Aftermarket Driveshaft Options....
07-02-2014, 10:07 AM
#1
Aftermarket Driveshaft Options.... Seems like we have a lot to choose from but reports all over the place about which ones are favored...
Vibrations have been a problem with just about all brands and I haven't been able to figure out of its alignment issues or the fact that they've taken the guibo out which might be making it too rigid???
The only reason I'm saying that it that the carbon one piece from DSS seems to have the best overall reviews and could it be smoother because the carbon shaft has a little give in it which is compensating for the missing guibo?? I have no idea but before I drop $1500 on one, I would like to have more opinions...
There have been some very spirited disagreements between vendors about which is better...one or two piece...
One says the one piece is smoother because it has fewer moving parts and is lighter the other says the 2 piece is smoother because it has that extra set of joints and has made the dirveshaft in 2 lengths which makes it more manageable from a balancing perspective...
WTF guys?
Voodoochikins option makes a lot of sense as well but of course, it leaves that one last piece of rubber in the drivetrain...the guibo. Have thought about the revshift flex coupler or maybe the new camaro flex coupler as a replacement for my 184K stocker cause I just don't see it lasting for long but info is a little inconsistent on all this too...
SO it looks like these are our choices...
DSS, alumunim 1 piece...
http://www.driveshaftshop.com/domest...um-drive-shaft
DSS carbon fiber 1 piece...
http://www.driveshaftshop.com/domest...ber-driveshaft
There have been rumors of a DSS 2 piece aluminium shaft floating around as well....
G-Force 2 piece....
http://www.shop.gforce1320.com/product.sc?productId=183
and the voodoochikin setup....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...t-bearing.html
Opinions please cause its time to pull the trigger either way....
Vibrations have been a problem with just about all brands and I haven't been able to figure out of its alignment issues or the fact that they've taken the guibo out which might be making it too rigid???
The only reason I'm saying that it that the carbon one piece from DSS seems to have the best overall reviews and could it be smoother because the carbon shaft has a little give in it which is compensating for the missing guibo?? I have no idea but before I drop $1500 on one, I would like to have more opinions...
There have been some very spirited disagreements between vendors about which is better...one or two piece...
One says the one piece is smoother because it has fewer moving parts and is lighter the other says the 2 piece is smoother because it has that extra set of joints and has made the dirveshaft in 2 lengths which makes it more manageable from a balancing perspective...
WTF guys?
Voodoochikins option makes a lot of sense as well but of course, it leaves that one last piece of rubber in the drivetrain...the guibo. Have thought about the revshift flex coupler or maybe the new camaro flex coupler as a replacement for my 184K stocker cause I just don't see it lasting for long but info is a little inconsistent on all this too...
SO it looks like these are our choices...
DSS, alumunim 1 piece...
http://www.driveshaftshop.com/domest...um-drive-shaft
DSS carbon fiber 1 piece...
http://www.driveshaftshop.com/domest...ber-driveshaft
There have been rumors of a DSS 2 piece aluminium shaft floating around as well....
G-Force 2 piece....
http://www.shop.gforce1320.com/product.sc?productId=183
and the voodoochikin setup....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...t-bearing.html
Opinions please cause its time to pull the trigger either way....
07-02-2014, 10:17 AM
#2
On The Tree
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems like we have a lot to choose from but reports all over the place about which ones are favored...
Vibrations have been a problem with just about all brands and I haven't been able to figure out of its alignment issues or the fact that they've taken the guibo out which might be making it too rigid???
The only reason I'm saying that it that the carbon one piece from DSS seems to have the best overall reviews and could it be smoother because the carbon shaft has a little give in it which is compensating for the missing guibo?? I have no idea but before I drop $1500 on one, I would like to have more opinions...
There have been some very spirited disagreements between vendors about which is better...one or two piece...
One says the one piece is smoother because it has fewer moving parts and is lighter the other says the 2 piece is smoother because it has that extra set of joints and has made the dirveshaft in 2 lengths which makes it more manageable from a balancing perspective...
WTF guys?
Voodoochikins option makes a lot of sense as well but of course, it leaves that one last piece of rubber in the drivetrain...the guibo. Have thought about the revshift flex coupler or maybe the new camaro flex coupler as a replacement for my 184K stocker cause I just don't see it lasting for long but info is a little inconsistent on all this too...
SO it looks like these are our choices...
DSS, alumunim 1 piece...
http://www.driveshaftshop.com/domest...um-drive-shaft
DSS carbon fiber 1 piece...
http://www.driveshaftshop.com/domest...ber-driveshaft
There have been rumors of a DSS 2 piece aluminium shaft floating around as well....
