AutoBlog - How the Super Sport will become Chevy's four-door Corvette halo car
12-01-2012, 08:45 AM
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AutoBlog - How the Super Sport will become Chevy's four-door Corvette halo car There are two ways in which the Super Sport will not be the return of the Pontiac G8: It's going upmarket and it's not for the masses.
By Jonathon Ramsey
Posted Nov 30th 2012 7:57PM
Yesterday on a stage on the Encore Theater at The Wynn Resort in Las Vegas, Chevrolet revealed its NASCAR Super Sport, the race car that will contest next year's Sprint Cup series. A lot of people are talking about this car, and doing so well beyond the NASCAR fraternity – we were told that 30 minutes after it began the car became the number one trending topic on Twitter. The car looks great, Jeff Gordon showed up for some banter, everyone who was there applauded, the assembled drivers said the the right things.
But it was at lunch after the event with Mark Reuss, president of General Motors North America, and Jim Caldwell, US vice president of performance vehicles and motorsports, that we learned what we really wanted to know. That story centered on the car that the NASCAR Chevrolet SS heralds, the production Chevrolet SS that will go on sale late next year. Reuss was quick to lay out two of the biggest issues surrounding it: "The only reason we brought this car over is to go racing," and "This is not a return of the Pontiac G8."
So let's get the obligatory NASCAR derision out of the way first, shall we? Yes, NASCAR Chevrolet SS is the Bowtie's version of NASCAR's 2013 not-really-Car-of-Tomorrow, meaning it's got a tube-frame chassis that you won't find on the options sheet of the production SS. And yes, it's covered in decals that mimic the features and lines of the SS production car, except for the rather important part where it has just two doors to the production car's four doors. So no, it's not exactly a stock car, and even if it wins on Sunday you can't really buy it on Monday.
Yet the 2013 car – no longer called the CoT – is a huge step for NASCAR, nearly two years in the works, to try to get more "stock" back into the series. Primary reasons for the seven-year development of the 2007 CoT were driver safety, lower costs and improved competition, but the formula went so far that teams were running "a template car, it was just decals," Reuss said. A press colleague added, "You couldn't tell what car was coming out of Turn 4 until you saw the number." "It became about drivers and sponsors," said Reuss, "and we said 'hey, we need to get back to the stock car roots.'"
Chevrolet was one of the first manufacturers to go to NASCAR executives to suggest a collaboration on a new formula. Caldwell said the three hot points that Chevrolet had were that "We want the car we race to be the car we sell," which is also about how the race car looks, "we want relevant technologies and we want biofuels." NASCAR could address two of those, which next year's car does. If you're wondering about the biofuels request, here's a look at just some of Chevrolet's manfacturer and engine supplier championship victories in 2012: Ryan Hunter-Reay's championship-winning Indycar uses a Chevy V6, the C6.R Corvette took the ALMS GT series, as did the Grand Am Daytona prototype Corvette, the Chevy Cruze took the World Touring Car Championship, Holden nabbed Australia's V8 Supercars championship. All those other series use ethanol.
Beyond the surface initiative of the first request – and a look at the Stock Surfaces slide (above) reveals a close similarity between the NASCAR SS and the one you'll be able to buy – there was also work for Chevy to do. That's why the front-wheel-drive Impala is out and the rear-wheel-drive, small-block-V8-powered SS is in.
Reuss has a particular interest in what happens with the SS because he was Managing Director at Holden while the next-generation Holden Commodore, the VE series – the car that is the SS in its original guise – was being developed. He said that from inception, it was decided that the VE series would be the car that would become Chevrolet's RWD halo sedan, rumors from three years ago even pegging it as a Chevy SS, and spearhead its NASCAR efforts.
The Australia-to-US move has been tried before with the Pontiac GTO and G8, neither one working out as hoped. There are two vital ways in which the SS will not be The Pontiac G8 2.0, however: It's going upmarket and it's not for the masses.
In fact, Reuss said the SS is a completely different car from the G8, specifically in terms of refinement and NVH, and that's before you get to the high-power small-block V8 that, in his words, makes the SS "a four-door Corvette." The user interface, the tactile points, the perceived and real touches are a step in another direction, "quite different" is what we were told. Above that, Reuss said the entire SS package has been about making sure all aspects of the car fit together. "The integration in NVH, ride and handling has to match, and the refinement of the car will match the performance of the car." The meaning for us is, "Don't expect this to be like the G8 or the G8 GXP." We should expect it to be better. We don't have a problem with that, since the G8 GXP was one of our favorite cars.
