with the Turbo Regal using its four ABS-equipped discs to stop in 121 feet from 60 mph. The Grand National needed 144 feet to get to a stop thank to its rear drums and lack of ABS.
It's Not Over Yet
No engine covers for the GN. Just a big steel turbo heaving into a big iron V6.
There's no doubt in our minds that we would rather be seen driving the Grand National over the new Regal Turbo. The old car is still an audacious piece of work, a machine that revels in its own ego. It makes interesting noises, you can feel it building speed and there's nothing like the sensation of the turbo hitting. This car has long ago proven that it's unforgettable.
Yeah, the new Regal Turbo is a vastly better commuting companion. It's more comfortable and more efficient, but it also lacks character. There's no noticeable exhaust note, no thrills to be had and the Ecotec isn't the smoothest-running four on Earth.
Thankfully, Buick hasn't played all of its cards just yet. A Regal GS is on its way and it has a much better chance of reestablishing the passion that has so many of us enamored of the turbocharged Regals of yesteryear. Buick promises that the GS, with its 255-hp version of the turbocharged Ecotec, will scat to 60 mph in under 7 seconds and deliver a driving experience that's "powerful and spirited." Sounds good: Deliver ours in black. And make sure it has the swagger of its badass grandfather, the Grand National.
Specs & Performance
0-30 mph (sec.) 2.4
0-45 mph (sec.) 3.8
0-60 mph (sec.) 5.8
0-75 mph (sec.) 8.6
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 14.3 @ 96.1
30-0 mph (ft.) 35
60-0 mph (ft.) 144
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 59.2
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.77
Acceleration Comments - Needs a brake torque launch to leave the line with any authority. Doing so builds the boost and loads the torque converter for a slight bit of spin that helps. Too much throttle hear though and it spins too much slowing down the times. Remarkably linear power delivery at wide open throttle. Astounded by how quick and smooth the shifts were. Funny to see the 85mph speedometer pegged well before the finish line.
Braking Comments - With no ABS, I need to stab, lift and then squeeze to avoid lockup. Not big shock that the pedal was pretty squishy.
Handling Comments - Skidpad: I could sense the sidewalls flexing and then releasing which kept me busy with steering input. Also, in second gear the turbo was always in flux which kept me busy with the throttle. Good thing the seats were cloth as the friction was the only thing keeping me in. Slalom: As with the skidpad, the flexing tires were another variable to deal with. Slow steering ratio, lack of feel and pronounced understeer require wide lines and early turn in. Had to lift and to get the front end to bite and then get back on the gas to make the final cone. A lot of work for a pretty average number.
0-30 mph (sec.) 3.4
0-45 mph (sec.) 5.6
0-60 mph (sec.) 8.4
0-75 mph (sec.) 11.9
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 16.2 @ 89.7
30-0 mph (ft.) 31
60-0 mph (ft.) 121
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 65.8
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) .84
Acceleration Comments - No matter what I tried, this car refused to leave the line with haste. It stumbles off the line and then picked up around 4,000rpm. Not at all convinced that the "sport" button does anything as our first default run with traction control on was no different that the later runs with TCS off and "sport" engaged. Upshifts are moderately fast and very smooth. Turbo is well cooled, no heat soak observed.
Braking Comments - Quite a lot of idle stroke before the pedal pushes back. Noisy tires and ABS. Arrow straight stops and reasonable fade resistance although I could smell the pads after the fourth stop. Completely average performance overall.
Handling Comments - Skid pad: Quite a lot of grip and not much feel through the wheel. Mild understeer at the limit. ESC uses a combination of closing the throttle down and selective brake application to slow it down. Steering weight in sport does not feel any different than normal mode. Handling: Up to about 8/10ths, the Regal is responsive, but beyond that it starts to lose composure. Understeer becomes an issue first and then the tires start to get greasy. Steering is light, but precise. With ESC on, it negates the understeer with subtle stabs of the brakes. Still, this is a respectable speed through the slalom, so it gets a solid rating.
Still one of the greatest hood blankets ever.
It takes some technique to launch the Grand National. Hold down the brake, load up the torque converter, let the boost build and the car rips up something good. Back when this GN was new, most tests had it running the quarter-mile in the mid-to-high 13-second range, with 0-60 coming in a few ticks under 5.0 seconds. But those tests were often abusive: throttle braking until the car was screaming and the boost was maximized. After all, back then, if the car broke, Buick could always build another one.
