For those with LTs/Cam...
11-28-2010, 12:32 AM
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For those with LTs/Cam... ...I would like to get some feedback based on your experiences of going with LTs and a cam, and if it is all worth it in the end??? Are the gains worth the expenses with longtubes and a cam?
Here is what I am looking at:
Volant Cold Air Intake - $250
Kooks SS Long Tube Headers - $950
Test Pipes- $200
Comp LSR Cam - $400
Patriot Gold Valve Springs - $255
Comp Cams Push rods - $120
Melling Oil Pump - $200
LS2 Timing Chain Kit - $100
Install - $800
Tune - $400
That's a bit over $3600, which is a lot of money in my opinion, and I'm sure I'll spend more on a few more things here and there (seals, gaskets, hardware, etc.)... is that $3600 really worth the 60-70hp increases you may see with the headers, cam, CAI and a tune? Just seems like a lot of coin for minimal gains, but I would love to hear the afterthoughts of those who have already done this.
Here is what I am looking at:
Volant Cold Air Intake - $250
Kooks SS Long Tube Headers - $950
Test Pipes- $200
Comp LSR Cam - $400
Patriot Gold Valve Springs - $255
Comp Cams Push rods - $120
Melling Oil Pump - $200
LS2 Timing Chain Kit - $100
Install - $800
Tune - $400
That's a bit over $3600, which is a lot of money in my opinion, and I'm sure I'll spend more on a few more things here and there (seals, gaskets, hardware, etc.)... is that $3600 really worth the 60-70hp increases you may see with the headers, cam, CAI and a tune? Just seems like a lot of coin for minimal gains, but I would love to hear the afterthoughts of those who have already done this.
11-28-2010, 01:52 AM
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I would call around for some quotes.
this is the latest I received from a shop in Texas:
"Don't forget about our special going on this week for all LS3 2010 Camaro's! Chuck's Tuning Service stage 2 cam package with Pacesetter longtube headers and offroad midpipes, installed and dyno tuned for 2250.00 out the door! Over 100 RWHP for just over 2000 dollars! Definitely a bargain, if I do say so myself!
I can do the same package on the CTS-V for 2750.00
Let me know if you have any questions! As always, you can call or text me at 832-202-4115
this is the latest I received from a shop in Texas:
"Don't forget about our special going on this week for all LS3 2010 Camaro's! Chuck's Tuning Service stage 2 cam package with Pacesetter longtube headers and offroad midpipes, installed and dyno tuned for 2250.00 out the door! Over 100 RWHP for just over 2000 dollars! Definitely a bargain, if I do say so myself!
I can do the same package on the CTS-V for 2750.00
Let me know if you have any questions! As always, you can call or text me at 832-202-4115
11-28-2010, 02:07 AM
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see, i don't like "packages" because I'm very picky about the individual parts I put on (one "universal" cam will not please all). If I am going to do it, I want to do it right, and properly. such as the right valvesprings, retainers, specific cam spec'd for how I use the car... etc
I would definitely prefer the fit, finish and quality of the Kooks over the Pacesetter headers as well.
Although that is a pretty decent deal regardless!!
I would definitely prefer the fit, finish and quality of the Kooks over the Pacesetter headers as well.
Although that is a pretty decent deal regardless!!
11-28-2010, 02:03 PM
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Why dont you like packages? 99% of the packages out there come with the parts you listed..lol I'd go with a cam kit from TSP or Thunder Racing.
If you are even the least bit mechanically inclined(or have a friend that is), I'd say do the install yourself. Sometimes an extra set of hands can be helpful, but I (and many others) did this entire swap themselves in their driveways. Also, instead of spending $400 to have the car tuned once, spend $500 on HP Tuners and learn to do the tuning so it is always available to you. Some people would rather have a shop do the work and should, but if you are looking to save a LOT of money and know-how, its worth a thought.
EDIT: To answer your question, yes its worth it espically if it is tuned well. I daily drive mine and wouldnt have it any other way.
If you are even the least bit mechanically inclined(or have a friend that is), I'd say do the install yourself. Sometimes an extra set of hands can be helpful, but I (and many others) did this entire swap themselves in their driveways. Also, instead of spending $400 to have the car tuned once, spend $500 on HP Tuners and learn to do the tuning so it is always available to you. Some people would rather have a shop do the work and should, but if you are looking to save a LOT of money and know-how, its worth a thought.
EDIT: To answer your question, yes its worth it espically if it is tuned well. I daily drive mine and wouldnt have it any other way.