Any time you mention the word Corvette, you're probably not talking about an inexpensive car. Add two more doors, three more seats, the tuning work needed to keep the word "Corvette" in the conversation and the phrase "halo car," and you're definitely not talking about an inexpensive vehicle. Therefore, Chevy is treating the SS like a halo car: Instead of making grand predictions about production volumes or churning out a performance car that sits on dealer lots, Reuss said, "We will fill the orders of the people who want them."
In terms of where SS buyers might also be looking, Caldwell said, "We're in a unique spot because there isn't a lot of competition at the Chevy level."
When we succumbed to asking the boilerplate "Who is this car for?" question that always comes up when a manufacturer presents an upmarket offering, Reuss looked thoughtful and said, "Anyone who has the right amount of money and shows up in a Chevrolet dealership, we will sell them this car." Point taken. "You don't want to overthink this stuff – we haven't focus-grouped it," he added. "It's going to be a really good car. People are going to want it." Right on.
Said buyer could be faced with a shorter options sheet than that of the G8, though, Reuss saying "Pontiac had all kinds of options and trim levels [for the G8]. This will be different." Again, this sounds like halo-car talk.
As for the name, there is a bit of heritage to the SS badge as a nameplate, but it seems this was more about steering clear of what has come before. There was an SS concept car in 2003, and in 1957 there was a factory-backed SS racing project that used the Corvette but it didn't get beyond a few laps of of one race. "We raced the Impala, Monte Carlo, Regal, Grand Prix, and they were all front-wheel-drive in their last [production] versions," Reuss said, "and we didn't want to come up with a new name for it." As such, what's happening now is also about returning some lustre to the SS badge, assuming it wins on Sunday come 2013: Reuss said he purged all of the SS models from the Chevrolet line-up except on the Camaro because none of the other offerings were about increased performance, only trim pieces, which is a bit of a slap in the face to an acronym for "Super Sport."
It will be three months before we see the production version of the SS revealed at Daytona Speed Week, the same week the NASCAR SS hits the track, but almost a year before we can buy it. Asked by another journo whether he thought the SS was American enough, Reuss said – hinting at the decades-old icon it will house in its engine bay – "It's American enough."
By Jonathon Ramsey
Posted Nov 30th 2012 7:57PM
Yesterday on a stage on the Encore Theater at The Wynn Resort in Las Vegas, Chevrolet revealed its NASCAR Super Sport, the race car that will contest next year's Sprint Cup series. A lot of people are talking about this car, and doing so well beyond the NASCAR fraternity – we were told that 30 minutes after it began the car became the number one trending topic on Twitter. The car looks great, Jeff Gordon showed up for some banter, everyone who was there applauded, the assembled drivers said the the right things.
But it was at lunch after the event with Mark Reuss, president of General Motors North America, and Jim Caldwell, US vice president of performance vehicles and motorsports, that we learned what we really wanted to know. That story centered on the car that the NASCAR Chevrolet SS heralds, the production Chevrolet SS that will go on sale late next year. Reuss was quick to lay out two of the biggest issues surrounding it: "The only reason we brought this car over is to go racing," and "This is not a return of the Pontiac G8."
So let's get the obligatory NASCAR derision out of the way first, shall we? Yes, NASCAR Chevrolet SS is the Bowtie's version of NASCAR's 2013 not-really-Car-of-Tomorrow, meaning it's got a tube-frame chassis that you won't find on the options sheet of the production SS. And yes, it's covered in decals that mimic the features and lines of the SS production car, except for the rather important part where it has just two doors to the production car's four doors. So no, it's not exactly a stock car, and even if it wins on Sunday you can't really buy it on Monday.
Yet the 2013 car – no longer called the CoT – is a huge step for NASCAR, nearly two years in the works, to try to get more "stock" back into the series. Primary reasons for the seven-year development of the 2007 CoT were driver safety, lower costs and improved competition, but the formula went so far that teams were running "a template car, it was just decals," Reuss said. A press colleague added, "You couldn't tell what car was coming out of Turn 4 until you saw the number." "It became about drivers and sponsors," said Reuss, "and we said 'hey, we need to get back to the stock car roots.'"