Rafael Basquez's GN had over 49,000 miles on its odometer and almost 24 years of seasoning when Inside Line got hold of it. It waltzed to 60 mph in 5.8 seconds and ran the quarter in 14.3 seconds at 96.1 mph. We weren't going to thump on it any harder in deference to the fact that Basquez seemed like a nice guy who didn't deserve to be stranded for our amusement.
In contrast, there's really no way to launch the new Regal Turbo with any authority. No matter what we did, it sort of shambled off the line like a college student on the way to an 8 a.m. class. But the engine wakes up as it passes 4 grand on the tachometer and the result is OK acceleration — 8.4 seconds from zero to 60 mph with the traction control off and 16.2 seconds in the quarter-mile at 89.7 mph. Leaving the traction control on barely modified that performance, with the quarter-mile elapsed time dropping to 16.1 seconds but the 0-60 time and trap speed staying the same.
In everyday trawling, the new Regal is simply an easier car with which to live than the GN. Its part-throttle power delivery is seamless and the six cogs in its automatic transaxle mean good around-town responsiveness and low engine speeds during highway cruises. The Grand National's four-speed automatic is a slick-shifting piece even by today's standards, but it simply doesn't have the range or impeccable computerized logic of the new Regal's box.
Handling the Past
They may not work as well as today's big wheels and low-profile tires, but 60-series rubber still fills out the wheelwell.
Basquez's GN rides on P235/60R15 front and P255/60R15 rear BFGoodrich Radial T/A tires mounted on the stock, stamped-steel wheels. Now these are fine tires to mount on a classic muscle machine being displayed on a lawn, but on pavement about the best that can be said about them is that they're more or less round. They're also significantly larger than the P215/65R15 Goodyear Eagle GTs that came as standard equipment on the Grand National.
On the skid pad the Grand National felt woozy, with the tires flexing and rebounding. Corrections weren't easy either, since the recirculating-ball power steering is slow, numb and connected to a front end wearing 24-year-old bushings. Put into that context, the GN's 0.77g orbit is heroic. The slalom wasn't a happy place for the GN either. Plagued by the same steering limitations that hobbled it on the skid pad, it could only muster a 59.2-mph average speed through the transitional handling challenge.
The P245/40R19 Goodyear Eagle RS-A all-season tires on the new Regal Turbo are not exactly exotic rubber, but they are more technologically advanced and their lower profile means far less sidewall flex. With good grip (if not a lot of steering feel) and only mild understeer, the new Regal casually knocked out a 0.84g skid pad performance with the stability control system turned off and 0.80g with it on. The slalom numbers — 65.8 mph with stability control off and 64.0 mph with it on — aren't world-beating, but solid.
Braking also came down in favor of the new Buick, with the Turbo Regal using its four ABS-equipped discs to stop in 121 feet from 60 mph. The Grand National needed 144 feet to get to a stop thank to its rear drums and lack of ABS.
It's Not Over Yet
No engine covers for the GN. Just a big steel turbo heaving into a big iron V6.
There's no doubt in our minds that we would rather be seen driving the Grand National over the new Regal Turbo. The old car is still an audacious piece of work, a machine that revels in its own ego. It makes interesting noises, you can feel it building speed and there's nothing like the sensation of the turbo hitting. This car has long ago proven that it's unforgettable.
Yeah, the new Regal Turbo is a vastly better commuting companion. It's more comfortable and more efficient, but it also lacks character. There's no noticeable exhaust note, no thrills to be had and the Ecotec isn't the smoothest-running four on Earth.
Thankfully, Buick hasn't played all of its cards just yet. A Regal GS is on its way and it has a much better chance of reestablishing the passion that has so many of us enamored of the turbocharged Regals of yesteryear. Buick promises that the GS, with its 255-hp version of the turbocharged Ecotec, will scat to 60 mph in under 7 seconds and deliver a driving experience that's "powerful and spirited." Sounds good: Deliver ours in black. And make sure it has the swagger of its badass grandfather, the Grand National.