11-28-2010, 04:54 PM
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Why dont you like packages? 99% of the packages out there come with the parts you listed..lol I'd go with a cam kit from TSP or Thunder Racing.
If you are even the least bit mechanically inclined(or have a friend that is), I'd say do the install yourself. Sometimes an extra set of hands can be helpful, but I (and many others) did this entire swap themselves in their driveways. Also, instead of spending $400 to have the car tuned once, spend $500 on HP Tuners and learn to do the tuning so it is always available to you. Some people would rather have a shop do the work and should, but if you are looking to save a LOT of money and know-how, its worth a thought.
EDIT: To answer your question, yes its worth it espically if it is tuned well. I daily drive mine and wouldnt have it any other way.
If you are even the least bit mechanically inclined(or have a friend that is), I'd say do the install yourself. Sometimes an extra set of hands can be helpful, but I (and many others) did this entire swap themselves in their driveways. Also, instead of spending $400 to have the car tuned once, spend $500 on HP Tuners and learn to do the tuning so it is always available to you. Some people would rather have a shop do the work and should, but if you are looking to save a LOT of money and know-how, its worth a thought.
EDIT: To answer your question, yes its worth it espically if it is tuned well. I daily drive mine and wouldnt have it any other way.
Also, is there anyone out there that can give me a good recommendation on a cam to go with? The car is a daily driver, but would like to have an aggressive idle and decent lope with minimal surge, something that sounds mean but is streetable, and with a mild overall power curve (car is used for road-racing, auto-x, not much drag).
One thing I keep seeing is people are putting in a 10% to 25% underdrive pulley when they do a cam? is there any major gains with that and is that NEEDED to do the cam?
Last edited by smbstyle; 11-28-2010 at 05:42 PM.
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11-28-2010, 06:11 PM
#8
Unless you know how to tune, don't touch it. take it to somebody who knows what they are dong with the software and know the motor.
i love how people think it is so easy to tune.
i love how people think it is so easy to tune.
11-28-2010, 08:33 PM
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Take a look at this and see if it is something you could follow. If you are mechanically inclined then it wont be so bad. There are a few areas that are pretty tough to get to on the V compared to an fbody and there are a few tools you can pick up to make life easier. Its not for everyone, but worth looking into.
http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=23 EDIT: do not drill the throttle body like the article says!
The only way to learn how to tune is to do it yourself. There are a million good guides out there for beginners. I know I'd rather be able to log and tweak the driveability whever I want...most shops dont do that. They only tune WOT and some basic idle tuning...again it is not for everyone, but there is only one way to learn.
**disclaimer, if you do it and **** it all up, its not my fault..haha**
http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=23 EDIT: do not drill the throttle body like the article says!
The only way to learn how to tune is to do it yourself. There are a million good guides out there for beginners. I know I'd rather be able to log and tweak the driveability whever I want...most shops dont do that. They only tune WOT and some basic idle tuning...again it is not for everyone, but there is only one way to learn.
**disclaimer, if you do it and **** it all up, its not my fault..haha**
Last edited by JJSimon904; 11-28-2010 at 08:40 PM.
11-28-2010, 09:36 PM
#10
Id install the long tubes, and have someone install the cam(which is what i did) because measuring pushrod length, preload on the springs, degreeing the cam are all things that have to be spot on and its not worth the risk IMO for a 500 bucks savings when your already spedning 3k. IMO i felt more of a SOTP gain from the long tubes then I did with the cam.
11-29-2010, 11:16 AM
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Id install the long tubes, and have someone install the cam(which is what i did) because measuring pushrod length, preload on the springs, degreeing the cam are all things that have to be spot on and its not worth the risk IMO for a 500 bucks savings when your already spedning 3k. IMO i felt more of a SOTP gain from the long tubes then I did with the cam.
I think I will have the shop do both at once. Plus, I am only 20 minutes from Jeremy Formato who is a LS tuning god.
Looking at packages, I also saw that TSP sells a PRC Head/Cam package for $2000 including oil pump, timing chain, etc.... would the heads be worth the extra $1400?? What kind of power gains would the heads alone give??
also, is the underdrive pulley neccessary?
11-29-2010, 02:50 PM
#12
wow, really? I thought the cam would be bigger.
I think I will have the shop do both at once. Plus, I am only 20 minutes from Jeremy Formato who is a LS tuning god.
Looking at packages, I also saw that TSP sells a PRC Head/Cam package for $2000 including oil pump, timing chain, etc.... would the heads be worth the extra $1400?? What kind of power gains would the heads alone give??
also, is the underdrive pulley neccessary?