Chevrolet was one of the first manufacturers to go to NASCAR executives to suggest a collaboration on a new formula. Caldwell said the three hot points that Chevrolet had were that "We want the car we race to be the car we sell," which is also about how the race car looks, "we want relevant technologies and we want biofuels." NASCAR could address two of those, which next year's car does. If you're wondering about the biofuels request, here's a look at just some of Chevrolet's manfacturer and engine supplier championship victories in 2012: Ryan Hunter-Reay's championship-winning Indycar uses a Chevy V6, the C6.R Corvette took the ALMS GT series, as did the Grand Am Daytona prototype Corvette, the Chevy Cruze took the World Touring Car Championship, Holden nabbed Australia's V8 Supercars championship. All those other series use ethanol.
Beyond the surface initiative of the first request – and a look at the Stock Surfaces slide (above) reveals a close similarity between the NASCAR SS and the one you'll be able to buy – there was also work for Chevy to do. That's why the front-wheel-drive Impala is out and the rear-wheel-drive, small-block-V8-powered SS is in.
Reuss has a particular interest in what happens with the SS because he was Managing Director at Holden while the next-generation Holden Commodore, the VE series – the car that is the SS in its original guise – was being developed. He said that from inception, it was decided that the VE series would be the car that would become Chevrolet's RWD halo sedan, rumors from three years ago even pegging it as a Chevy SS, and spearhead its NASCAR efforts.
The Australia-to-US move has been tried before with the Pontiac GTO and G8, neither one working out as hoped. There are two vital ways in which the SS will not be The Pontiac G8 2.0, however: It's going upmarket and it's not for the masses.
In fact, Reuss said the SS is a completely different car from the G8, specifically in terms of refinement and NVH, and that's before you get to the high-power small-block V8 that, in his words, makes the SS "a four-door Corvette." The user interface, the tactile points, the perceived and real touches are a step in another direction, "quite different" is what we were told. Above that, Reuss said the entire SS package has been about making sure all aspects of the car fit together. "The integration in NVH, ride and handling has to match, and the refinement of the car will match the performance of the car." The meaning for us is, "Don't expect this to be like the G8 or the G8 GXP." We should expect it to be better. We don't have a problem with that, since the G8 GXP was one of our favorite cars.
Any time you mention the word Corvette, you're probably not talking about an inexpensive car. Add two more doors, three more seats, the tuning work needed to keep the word "Corvette" in the conversation and the phrase "halo car," and you're definitely not talking about an inexpensive vehicle. Therefore, Chevy is treating the SS like a halo car: Instead of making grand predictions about production volumes or churning out a performance car that sits on dealer lots, Reuss said, "We will fill the orders of the people who want them."
In terms of where SS buyers might also be looking, Caldwell said, "We're in a unique spot because there isn't a lot of competition at the Chevy level."
When we succumbed to asking the boilerplate "Who is this car for?" question that always comes up when a manufacturer presents an upmarket offering, Reuss looked thoughtful and said, "Anyone who has the right amount of money and shows up in a Chevrolet dealership, we will sell them this car." Point taken. "You don't want to overthink this stuff – we haven't focus-grouped it," he added. "It's going to be a really good car. People are going to want it." Right on.
Said buyer could be faced with a shorter options sheet than that of the G8, though, Reuss saying "Pontiac had all kinds of options and trim levels [for the G8]. This will be different." Again, this sounds like halo-car talk.
As for the name, there is a bit of heritage to the SS badge as a nameplate, but it seems this was more about steering clear of what has come before. There was an SS concept car in 2003, and in 1957 there was a factory-backed SS racing project that used the Corvette but it didn't get beyond a few laps of of one race. "We raced the Impala, Monte Carlo, Regal, Grand Prix, and they were all front-wheel-drive in their last [production] versions," Reuss said, "and we didn't want to come up with a new name for it." As such, what's happening now is also about returning some lustre to the SS badge, assuming it wins on Sunday come 2013: Reuss said he purged all of the SS models from the Chevrolet line-up except on the Camaro because none of the other offerings were about increased performance, only trim pieces, which is a bit of a slap in the face to an acronym for "Super Sport."