G-Force 2 piece....
http://www.shop.gforce1320.com/product.sc?productId=183
and the voodoochikin setup....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...t-bearing.html
Opinions please cause its time to pull the trigger either way....
Vibrations have been a problem with just about all brands and I haven't been able to figure out of its alignment issues or the fact that they've taken the guibo out which might be making it too rigid???
The only reason I'm saying that it that the carbon one piece from DSS seems to have the best overall reviews and could it be smoother because the carbon shaft has a little give in it which is compensating for the missing guibo?? I have no idea but before I drop $1500 on one, I would like to have more opinions...
There have been some very spirited disagreements between vendors about which is better...one or two piece...
One says the one piece is smoother because it has fewer moving parts and is lighter the other says the 2 piece is smoother because it has that extra set of joints and has made the dirveshaft in 2 lengths which makes it more manageable from a balancing perspective...
WTF guys?
Voodoochikins option makes a lot of sense as well but of course, it leaves that one last piece of rubber in the drivetrain...the guibo. Have thought about the revshift flex coupler or maybe the new camaro flex coupler as a replacement for my 184K stocker cause I just don't see it lasting for long but info is a little inconsistent on all this too...
SO it looks like these are our choices...
DSS, alumunim 1 piece...
http://www.driveshaftshop.com/domest...um-drive-shaft
DSS carbon fiber 1 piece...
http://www.driveshaftshop.com/domest...ber-driveshaft
There have been rumors of a DSS 2 piece aluminium shaft floating around as well....
G-Force 2 piece....
http://www.shop.gforce1320.com/product.sc?productId=183
and the voodoochikin setup....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...t-bearing.html
Opinions please cause its time to pull the trigger either way....
A friend of mine spoke to one of the engineers that worked on the Sigma platform and he asked what to do about the wheel hop. His answer: One piece drive shaft, hard or solid cradle mounts (he suggested hockey pucks) a harder diff mount and an axle that is smaller on one side. I drove my car for about 20 miles before I took it back and I launched it over 2k twice I had no wheel hop and I had all the torque management removed from the car also.
07-02-2014, 10:23 AM
#4
TECH Resident
i'm trying to figure out what i can upgrade to as well. i need it as my carrier bearing is gone and it's super annoying.
my first go-to choice is the DSS aluminum single piece shaft.
my first go-to choice is the DSS aluminum single piece shaft.
07-02-2014, 10:34 AM
#5
On The Tree
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All GM cars have torque management to save the drive train from blowing up for less warranty claims. For example I had a Grand Prix GXP and a GTP. On the GXP you could literally feel the power getting cut down in between shifts. My GTP was a 97 and those had the least amount of torque management from the factory. 98 on up they kept adding more torque management because people would blow the transaxles on them. I could blow away (on the street) modded later model W-bodies all day with that car. I don't know how many times I would get stopped to be asked what mods I had and I'd say K&N drop in and the looks I would get were priceless. LOL. I had them tune my V and one of the things they did was remove the torque management.
07-02-2014, 11:11 AM
#7
There is not as much flex/squishiness in the rubber flex disc as people think. When in good condition, those things are pretty damn stiff. When using a stock driveshaft with my poly carrier bearing, you get a perfect centered alignment of the driveshaft to the transmission (if using a good stock trans mount or aftermarket mount). By taking out the slop the factory rubber carrier mount has.. You will notice a more direct solid feel of your power from engine/trans...to the rear end. More power is applied to the rear and is not being absorbed by sloppy rubber.
From personal experience, if your differential has excessive gear lash, even with a 1 piece aluminum shaft you WILL hear the clunk still. True with our poly carrier also. Also from personal experience you will get more transmittable vibes from using a one piece shaft that eliminates the rubber flex disc (guibo)... as compared to the stock setup. By using our poly carrier in conjunction with the stock two piece shaft, youre effectively making the first half of the driveshaft into an extension of the trans by keeping it aligned, centered, and rigid, which leaves the back half to act as a one piece driveshaft. The major benefit to the one piece driveshafts is weight. They are quite a big difference in weight from the stock setup.
From personal experience, if your differential has excessive gear lash, even with a 1 piece aluminum shaft you WILL hear the clunk still. True with our poly carrier also. Also from personal experience you will get more transmittable vibes from using a one piece shaft that eliminates the rubber flex disc (guibo)... as compared to the stock setup. By using our poly carrier in conjunction with the stock two piece shaft, youre effectively making the first half of the driveshaft into an extension of the trans by keeping it aligned, centered, and rigid, which leaves the back half to act as a one piece driveshaft. The major benefit to the one piece driveshafts is weight. They are quite a big difference in weight from the stock setup.