I think I will have the shop do both at once. Plus, I am only 20 minutes from Jeremy Formato who is a LS tuning god.
Looking at packages, I also saw that TSP sells a PRC Head/Cam package for $2000 including oil pump, timing chain, etc.... would the heads be worth the extra $1400?? What kind of power gains would the heads alone give??
also, is the underdrive pulley neccessary?
I guess the reason i felt the long tubes more is because the cam really doesnt shine until the upper part of the rpm range. With PRC heads, cam and long tubes id expect 430 or so depending on the cam, 450 with a FAST.
11-29-2010, 03:24 PM
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Heads youll be buying from them are just gonna be factory style heads that are ported and such, id expect about 15-20 with a cam and long tubes and then even more if you do a FAST intake.
I guess the reason i felt the long tubes more is because the cam really doesnt shine until the upper part of the rpm range. With PRC heads, cam and long tubes id expect 430 or so depending on the cam, 450 with a FAST.
I guess the reason i felt the long tubes more is because the cam really doesnt shine until the upper part of the rpm range. With PRC heads, cam and long tubes id expect 430 or so depending on the cam, 450 with a FAST.
the most cost effective mod appears to be the spray, maybe I'll just do longtubes, a cam and spray, instead of dumping 2k into heads and intake manifold for 40hp.
11-29-2010, 05:03 PM
#14
yep spray is a good bang for the buck and coming from someone who has had it on both his cars, it sucks to not have that power all the time and having to fill the bottle. Its badass when you get to use it but sucks when you dont have it.
dont get me wrong i love it and there arent really any other power adders that hit like nitrous does but if i had more money id do something i could have all the time(blower, turbo, heads/cam) but money was and is tight so ill have to stick with it for now.
dont get me wrong i love it and there arent really any other power adders that hit like nitrous does but if i had more money id do something i could have all the time(blower, turbo, heads/cam) but money was and is tight so ill have to stick with it for now.
11-29-2010, 07:09 PM
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yep spray is a good bang for the buck and coming from someone who has had it on both his cars, it sucks to not have that power all the time and having to fill the bottle. Its badass when you get to use it but sucks when you dont have it.
dont get me wrong i love it and there arent really any other power adders that hit like nitrous does but if i had more money id do something i could have all the time(blower, turbo, heads/cam) but money was and is tight so ill have to stick with it for now.
dont get me wrong i love it and there arent really any other power adders that hit like nitrous does but if i had more money id do something i could have all the time(blower, turbo, heads/cam) but money was and is tight so ill have to stick with it for now.
Maybe for that reason nitrous would be better for me; road course/auto-x take the bottle out, then at the dragstrip throw it back in?
11-29-2010, 09:35 PM
#16
funny you say that, because I came from a kenne bell Cobra with 608rwhp and there were sometimes where I just wish it was N/A. Mostly when I wanted to do road course, I just didnt need all that power and the heat soak was horrible for long periods of time.
Maybe for that reason nitrous would be better for me; road course/auto-x take the bottle out, then at the dragstrip throw it back in?
Maybe for that reason nitrous would be better for me; road course/auto-x take the bottle out, then at the dragstrip throw it back in?
11-30-2010, 08:28 AM
#18
The only way to learn how to tune is to do it yourself. There are a million good guides out there for beginners. I know I'd rather be able to log and tweak the driveability whever I want...most shops dont do that. They only tune WOT and some basic idle tuning...again it is not for everyone, but there is only one way to learn.
**disclaimer, if you do it and **** it all up, its not my fault..haha**
**disclaimer, if you do it and **** it all up, its not my fault..haha**
hell i have had 2 tuners touch my cars. one of them couldn't get my stock z06 over 360hp and the other took it up to almost 400hp with a set of long tubes. cold i have done that, do you know how to read timing tables and what parts to change and how they are supposed to move trough the timing map with no hick ups. do you know the fuel maps and such. there are so many little tweaks and tabs that unless you know what you are doing, you will not get the full potential out of your car, that or you will blow it up.
11-30-2010, 01:30 PM
#20
I see this will be never ending conversation.
Go a head and tune it yourself, just make sure have 3k saved up to rebuild you motor after you blow it up. That or be happy by getting beat by Honda's cause your far makes no power.
Go a head and tune it yourself, just make sure have 3k saved up to rebuild you motor after you blow it up. That or be happy by getting beat by Honda's cause your far makes no power.
