Shinkaze

Despite strong demand, Mustang buyers won't pay over sticker

Article from Autoweek: http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101223

Now I could point to half a dozen reasons why I think this is the case, but all that aside this does not bode well for the "Pony car/Muscle car" market. The GTO and CTS-V aren't exactly flying out of the showroom either, so I have to wonder if a greater problem with the market is to blame. What's more I have to wonder what lower than expected demand for the CTS-V, GTO, and new Mustang are going to do to the future Camaro and next gen GTO?


Myself personally? I think when you have cars like the G35, Acura TL and Chrysler 300C that are all quality automobiles with strong performance (we sort of live in an 11 Sec fantasy world at LS1Tech, the rest of the world considers 14 seconds to be "really fast"), it marginalizes the need to sacrifice practicality, quality, features, etc to have a car that runs a half second quicker in the Qtr mile. Thoughts? Anyone else agree?

Then there are those that "ARE" looking for the super fast cars, and I think many of those are going to the EVO and WRX STi. I've seen a ton of those on the road, and it's impossible to argue that they aren't modern muscle cars since they run as fast as a stock LS1 or Mustang Cobra in the Qtr mile, and destroy us in the twisties, and I ahve to admit they're easy as hell to modify.

I'm begining to wonder if the only market left for a true Mustang, Camaro, GTO is going to be those that just "want" a car like that, while the masses who are looking for great performance will gravitate towards the extremes of EVO/STi on one end and the 300C, TL & G35 on the other.

I sort of see the GTO and Mustang as percipitating into the middle and the market there doesn't seam to be as strong. All that said it will be interesting to see what happens when Pontiac offers the first affordable 400hp motor to the masses with the GTO. (Yes I know the Cobra makes that sort of power, but it was never marketed at an even 400, I think that's fairly big in the minds of the consumer).

-Adam

NOSjohn

iTrader: (9)

My friend works for a local Fuuuuuuuuurd dealer. They got in 4 Mud-stain GT's...all sold within 1 day at sticker.

I'm not sure what your point is...you shift from your subject with regard to customers paying over sticker, then talk about imports and then back to american made cars.

Shinkaze

Well the Autoweek article actually theorizes that the reason the Mustang is not debuting to the same deamnd as the 350Z and similar is because Ford has set a precedent of strong discounts on their car lines, so the Ford consumer walks into a dealership expecting a deal. Anyhow give the article a read.

While I personally do not like the new Mustang GT that much, I really want to see it sell like gang busters so that GM sees a strong market for the Camaro. GM understands (and has said as much numerous times) that the "Pony Car" market is only so big and that adding models only decreases the size of the slices of the pie rather than making the pie itself any larger.

-Adam

NOSjohn

iTrader: (9)

Ah, now I see. Autoweek is a joke. They can only theorize because they aren't out and around visually grasping who and what is selling. I find that an issue with some large magazines. Their writers exploit too much of their own theory and/or opinion, then people read it and it's supposed to be gospel.

From what I've seen, and I'm not a Furd advocate, they are selling like hot-cakes. The local dealer had to bring in a red one from a bigger dealership in PA, due to them (the local dealership) not being able to keep them in stock.

Dom

iTrader: (2)

The dealers are responsible for slow GTO sales. They're overpriced to begin with then dealers sold them for way over sticker. Reminds me when they were selling SSs for $33K.

GAME OVER

Yea, i remember when i saw ws6's @ the dealership for 36,000

TriShield

Coupes are not strong sellers in North America, that's why the new Dodge Charger has four doors (and it also comes with a standard V6). The only exception to the rule has been the Mustang, otherwise people here simply don't buy coupes in droves.

I wouldn't pay sticker for just about any new, fairly mainstream car either, it's almost never worth it. If GM sold the Ute SS or Ford sold the Falcon XR6T here then I may be persuaded...

Shinkaze

No, coupe sales are actually quite strong (G35, 350Z, 330/325Ci, etc), and I think you all are missing the point of the article, because Ford has set such a precedent of "Don't pay sticker" on all their other lines, people are expecting the same from teh rest of the brand as well. I'm sure Mustang sales are going to be high volume as well, but you'll notice the Autoweek article is pointing to how cars like the PT Cruiser and 350Z were able to maintain sticker for a long period of time, while the Mustang is already being sold at discount. This doesn't bode well for the long haul of that car. (Which has only been out for maybe two months?) If memory serves two months after the GTO hit showrooms, Pontiac dealers were still asking over sticker for those cars, a year later and we're seeing astoundingly deep discounts on the GTO. If the 2005 Mustang (A banner model, and the first clean sheet design sinc ethe Carter administration) is starting off discounted, then the price was too high to begin with.

JBsZ06

Ford should do what the chrysler group has done with the 300C..

Raise the price of the car for a grand...then give a thousand dollar discount.

I like the mustang. 26 grand its a hell of a car.

IMHO

JackZ28

Pretty soon, you'll be paying $50,000 for a new Mustang GT.

