Interest in 06/07 Delrin Cradle Bushings ?
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Interest in 06/07 Delrin Cradle Bushings ?
As discussed in my other thread for the 04/05 bushings.
I was able to get a GP started for the similar but different design for the 2006-2007 Cradle Bushings made in Delrin
Basically everything will be the same (pricing, shipping, paypal) except for the fitment. In this case it is for the updated design of the 06/07 cradle.
1) $250 PLUS shipping & paypal ($10 extra for Canadian orders, eh)
2) Not a company, independent fabricator that did the delrin stuff on my car
3) Unlike the other design, these are getting made right from the start (NO WAITING)
4) Currently all the work has been done on CAD and he should have the final data tomorrow to start machining a set. As of now they will be ready to ship the week of December 3rd...
As usual I will keep the thread updated and PM payment info once it is ready to go...
I was able to get a GP started for the similar but different design for the 2006-2007 Cradle Bushings made in Delrin
Basically everything will be the same (pricing, shipping, paypal) except for the fitment. In this case it is for the updated design of the 06/07 cradle.
1) $250 PLUS shipping & paypal ($10 extra for Canadian orders, eh)
2) Not a company, independent fabricator that did the delrin stuff on my car
3) Unlike the other design, these are getting made right from the start (NO WAITING)
4) Currently all the work has been done on CAD and he should have the final data tomorrow to start machining a set. As of now they will be ready to ship the week of December 3rd...
As usual I will keep the thread updated and PM payment info once it is ready to go...
Last edited by Junior-1; 11-14-2012 at 04:18 PM.
#4
The upgraded delrin bushings remove alot of the slack, and unpredictability from the rear end. Car feels more planted in corners, and driveability is in general improved.
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Yes thats what they were designed to do.
The bushings are inserted into the rear cradle at the 4 mounting points taking up the gap between cradle and frame.
The principle is to eliminate the compliance in the cradle mounting points when the cradle starts to move under hard acceleration. The result is better handling feel and reduced wheelhop.
The bushings are inserted into the rear cradle at the 4 mounting points taking up the gap between cradle and frame.
The principle is to eliminate the compliance in the cradle mounting points when the cradle starts to move under hard acceleration. The result is better handling feel and reduced wheelhop.
#14
#16
I could paraphrase, but since I'm on my phone, I'll simply quote and link:
http://www.matweb.com/reference/shore-hardness.aspx
http://www.motoiq.com/forum/afv/topi.../aft/1022.aspx
http://www.matweb.com/reference/shore-hardness.aspx
http://www.motoiq.com/forum/afv/topi.../aft/1022.aspx
Delrin is a bit of a specialized bushing material - On cars, you can really only use it in joints which rotate on one axis. Delrin is an extremely rigid material. It's so hard it's literally on a different hardness scale from rubber or poly. Yet its threshold of plastic deformation is so low that if you manage to bend or dent it in any measurable way, it won't spring back - it'll just stay dented. Delrin is also unique in this crowd as it's self-lubricating. This means you don't have to keep regreasing them as you would a poly bushing, nor do you have to replace them as often as any of the other bushing materials here.
These characteristics make the stuff great for pivots that only need to rotate on one axis. Good places to use Delrin would be in control arm pivots on a double A-arm car (e.g. Miatas) and the shifter pivot bushings on cars with cable shifters. Just make sure that the joint really does operate on one axis before you install them. Don't, for example, put any Delrin at the front end of any double A-arm Honda. All of the joints in those setups operate on at least two axes (many of which are designed for high misalignment), and it will gouge the hell out of your nice new bushings.
Although you don't need to do it often, regular maintenance is crucial with Delrin bushings. Delrin joints need to be periodically disassembled and cleaned (once a year or so). The reason is that moisture tends to get trapped between the Delrin and the metal sleeves and you get surface rust between the two. This causes the metal to stick to the bushing, which, if left alone, will cause the joint to seize. Sanding all of the surface rust and lightly coating the bushings with marine grease helps fend this off, but this is something you do need to stay on top of.
Between the maintenance and the NVH (which will be transmitted right through the bushing), you probably won't want to install Delrin suspension bushings on your street car. On a track car / race car though, it's a great material that、if used in the right places, works better than polyurethane and save you a ton of money over spherical joints.
