sb427f-car

As the thread title states...what gives? All these threads about new Camaro this, GTO that, and I figured we could actually combine all of them into one and what truely matters...THE UNDERPINNINGs. Obviously, none of these cars see production without a chassis and I think that's the main thing that holds this back, so, what is the real deal? So much misinformation is out there right now (not that this thread will do much better) but is GM toying with us? Is it [GM management] leaking false info to throw DC and FoMoCo into a frenzy and having them not ready to deal with a possible GM RWD coupe or sedan that will grab attention and market share? Do the other Mo. Co.s have moles inside GM and they have been trodden out to the mags to perpatuate great corporate secrecy? Consparicy theorists, here's your chance to shine. Have at it!

Shinkaze

My Info is dated, but the last I heard there was a strong rumor on Camaro riding the Kappa (Solstice) platform on a longer wheelbase for 2+2 duty.

Also there is an updated Sigma about to debut for the Cadillac CTS, so it's possible the GTO/Monaro will ride that platform. There have been rumblings about a CTS coupe so this could be possible.

FWIW this is all hearsay, and the rumor mill has suffered a lot of "Rumor-Reverb" the last few months.

sb427f-car

No, I agree with that Adam, it's just when you read a few threads down about the GTO still being on a Zeta platform (as the MotorRag article reads) it has me going I don't think we'll ever know for sure until it happens, but at least we have a dedicated thread to the consparicies and perhaps could make it a sticky

OctaneZ28

iTrader: (6)

My best educated guess...

Sigma II replaces current Sigma on 2007 CTS (and later other Cadillacs), and current Sigma gets modified to become Sigma-lite. Camaro could be on Sigma-lite.

GTO could end up on that chassis too, but maybe not...

Holden is readying Zeta (aka VE) and the next-gen Monaro will be on it after a hiatus (current Monaro production ends soon). Future GTO could be on a variation of this too.

I'm pretty sure these aren't the only RWD chassis anyway, so who knows.

sb427f-car

Crap I was just kidding about the sticky Though I'd hope it'd slow some of the Camaro and RWD threads down now.

sb427f-car

That's what I don't get...if GM Aussie is still developing Zeta, why is it that they can't do the leg work and share with GM US? Is it US safety standards that Zeta won't meet if it's developed by Holden? I mean, I understand the Lutz memo that we've all seen floating around, but if it's still in development down under, what ultimate purpose does that serve? Or am I not thinking big picture with the back end of the deal, ie manufacturing space and production limitations and costs vs. increased sales and revenue with a Zeta plant here in the states?

Shinkaze

Nah, I'm getting annoyed by all the Rumor-Reverb Motor Trend is causing these days with their long lead times confusing everyone on what is and is not current info.

sb427f-car

No kidding. I dropped MotorRag a long time ago, once I graduated out of car diapers and into "big boy shorts", along with when McDamear (sp?) left. I love how they hit me with a "We want you back" mailing and that hit the t-file as quick as it came in.


Keeping on topic, what are the specs with Kappa. I haven't read much about that chassis

Shinkaze

Kappa underpins the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky convertibles. It's a RWD longitude-motor chassis (like the F-cars). Like most Chassis, it's a flexible plan and could be lengthened to accomodate a 2+2 Sport Coupe with a V8. To that point Mallett Cars is allready planning a LS2 conversion package for the Sky/Solstice.

The issue with Sigma has been that the Firewall is very tall to accomodate SUV applications like the SRX, plus it's a very expensive platform, conversly Kappa was designed from the get-go with shared componetry from the Corvette, and low cost construction.

sb427f-car

Gotcha Adam, thanks for that.

WECIV

Could you build a camaro off a Vette Chassis? Or would that cost entirely too much?

Shinkaze

You *could* build a 4 seat sport coupe off the Vette Chassis, but it would cost too much to be a Camaro. FWIW though, Kappa (Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky) is a derivative of the Y-Body (Corvette) platform in some ways. I read an article saying it was a "low-cost rethink of the Corvette Chassis", and Kappa has been shown to be capable of making a 4 seater.

Kappa (Solstice)


Chevy Nomad Concept ( think this is a 4-seater?)

Delux247

Yeah... you can see the backseat headrests poking up though the rear driver side window.

Shinkaze

2007 Zeta-based Holden Commodore nabbed by AutoBlog
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000947056960/

kaptain cap

GM has revised plans for rwd cars.

GM reverses course, says revised version of Zeta rear-drive architecture is back on track

Automotive News

9/12/05

DETROIT - Six months after General Motors halted plans to use its Zeta rear-wheel-drive car architecture in North America, the company has revived the program.

In an interview with Automotive News last week, Jim Queen, GM's vice president of global engineering, said a revised version of Zeta is back on track.

Engineered at GM's Holden subsidiary in Australia, Zeta was expected to be the basis of the next-generation Pontiac Grand Prix and GTO; the Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo and a new version of the Camaro; and other vehicles. Vehicles in the program were expected to debut as early as 2006.

Queen did not discuss vehicles on the new version of Zeta or timing. Some vehicles that could be in the Zeta program include the next-generation Pontiac GTO as well as a Chevrolet coupe and sedans. They could debut by the 2009 or 2010 model year, say one company source and one industry analyst.

Queen said initial plans for Zeta stretched the architecture beyond its limits for some North American vehicles. "We needed to reassess and reconfigure the program," he said.

"As we started counting who was in and who was out of Zeta, we realized too late" that Zeta would not work in North America, Queen said.

Part of GM's reasoning in slowing Zeta's development was to focus on pulling forward its full-sized SUVs and pickups. GM's next-generation SUVs will debut early next year.