Trending Topics
07-02-2014, 12:51 PM
#9
TECH Resident
however, i don't want a stock setup anymore. i want something i can at least service when i need to.
07-02-2014, 08:55 PM
#10
TECH Fanatic
I think the main reason they used a 2 piece as stock is because the shat is so long. To do a single from GM would have been fairly large, as can be seen when guys have the aluminum single piece and have shifter figment issues. The dual allows for a smaller diameter. The carbon is lighter so it can be used as a single piece and still maintain a smaller diameter because the lighter weight increases critical speed so you don't need a giant diameter. I prefer the 2 piece myself. Shouldn't have interference issues, and they are really tough units. Just my preference. I'm sure the carbon singles are very strong but for me, daily driving, in California where people for some reason refuse to tie **** down in their trucks... I'd rather have road debris hit steel and aluminum rather than carbon. I had to dodge a ladder 2 days ago. Not sure what that would have done to a carbon driveshaft... Not to mention the rest of the car.
Last edited by ryridesmotox; 07-03-2014 at 12:13 AM.
07-03-2014, 08:29 AM
#11
I think the main reason they used a 2 piece as stock is because the shat is so long. To do a single from GM would have been fairly large, as can be seen when guys have the aluminum single piece and have shifter figment issues. The dual allows for a smaller diameter. The carbon is lighter so it can be used as a single piece and still maintain a smaller diameter because the lighter weight increases critical speed so you don't need a giant diameter. I prefer the 2 piece myself. Shouldn't have interference issues, and they are really tough units. Just my preference. I'm sure the carbon singles are very strong but for me, daily driving, in California where people for some reason refuse to tie **** down in their trucks... I'd rather have road debris hit steel and aluminum rather than carbon. I had to dodge a ladder 2 days ago. Not sure what that would have done to a carbon driveshaft... Not to mention the rest of the car.
There g-force shaft seems nice but they, as all the other shafts listed above, haven't been issue free...I'm also not seeing a picture of the hub used to adapt to the current V pinion shaft....i'd like to see what i'm buying. Also, wondering if they make an extension to be used to adapt this shaft to an 8.8??? DSS does....or is at least working on it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...ft-issues.html
Here is the link that references a DSS 2 piece but its not on their site anywhere....Working with them could have the added bonus of being able to use their driveshaft extension adapter when I go 8.8....plus they are right down the road but the carbon fiber is hard to justify for what i'm doing and I think you're right, the size of the aluminum one piece might be a challenge at some point.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...installed.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...eed-input.html
At the end of the day, I don't mind investing whatever I need to invest to make the car right because what I have is junk. I just need to know that its going to work. Driveshafts have been used for well over a century and it blows my mind that there are so many problems with one that's in a car where the diff doesn't even move!
Too bad they are on vacation or I'd call DSS to learn more....
Thanks for posting....
Last edited by ls1247; 07-03-2014 at 09:05 AM.
07-03-2014, 08:33 AM
#12
TECH Resident
DSS has a 2 piece unit, it's just not anywhere on their site.
i send a PM to DSS earlier this week and haven't heard anything back. i was interested in using them for the "forum discount" they offer.
i send a PM to DSS earlier this week and haven't heard anything back. i was interested in using them for the "forum discount" they offer.
07-03-2014, 09:00 AM
#13
DSS is showing the 2 piece on their blog but the post is dated 2011.....
http://driveshaftshop.com/blog/?p=792
Looks like their using a cv joint on the diff end of their 2 piece where g-force is using a u-joint....wonder what to make of that???
http://driveshaftshop.com/blog/?p=792
Looks like their using a cv joint on the diff end of their 2 piece where g-force is using a u-joint....wonder what to make of that???
07-03-2014, 09:28 AM
#14
TECH Fanatic
A CV is probably a little smoother. Ultimately it can take the power, hell we have to use 4 (2inners, 2 outers) from our diffs to the wheels. As long as the boot doesn't tear it a CV is good to go. But a u joint is more rugged in extreme applications. I'd honestly prefer a u joint because of its simplicity and bullet proof functionality. But it doesn't matter to me either way as long as it works.