These characteristics make the stuff great for pivots that only need to rotate on one axis. Good places to use Delrin would be in control arm pivots on a double A-arm car (e.g. Miatas) and the shifter pivot bushings on cars with cable shifters. Just make sure that the joint really does operate on one axis before you install them. Don't, for example, put any Delrin at the front end of any double A-arm Honda. All of the joints in those setups operate on at least two axes (many of which are designed for high misalignment), and it will gouge the hell out of your nice new bushings.
Although you don't need to do it often, regular maintenance is crucial with Delrin bushings. Delrin joints need to be periodically disassembled and cleaned (once a year or so). The reason is that moisture tends to get trapped between the Delrin and the metal sleeves and you get surface rust between the two. This causes the metal to stick to the bushing, which, if left alone, will cause the joint to seize. Sanding all of the surface rust and lightly coating the bushings with marine grease helps fend this off, but this is something you do need to stay on top of.
Between the maintenance and the NVH (which will be transmitted right through the bushing), you probably won't want to install Delrin suspension bushings on your street car. On a track car / race car though, it's a great material that、if used in the right places, works better than polyurethane and save you a ton of money over spherical joints.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 11-15-2012 at 09:35 AM.
#17
Since (I think) the rear subframe mount is designed to operate on all three axes, Delrin is probably a bad choice due to its low threshold of plastic deformation.
Maybe I'm wrong and the subframe isn't supposed to deflect in more than one axis--Junior1 will probably know.
Maybe I'm wrong and the subframe isn't supposed to deflect in more than one axis--Junior1 will probably know.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 11-15-2012 at 09:56 AM.
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Fuzzy: Definitely that post makes some great points and he did some homework. (same issue with the control arm discussion in the vetteforums) I would take it into consideration for the cradle however...
(back in the day) They were tested in polyurethane and it didn’t help at all. Too flexible of a material, so it didn’t help with the compliance issue. From what I gather there is/was quite a bit of engineering that went into these.
Yes Delrin is a much harder material and is self-lubricating which makes it maintenance free, (mine are in for over 3 years). I think some of the testimonials of the 04/05 guys will help push towards the delrin. Even GM in their attempts to rectify the issue with the old TSB did not go with poly.
The frequency inside the cabin, NVH, etc. (prior to the full track conversion), I didn’t think was bad at all...It did make my rear louder as I mentioned in the other thread but I'd rather help cancel out the axle hop (which wasn't really an issue for me) and the biggest, (IMO) improvement was in the way the rear of the car felt more planted. Naturally you have to pay to play, so there will be some trade off.
There is a place and an argument for both. On one end of the spectrum you have the stock material (too soft) On the other end is BMR (too hard). On the softer side is going to be poly and on the harder side the delrin. Based on the feedback from the 04/05 and personal experience I say delrin. I think it really comes down to a personal preference and intended use...
(back in the day) They were tested in polyurethane and it didn’t help at all. Too flexible of a material, so it didn’t help with the compliance issue. From what I gather there is/was quite a bit of engineering that went into these.
Yes Delrin is a much harder material and is self-lubricating which makes it maintenance free, (mine are in for over 3 years). I think some of the testimonials of the 04/05 guys will help push towards the delrin. Even GM in their attempts to rectify the issue with the old TSB did not go with poly.
The frequency inside the cabin, NVH, etc. (prior to the full track conversion), I didn’t think was bad at all...It did make my rear louder as I mentioned in the other thread but I'd rather help cancel out the axle hop (which wasn't really an issue for me) and the biggest, (IMO) improvement was in the way the rear of the car felt more planted. Naturally you have to pay to play, so there will be some trade off.
There is a place and an argument for both. On one end of the spectrum you have the stock material (too soft) On the other end is BMR (too hard). On the softer side is going to be poly and on the harder side the delrin. Based on the feedback from the 04/05 and personal experience I say delrin. I think it really comes down to a personal preference and intended use...
Last edited by Junior-1; 11-15-2012 at 10:21 AM.
#20
Polyurethane can be made in a very wide range of hardness. From as soft as rubber to as stiff as a hard hat and just as stiff or stiffer than delrin.
The problem with delrin is its memory and rebound characteristics. As fuzzylogic pointed out, when delrin is deformed it does not spring back very well. Polyurethane has excellent rebound and memory characteristics.
Why use delrin when polyurethane performs better and can be made to be just as stiff?
The problem with delrin is its memory and rebound characteristics. As fuzzylogic pointed out, when delrin is deformed it does not spring back very well. Polyurethane has excellent rebound and memory characteristics.
Why use delrin when polyurethane performs better and can be made to be just as stiff?