Automakers' Report Card: Who Still Owes Taxpayers Money?
09-21-2012, 12:22 PM
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Automakers' Report Card: Who Still Owes Taxpayers Money? I thought this was a very interesting article -
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmul...-surprise-you/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmul...-surprise-you/
It’s been three years since General Motors and Chrysler filed for bankruptcy, but with the political season in full swing, the two presidential candidates have put the auto industry bailouts back in the public eye, at least through the November election. Yet there’s only one Detroit automaker still in hock to U.S. taxpayers and – guess what? – it’s not GM or Chrysler.
Ford Motor owes the government $5.9 billion it borrowed in June 2009, the same month GM filed for bankruptcy. By Sept. 15, Ford needs to start paying that money back. In a government filing, the carmaker said $577 million is due within the next year, and the full amount must be paid off by June 15, 2022.
Ford Motor owes the government $5.9 billion it borrowed in June 2009, the same month GM filed for bankruptcy. By Sept. 15, Ford needs to start paying that money back. In a government filing, the carmaker said $577 million is due within the next year, and the full amount must be paid off by June 15, 2022.
09-21-2012, 01:22 PM
#2
So, they have to pay back 5.9 billion in 10 years.
As of 8/13/12, the government stands to lose $25 billion on the bailout of GM and Chrysler.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...TO01/208130392
As of 8/13/12, the government stands to lose $25 billion on the bailout of GM and Chrysler.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...TO01/208130392
09-21-2012, 04:53 PM
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"I'm buying a ford because they didn't take money from the government".
I just get a kick out of that, I don't care what people buy, I buy all kinds. I just laugh when people use that reason.
I just get a kick out of that, I don't care what people buy, I buy all kinds. I just laugh when people use that reason.
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09-24-2012, 04:03 AM
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Salesman: "I will sell you this brand new 2013 SRT Viper for only $35k."
Consumer: "No, sorry, I can't do it, Chrysler accepted government loans so I will have to spend $55k+ on a Mustang GT500 instead."
09-25-2012, 03:01 PM
#10
So, they have to pay back 5.9 billion in 10 years.
As of 8/13/12, the government stands to lose $25 billion on the bailout of GM and Chrysler.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...TO01/208130392
As of 8/13/12, the government stands to lose $25 billion on the bailout of GM and Chrysler.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...TO01/208130392
= /endthread
09-26-2012, 12:25 AM
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09-26-2012, 07:47 AM
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Not sure how you delineate, but GM paid back their "loan" portion of the "bailout" and if the gov't holds onto the stock - and we all hope it recovers to the $50+/share cost - and sells it for $50+ they were never really "given" money - are they not paying it back?
They all used/took gov't money and at least the Domestic three plan on paying it back. Now companies like Verizon, GE, Harley-Davidson, Caterpillar, BMW and Toyota all "took" US money and have either zero intention of paying it back or it hasn't surfaced that they will. That isn't including all the bank bailouts the gov't handed out either.
They all used/took gov't money and at least the Domestic three plan on paying it back. Now companies like Verizon, GE, Harley-Davidson, Caterpillar, BMW and Toyota all "took" US money and have either zero intention of paying it back or it hasn't surfaced that they will. That isn't including all the bank bailouts the gov't handed out either.
09-26-2012, 11:01 AM
#13
They all used/took gov't money and at least the Domestic three plan on paying it back. Now companies like Verizon, GE, Harley-Davidson, Caterpillar, BMW and Toyota all "took" US money and have either zero intention of paying it back or it hasn't surfaced that they will. That isn't including all the bank bailouts the gov't handed out either.
09-26-2012, 12:00 PM
#14
Bailout funds were the Government injecting money, buying (appropriating) stock, and then giving those shares to the Unions to cover the unfunded liability of the pension plan.
Basically, GM owed $X to the pension fund of the UAW. They did not have the cash. In the structure of the bankruptcy the government bought (appropriated) the shares, and redistributed them to cover liabilities. In this case the UAW got X number of shares to cover the oustanding Unfunded Accrued Liability of the pension plan. GM has no obligation to pay that money back going forward, even though they were obligated to cover that funding in the past.
09-26-2012, 12:07 PM
#15
Not sure how you delineate, but GM paid back their "loan" portion of the "bailout" and if the gov't holds onto the stock - and we all hope it recovers to the $50+/share cost - and sells it for $50+ they were never really "given" money - are they not paying it back?
They all used/took gov't money and at least the Domestic three plan on paying it back. Now companies like Verizon, GE, Harley-Davidson, Caterpillar, BMW and Toyota all "took" US money and have either zero intention of paying it back or it hasn't surfaced that they will. That isn't including all the bank bailouts the gov't handed out either.
They all used/took gov't money and at least the Domestic three plan on paying it back. Now companies like Verizon, GE, Harley-Davidson, Caterpillar, BMW and Toyota all "took" US money and have either zero intention of paying it back or it hasn't surfaced that they will. That isn't including all the bank bailouts the gov't handed out either.
1. Took money.
2. Filed bankruptcy.
3. Took more money in exchange for stock in New GM.
4. Took more money in the form of loans.
5. Paid back item #4, which was by far the smallest of the amounts in items #1, #3, and #4.
We (taxpayers) all hope the Government can at least recoup the price per share for a breakeven, but I'm going to doubt that ever happens in actuality. It will happen, but at the point that inflation has tanked the value of a dollar to the point that the headlines look good ($50 today is worth more than $50 in five years).
Also, all car manufacturers on US soil took government money. The largest economy in the world had crashed - no one is prepared for that. But to lump GM in with Ford is misinformed. I won't argue the other companies. A lot of companies took bailout funds during the crisis - many were forced to whether they needed it or not (I recall a scandal involving a bank that didn't need bailout money using the money for big bonuses because Washington refused to allow early repayment of the money).
10-02-2012, 11:24 AM
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