It will be three months before we see the production version of the SS revealed at Daytona Speed Week, the same week the NASCAR SS hits the track, but almost a year before we can buy it. Asked by another journo whether he thought the SS was American enough, Reuss said – hinting at the decades-old icon it will house in its engine bay – "It's American enough."
12-01-2012, 09:58 AM
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It's not a car marketed to the masses. That pretty much means it's not going to be affordable to every middle class family in America. That's what the Impala is for, IMO.
12-01-2012, 11:21 AM
#6
I find it funny that the G8 was a "flop" because it didn't sell millions of units, so instead, lets just sell fewer of the car in general and not make it as common.
From what I have seen I would rather have a V car instead of one of these, especially if they are going to be priced similarly.
12-02-2012, 12:36 AM
#7
the G8 was a flop because they didnt give it enough time. they had it out on the market for about 2 years and were still making changes to it once they decided to stop production. people didnt have a chance to get to know it. I love my G8 (tainted hates it but he just got screwed) and everyone that rides in it loves it. the styling is spot on, the interior and ride is super comfortable and it has some pretty good performance. yea it could use some new technology on the interior like navigation but thats a minor thing. i feel that one of the reasons the GTO flopped is because they didnt really allow much traction without massive modifications to fit a wider tire. my friends GTO is just rapes everything and its 500hp to the rear all motor. but again, people didnt really give it a chance
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12-02-2012, 12:11 PM
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It's not going to be priced the same as a CTS-V which is a 70k+ car. It will be more than a G8 GXP and there will only be a few thousand imported per year. That's about all Holden can spare for the US market.
12-02-2012, 12:17 PM
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It's likely going to be the next version of the car below with a new (and likely supercharged) powertrain and bowties in place of the lions.
http://www.hsv.com.au/e3/GTS/
The G8 GXP was not the big daddy they make at home, it was the standard sedan with front Brembos and an LS3 in place of the L76. The Super Sport may very well be the top dog they sell Down Under this time which is a much better car.
12-02-2012, 12:30 PM
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The CTS-V has a $64k base price, and comes fully loaded at that price(only real options on top of that are $3,400 Recaros and a $1200 Ultraview sunroof). The SS is going to start at a minimum of $55-60k based on this article. I would call that as being priced the same.
12-02-2012, 08:40 PM
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The CTS-V has a $64k base price, and comes fully loaded at that price(only real options on top of that are $3,400 Recaros and a $1200 Ultraview sunroof). The SS is going to start at a minimum of $55-60k based on this article. I would call that as being priced the same.
http://www.cadillac.com/cts-v-luxury-sedan.html
MSRP¹ STARTING AT $64,515
FROM $64,515 - $74,910
The Super Sport is only going to overlap the CTS-V's price with dealer help gouging.
12-02-2012, 09:14 PM
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From GM's site-
MSRP1 starting at $63,215
Destination Freight Charge $895
Gas Guzzler Tax $1,300
OPTIONS
Black Diamond Tricoat $995
19" Satin Graphite wheels $800
Midnight Sapele Wood Trim Package Remove $600
Brembo® brake calipers, Red $595
RECARO® performance seats $3,400
Sueded steering wheel and shift **** $300
UltraView® power sunroof $1,150
OPTIONS TOTAL $7,840
TOTAL MSRP $73,250
PRICE $73,250*
Those are all the options and prices. There is no way they are coming out with a 4-door car that's going to be quicker than the new base C7, or even the base C6, for anything less than a starting price of $55k.
MSRP1 starting at $63,215
Destination Freight Charge $895
Gas Guzzler Tax $1,300
OPTIONS
Black Diamond Tricoat $995
19" Satin Graphite wheels $800
Midnight Sapele Wood Trim Package Remove $600
Brembo® brake calipers, Red $595
RECARO® performance seats $3,400
Sueded steering wheel and shift **** $300
UltraView® power sunroof $1,150
OPTIONS TOTAL $7,840
TOTAL MSRP $73,250
PRICE $73,250*
Those are all the options and prices. There is no way they are coming out with a 4-door car that's going to be quicker than the new base C7, or even the base C6, for anything less than a starting price of $55k.
12-03-2012, 08:36 AM
#16
I was really considering this car, but they just priced it out of my range. If I had that kind of money to blow on a car, I'd still opt for the CTS-V, which is top of the food chain in my mind. I don't see this car offering anything the CTS-V doesn't have, and with all things being equal, I'd choose the status of Cadillac over the "generic" Chevy any day.