Specs & Performance
0-30 mph (sec.) 2.4
0-45 mph (sec.) 3.8
0-60 mph (sec.) 5.8
0-75 mph (sec.) 8.6
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 14.3 @ 96.1
30-0 mph (ft.) 35
60-0 mph (ft.) 144
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 59.2
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.77
Acceleration Comments - Needs a brake torque launch to leave the line with any authority. Doing so builds the boost and loads the torque converter for a slight bit of spin that helps. Too much throttle hear though and it spins too much slowing down the times. Remarkably linear power delivery at wide open throttle. Astounded by how quick and smooth the shifts were. Funny to see the 85mph speedometer pegged well before the finish line.
Braking Comments - With no ABS, I need to stab, lift and then squeeze to avoid lockup. Not big shock that the pedal was pretty squishy.
Handling Comments - Skidpad: I could sense the sidewalls flexing and then releasing which kept me busy with steering input. Also, in second gear the turbo was always in flux which kept me busy with the throttle. Good thing the seats were cloth as the friction was the only thing keeping me in. Slalom: As with the skidpad, the flexing tires were another variable to deal with. Slow steering ratio, lack of feel and pronounced understeer require wide lines and early turn in. Had to lift and to get the front end to bite and then get back on the gas to make the final cone. A lot of work for a pretty average number.
0-30 mph (sec.) 3.4
0-45 mph (sec.) 5.6
0-60 mph (sec.) 8.4
0-75 mph (sec.) 11.9
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 16.2 @ 89.7
30-0 mph (ft.) 31
60-0 mph (ft.) 121
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 65.8
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) .84
Acceleration Comments - No matter what I tried, this car refused to leave the line with haste. It stumbles off the line and then picked up around 4,000rpm. Not at all convinced that the "sport" button does anything as our first default run with traction control on was no different that the later runs with TCS off and "sport" engaged. Upshifts are moderately fast and very smooth. Turbo is well cooled, no heat soak observed.
Braking Comments - Quite a lot of idle stroke before the pedal pushes back. Noisy tires and ABS. Arrow straight stops and reasonable fade resistance although I could smell the pads after the fourth stop. Completely average performance overall.
Handling Comments - Skid pad: Quite a lot of grip and not much feel through the wheel. Mild understeer at the limit. ESC uses a combination of closing the throttle down and selective brake application to slow it down. Steering weight in sport does not feel any different than normal mode. Handling: Up to about 8/10ths, the Regal is responsive, but beyond that it starts to lose composure. Understeer becomes an issue first and then the tires start to get greasy. Steering is light, but precise. With ESC on, it negates the understeer with subtle stabs of the brakes. Still, this is a respectable speed through the slalom, so it gets a solid rating.
01-03-2011, 05:14 PM
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I am confused about Edmunds' purpose for this comparasion; a collectible, near-antique and future classic GM coupe vs a brand new 4-door commuting appliance that nobody will remember in 20 years. 
This is quite a reach.
This is quite a reach.
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01-03-2011, 06:54 PM
#8
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The last Regal (97-04) hit 60mph in 8.1 seconds - naturally aspirated. The supercharged GS was much quicker still at 6.6 seconds.
I hope for GM's sake the new GS beats the prior one, but somehow I get the feeling it won't.
I hope for GM's sake the new GS beats the prior one, but somehow I get the feeling it won't.
01-03-2011, 07:34 PM
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in 87 they were pretty bad ***, i understand why you would think its slow, you weren't even an itch in your old mans crotch in 87
even 24 years later, that car still posted faster times (babying it) then 87 IROC-Z's, 87 Corvettes, etc. Not mind blowing fast by today's standards but back in 87 it was quite the hot ride.
Having to hear you say its slow is just plain ignorant, we apologize its not a veyron, putz
even 24 years later, that car still posted faster times (babying it) then 87 IROC-Z's, 87 Corvettes, etc. Not mind blowing fast by today's standards but back in 87 it was quite the hot ride.
Having to hear you say its slow is just plain ignorant, we apologize its not a veyron, putz
Last edited by 1994Z28Lt1; 01-03-2011 at 07:43 PM.
01-04-2011, 07:44 AM
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By the time production ended and GM switched to the W-body Regal people were calling GM begging them to keep building the old car. Demand in 1987 prompted GM to add more shifts and as a result they built and sold over 25,000 Grand Nationals that year.