At the time, GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz wrote on GM's FastLane blog that GM had "canceled & plans to build rear-wheel-drive vehicles off the Zeta architecture."

"But that does not mean we've canceled plans to build rear-drive vehicles altogether," Lutz wrote. "We are simply reallocating resources (human and financial) to pull some other programs ahead and get other vehicles to market sooner."

The revised Zeta program is being developed in GM's Australian engineering center. The vehicle line executive on the program is Gene Stefanyshyn, the former vehicle line executive for GM's Epsilon, or mid-sized cars, in North America.

A GM spokesman said no product plans have been approved and that GM still is studying design themes, performance characteristics and variants for Zeta vehicles.

GM uses the term "architecture" to signify a common set of components, performance characteristics, a common manufacturing process, a range of dimensions and connecting points for key component systems.

(end of article)

GM should use styling from their new sports cars with the new rwd cars.

The Pontiac Solstice will get a supercharged or turbocharged I-4 (not both) for the 2007 model year. The Solstice went on sale in August and there are now over 15,000 orders for it (as of early November). The Solstice will be raced in Grand-Am Cup next year.

DETROIT - General Motors Corp. says it plans to race its Pontiac Solstice in future Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) Showroom Stock B-Class races against the Mazda Miata and BMW M3.

The auto maker also will use the Solstice to compete on the Grand Am Cup ST-Class racing circuit in 2006, according to Mark Reuss, executive director of GM's Performance Div.

Reuss says the Solstice that will enter the racing circuit will be the '07 Solstice GT Coupe.

“We have the '06 Pontiac Solstice, (and) right now the car we're introducing doesn't have a roof, so look for that to change,” he tells attendees at the Society of Automotive Engineers conference here.

Reuss says while the Stock-B Class has been dominated by Mazda's Miata, as well as the BMW Z4 and Acura RSX, he expects the Solstice to “take that championship” when the car hits the Stock-B circuit next year.

The Solstice Coupe also will compete in the Grand Am ST Class racing circuit against the BMW 330 and Mazda RX-8 next year, Reuss adds.

The experience gained on the racing circuit will continue to play a vital role in developing performance derivatives of future GM products, he says.

- wardsauto.com





The 2007 Saturn Sky uses the same Kappa chassis as the new Solstice, but it will have more standard features so it will cost more.



check the link for the 2007 Saturn Sky

http://seriouswheels.com/top-2007-Sa...y-Roadster.htm

and this link for the new Pontiac Solstice

http://www.theraceforum.com/index.cf...&form_cat_id=5

kaptain cap

Camaro tops GM's rwd list; Buick Velite concept, Pontiac GTO and Impala also possibilities

By RICK KRANZ | Automotive News

1/16/06

DETROIT - For General Motors Vice Chairman Robert Lutz, the Chevrolet Camaro concept car tops the list of possible vehicles in the automaker's lineup of mid-priced to premium-priced, rear-drive cars for North America.

GM will select vehicles for the program within six months. Production will begin in 2008 or 2009.

Speaking of the Camaro he drove onstage last week at the Detroit auto show, Lutz said, "I know where it fits in the overall enthusiasm ranking. If it was a question of what would you like to do, I would obviously do this one first."

But, he added, "We can't always follow our enthusiasm. We have to do what's right for the business."

GM will weigh the Camaro, as well as the next-generation Chevrolet Impala and a Buick sedan in the rwd car program. The Buick, Chevrolet, Pontiac and Saturn brands are under consideration for rear-drive models.

"We have a big plan for rear-wheel drive," says Gene Stefanyshyn, vehicle line executive for what GM now calls its global rwd architecture. GM previously called the architecture Zeta.

GM needs to fill the rwd gap between its small, sporty rwd cars, such as the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky, and rwd luxury vehicles such as the Cadillac CTS, STS and SRX.

The company delayed plans for mid-sized rwd vehicles last year. Meanwhile, competitors have scored strong sales of rwd cars such as the Ford Mustang and Chrysler 300.

GM is confident that the Camaro will appeal to baby boomers who remember the original. But will it appeal to younger buyers?

Lutz enthusiastically supports the Camaro concept that he unveiled Jan. 9 during the Detroit auto show.

If produced, the Camaro would feature a standard V-6 engine and one or two V-8s, Lutz says. It would be priced competitively with the Mustang.

GM revived its rwd plans late last summer after halting efforts to develop North American vehicles on Zeta last winter. Last winter, GM executives said that the initial plan for the Zeta vehicles was not workable but pledged to develop a new strategy.

Possible Zeta vehicles included the Buick Velite concept, Pontiac GTO and Impala.

Stefanyshyn would not reveal the entire lineup under consideration but said the next-generation Impala "is a possibility."

GM's styling studio has prepared both rear- and front-drive versions of the next Impala, according to an industry source who did not want to be identified.

The engineering of the new group of vehicles will be handled by GM's Holden subsidiary in Australia, which built the Holden Monaro that is the basis for the current Pontiac GTO.

The architecture will debut in the second half of this year on a redesigned Holden model. GM also is considering a rwd model for China.

Stefanyshyn was named vehicle line executive for the Zeta architecture a year ago. After the program stalled, he canceled plans to move to Australia. Now that the program has been revived, he will relocate to Australia in February and restart the vehicle development program for North America.

GM vehicles on the global rwd architecture will have long wheel-bases and short overhangs. All-wheel drive will be available. The Camaro and Velite, a convertible concept introduced at the 2004 New York auto show, demonstrate the possibilities for the architecture.

Stefanyshyn says the global rwd architecture can be used for a wide range of vehicles. Vehicles will be assembled in Australia and North America.

But Opel no longer is considering such a car, says Hans Demant, managing director of Adam Opel AG.

Says Demant: "It is just too big" for Europe.