12-03-2012, 10:58 AM
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I was really considering this car, but they just priced it out of my range. If I had that kind of money to blow on a car, I'd still opt for the CTS-V, which is top of the food chain in my mind. I don't see this car offering anything the CTS-V doesn't have, and with all things being equal, I'd choose the status of Cadillac over the "generic" Chevy any day.
12-03-2012, 04:09 PM
#18
G8 wheelbase = 115"
CTS-V wheelbase = 113"
G8 GXP weight = ~3950 lbs.
CTS-V weight = ~4250 lbs.
I don't see how the CTS is huge. It is basically the same size as the G8, plus about 300lbs, which I'm sure is noticeable on handling aspects but definitely not noticeable under acceleration, given the powertrains. The CTS has more **** on the center stack than the G8, but I call that a cockpit type feel and I like it. Others feel cramped by it, and overwhelmed by the excessive buttons. To each their own.
I love the G8s, and if I find a GXP next summer when I'm shopping, I'll probably go that route. Unless the V is in my price range. Personal preference.
Since we don't know **** about the new SS, I find it extremely hard to believe that it will be "better in every other measure" than a V. It has also been proven that raw HP can beat a better handling car - see '13 GT500 v. '12 ZL1.
Bottom line, for me anyway, is I will not pay more than $50K for a new Chevrolet car unless it is a Corvette.
CTS-V wheelbase = 113"
G8 GXP weight = ~3950 lbs.
CTS-V weight = ~4250 lbs.
I don't see how the CTS is huge. It is basically the same size as the G8, plus about 300lbs, which I'm sure is noticeable on handling aspects but definitely not noticeable under acceleration, given the powertrains. The CTS has more **** on the center stack than the G8, but I call that a cockpit type feel and I like it. Others feel cramped by it, and overwhelmed by the excessive buttons. To each their own.
I love the G8s, and if I find a GXP next summer when I'm shopping, I'll probably go that route. Unless the V is in my price range. Personal preference.
Since we don't know **** about the new SS, I find it extremely hard to believe that it will be "better in every other measure" than a V. It has also been proven that raw HP can beat a better handling car - see '13 GT500 v. '12 ZL1.
Bottom line, for me anyway, is I will not pay more than $50K for a new Chevrolet car unless it is a Corvette.
12-04-2012, 12:04 AM
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Since we don't know **** about the new SS, I find it extremely hard to believe that it will be "better in every other measure" than a V. It has also been proven that raw HP can beat a better handling car - see '13 GT500 v. '12 ZL1.
Bottom line, for me anyway, is I will not pay more than $50K for a new Chevrolet car unless it is a Corvette.
Bottom line, for me anyway, is I will not pay more than $50K for a new Chevrolet car unless it is a Corvette.
The G8 is a better rendered car regardless of price and is much more in line with the Euro competition GM so badly wants Cadillac to be equal to. The CTS-V, especially the wagon has the aformentioned novelty factor going for it but it really not a tremendously nice or well rounded car.
I certainly don't like my knee rubbing against the center stack when driving one. I really don't like looking down to not only see the temperature but pressing a button ten times to adjust it. The Recaros feel okay but are trimmed with leather that looks more like a banana peel than the natural hides you get in virtually any European car, even VWs and Volvos. I've noticed here that Vs that are only a year or two old with around 10k miles on them feel like they're going to fall apart. That kind of sucks for a car that GM asks 70k for new.
We also know a tremendous amount about the Super Sport, it is afterall a G8 which we have. Which was an excellent car with few if any shortcomings for what it cost new. The Super Sport will build on that with a tremendous massage inside and out to bring it up to 2012 standards and with a LT1 or LSA under the hood. The MSRP is going to be similar to a Charger SRT8 but it will be a substantially better car than the SRT just as the G8 GT and GXP were in 2009.
I personally wouldn't buy a Corvette new either, the depreciation on them is killer and they are very common. That wasn't the case with the G8 either and it won't be with the planned 5,000 or so Super Sports hitting our shores each year for three or so years it will most certainly be worth much more than the majority of late model Corvettes and even CTS-Vs for the matter.
If you have the cash to buy new the Super Sport is going to be a much better bet for a ride that is something truly unique, truly awesome in every respect and truly valuable down the road.