01-04-2011, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Edmunds
The black Grand National carries the same sort of charismatic menace that inspires lonely women to write unsolicited marriage proposals to convicted mass murderers.
01-04-2011, 12:08 PM
#14
in 87 they were pretty bad ***, i understand why you would think its slow, you weren't even an itch in your old mans crotch in 87
even 24 years later, that car still posted faster times (babying it) then 87 IROC-Z's, 87 Corvettes, etc. Not mind blowing fast by today's standards but back in 87 it was quite the hot ride.
Having to hear you say its slow is just plain ignorant, we apologize its not a veyron, putz
even 24 years later, that car still posted faster times (babying it) then 87 IROC-Z's, 87 Corvettes, etc. Not mind blowing fast by today's standards but back in 87 it was quite the hot ride.
Having to hear you say its slow is just plain ignorant, we apologize its not a veyron, putz
and who the hell calls anyone a putz anymore douche detergant?
01-04-2011, 12:16 PM
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I think the one they tested has a good bit more in it than they got out of it. 90mph is a pretty high trap for a low 16(only a couple mph off the 97-04), with a driver mod I could see it doing mid 7sec 0-60. The GS is going to be AWD, with that and the extra horsepower I'm sure it will be right there with the supercharged one if it doesn't beat it. 255hp is pretty weak though, should be at least 300-350 as they already have the 220hp engine.
01-04-2011, 12:20 PM
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I fail to see what you're getting at? You can't expect a 24 year old car to still kick everythings *** today. And that "slow" car is just as fast as an LS1 car with a good launch, I really don't get how you could call it slow?
01-04-2011, 01:01 PM
#17
The 24 year old car was quicker than or comparable to the previous Mustang GT's until the new 5.0 came out. It's still quicker than a lot of the import sports cars.
I don't see what is not impressive about what that car brought to the table back then, and the fact that it is still comparable to a portion of today's slower "performance" cars.
You can't expect this car to still be beating today's Camaros, Mustangs, Corvettes etc., but that car dominated drag strips back in the 80's, and into the 90's.
I don't see what is not impressive about what that car brought to the table back then, and the fact that it is still comparable to a portion of today's slower "performance" cars.
You can't expect this car to still be beating today's Camaros, Mustangs, Corvettes etc., but that car dominated drag strips back in the 80's, and into the 90's.
01-04-2011, 01:09 PM
#18
The cars were legendary the moment they went SFI. Once a tune with boost was added they became 12 second cars. The GNX was the uber turbo Regal and was a 13 second car showroom stock, world-beating supercar performance for that decade.
By the time production ended and GM switched to the W-body Regal people were calling GM begging them to keep building the old car. Demand in 1987 prompted GM to add more shifts and as a result they built and sold over 25,000 Grand Nationals that year.
By the time production ended and GM switched to the W-body Regal people were calling GM begging them to keep building the old car. Demand in 1987 prompted GM to add more shifts and as a result they built and sold over 25,000 Grand Nationals that year.
True, I think they kept building them well into the 1988 model year's start up (late 1987). A similar thing happened with the 1996 Impala SS as well.
The 24 year old car was quicker than or comparable to the previous Mustang GT's until the new 5.0 came out. It's still quicker than a lot of the import sports cars.
I don't see what is not impressive about what that car brought to the table back then, and the fact that it is still comparable to a portion of today's slower "performance" cars.
You can't expect this car to still be beating today's Camaros, Mustangs, Corvettes etc., but that car dominated drag strips back in the 80's, and into the 90's.
I don't see what is not impressive about what that car brought to the table back then, and the fact that it is still comparable to a portion of today's slower "performance" cars.
You can't expect this car to still be beating today's Camaros, Mustangs, Corvettes etc., but that car dominated drag strips back in the 80's, and into the 90's.
01-04-2011, 03:40 PM
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They're combination of menace, comfort, practicality and insane speed with little tinkering is what made them legendary when they were new and legendary today.
01-04-2011, 06:31 PM
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Maybe its because when I was 10 y/o my uncle showed at Christmas 1985 with a 1986 GN. But I still love that car everytime I see it. I'll never forgot the sound of the turbo spooling.