Dom

iTrader: (2)

I wonder if this has anything to do with the winter coming and the market in general for sports cars sucks right now. It's pretty bad for all cars, but even more so for RWD sports coupes.

Shinkaze

Well my theory is still the same. If you want a performance car in that price range you'll just step up to an EVO or STi. If you want Luxury you'll get a 300C.

Keep in mind too that

EVO = Mercedes/Chrysler
STi = GM

So we're not totally off the table, however I'm worried about the sluggish GTO/2005 Mustang GT sales being an indicator for how GM will approach the next gen Camaro. Many have said the Camaro was was behind the Mutang in sales because it was too performance focused, whereas the Mustang was easier to live with. I have to admit my M3 is almost an identical foot print lay out to a SN95 Mustang, and I'm finding it much easier to live with than my Firebird. (getting in and out, having a real trunk, etc).

I think the GTO is going down the right path, but at too high of a price point, I might be willing to give up some of the GTo's straight line performance for the Luxury/Handling of a G35 or Luxury/practicality of a 300C or Acura TL. If the GTO is going to be a sales success I think it really needs more amenities (and a service department on par with Infiniti) I'm sure that the 2007 GTO is going to be a home run and will address many of my own complaints about the car, but I'm guess what I'm saying is that in order to be a smashing success it needs to beat the competition in Performance and Luxury.

The Mustang OTOH is lower end, but it really isn't that remarkable in either performance or luxury and to that end I think there are better deals out there.

Maybe the new Cobra will just be a smoking bad-*** (fingers crossed).

-Adam, rambling incoherent fool

MSI

Mustang is already being sold at a discount???
I've yet to see one priced sold below MSRP, and in fact most are still paying a 1k-3k markup. Every dealer my wife and I have talked to have no plans to drop below MSRP anytime soon. BTW, I live just north of Atlanta so if you see one priced below MSRP let me know and I'll probably buy it!

Shinkaze

Yea, you'll have to get away from Atlanta to get a deal on anything. Heck when I was looking at an M3, Global BMW is *STILL* charging over sticker for the car and it's been out since 2001! anyhow the Autoweek article said they're seeing the deals cropping up on Ebay and Autotrader where dealers are already listing the cars at discount.

-Adam

MSI

I found a couple of V6's discounted but nada on the GT. A couple have them listed at over 30k MSRP and then show THEIR price as 27,XXX and people think they're getting a deal but all the dealer does is jack up that MSRP with the "dealer added markup" and then take a little off that. Dealers are "sticking" people with a high price right now, but the laws of supply and demand rule. Once dealers get a good stock of Mustangs in I highly doubt they will still charge MSRP. I'm not too worried about the pony-car market, or Mustangs at least. They have a very strong core base (like myself) that have owned multiple Mustangs and will continue to do so. Sure, competition has taken some sales away and the price of gas doesn't help the V8 crowd but I think everything is still kosher. You mention some high(er) priced vehicles as competition. Evo's and STi's are not cheap by any stretch, and lets face it, the V6 sales is what keeps the Mustang around, and they can be had for less than 20k. Sure the GTs are high right now but I'm sure in a couple months 25k out the door won't be a problem.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

New style is just out, and folks will pay sticker just to have it. When dealers have a ton of them the prices will go down... Same as any car.

Folks will pay 20's for a sporty v8 with some kick, but not pay mid 30's for a car without navi, and other amenities.

JBsZ06

c6 corvette coupe is already running 2500 to 3 grand discounts..

After the "new" wears off...

The mustangs will be discounted...

Next year when higher performance versions begin to hit the showrooms..

The GT's price will drop for sure.

IMHO

y2k_ta

iTrader: (80)

The Mustang will sell. Look how much positive press it got after the concept came out. Like the production version or not, the car still has quite a following. I personally don't think it'll have any trouble selling.

Shinkaze

Even the Thunderbird Sold, but after a year on the market it started to tank out. The discouraging thing is there are already discounts on this car a month out of the gate. Conversly the Thunderbird didn't have a simialr experience. I have little doubt Ford will sell 10x more Mustangs than Pontiac will sell GTO's, but the real tell will be if it sells as well as planned, because I'm sure GM is using this car as a market indicator for how well a Camaro will do. (And yes I do believe GM will bring the Camaro back, I'm just saying that how well the Mustang does this year will imapct how and in what direction GM takes the car).

-Adam

Gloveperson

iTrader: (9)

One reason why I think people aren't paying over sticker because the car would not be worth it for 30 grand.

My family has a 300c. We bought it for sticker (34,995). Reason being, it was priced correctly. As a dealer, you can only go above sticker if the car is worth more than that. If the car was 40 grand, a 5 series/E-class would have been worth looking at and people will get that over a brand new Chyrsler. This is still a Ford, for 30 grand you can get a BMW coupe and the masses will get that instead of a Ford.

Cars that can go for above sticker realistically are the ones that were priced too low from the factory.

I think GM has to really figure out what to do with the Camaro. I really do think it should be a low production car of strictly V-8's because I do not see people buying them if they didn't want exactly what it gives.