07-03-2014, 09:53 AM
#16
TECH Fanatic
07-03-2014, 10:07 AM
#17
To do a single from GM would have been fairly large, as can be seen when guys have the aluminum single piece and have shifter figment issues. The dual allows for a smaller diameter. The carbon is lighter so it can be used as a single piece and still maintain a smaller diameter because the lighter weight increases critical speed so you don't need a giant diameter. I prefer the 2 piece myself. Shouldn't have interference issues, and they are really tough units. Just my preference. I'm sure the carbon singles are very strong but for me, daily driving, in California where people for some reason refuse to tie **** down in their trucks... I'd rather have road debris hit steel and aluminum rather than carbon. I had to dodge a ladder 2 days ago. Not sure what that would have done to a carbon driveshaft... Not to mention the rest of the car.
The one piece carbon shaft has every bit of diameter the aluminum one has.
The two piece after market shafts are not smaller diameter like the stocker, they are all larger.
For something to hit your carbon shaft it would have to some how make it past the exhaust shielding it, and I'd imagine the chances of this are astronomically low. Either way with either shaft if a piece of debris hit it the likely hood of it not needing service is slim to none. The 1 piece shafts are not very thick or rigid.
Like you said, forget about what ever this piece of debris does to the rest of your car.
It's like this OP (in my opinion) the 1 piece aluminum is limiting to 150 MPH or less! So IMO thats out.
The two piece shafts....there is just more to go wrong. Carrier bearing, joints etc. There is no benefit to them IMO, there is more chance to add a vibration feel to the car, as the shaft is mounted to the body of the car. As far as the length debate look at pickup truck shafts, some have carrier bearings, some are really LONG!
The 1 piece carbon is lighter, plenty strong, and is just an amazing piece. (if you can't tell I'm biased)
Now, my advice, do a cost benefit analysis. How much do you want to spend? Does that high mileage beast have a future with you? 8.8? If you're thinking about the 8.8 make sure you get a shaft that will work along with the 8.8 later on. Are you ever going to go faster than 150? Or make enough power to break a carbon shaft? The 1st manual V1 into the 10's is rocking a 1 piece carbon shaft. Will the weight benefits help your revs and shifts at a road course?
The most noticeable thing I can tell you about a 1 piece shaft is the responsiveness of it. It seems to me that with a two piece there was a delay of sorts at hard launches, that does not exist now with my 1 piece.
Good Luck!
Edit: Oh I forgot, the stock shaft is not aligned. There are no timing marks for it, and its design makes it unnecessary for it to be timed. The guibo bushing, I have not seen or heard of a successful install of one or the revshift stiffer version. The two I can think of are Fuzzylogic, and Radeon, both installed them and immediately removed them because of increased vibration issues. With that, a new OEM is the best way to go IMO. All, aftermarket shafts no longer use that bushing as far as I'm aware. It is removed from the system and replaced with a solid mount adapter. Also, your motor mount and transmission mounts will all compliment/exaggerate these things.
Last edited by NIKDSC5; 07-03-2014 at 10:45 AM.
07-03-2014, 10:18 AM
#18
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The few torque failure tests I've seen shaft vs shaft the composite CF was waayy stronger than steel or aluminum.
If and when I upgrade I will be going carbon fiber for sure..
I think nik asked all the right questions .
If and when I upgrade I will be going carbon fiber for sure..
I think nik asked all the right questions .
07-03-2014, 10:29 AM
#19
Ok, the shifter fitment issues have been addressed by DSS with all their new shafts.
The one piece carbon shaft has every bit of diameter the aluminum one has.
The two piece after market shafts are not smaller diameter like the stocker, they are all larger.
For something to hit your carbon shaft it would have to some how make it past the exhaust shielding it, and I'd imagine the chances of this are astronomically low. Either way with either shaft if a piece of debris hit it the likely hood of it not needing service is slim to none. The 1 piece shafts are not very thick or rigid.
Like you said, forget about what ever this piece of debris does to the rest of your car.
Thanks again Nik and I appreciate the tool lending/buying thing we worked out for my overhaul!
It's like this OP (in my opinion) the 1 piece aluminum is limiting to 150 MPH or less! So IMO thats out.
The two piece shafts....there is just more to go wrong. Carrier bearing, joints etc. There is no benefit to them IMO, there is more chance to add a vibration feel to the car, as the shaft is mounted to the body of the car. As far as the length debate look at pickup truck shafts, some have carrier bearings, some are really LONG!
The 1 piece carbon is lighter, plenty strong, and is just an amazing piece. (if you can't tell I'm biased)
Now, my advice, do a cost benefit analysis. How much do you want to spend? Does that high mileage beast have a future with you? 8.8? If you're thinking about the 8.8 make sure you get a shaft that will work along with the 8.8 later on. Are you ever going to go faster than 150? Or make enough power to break a carbon shaft? The 1st manual V1 into the 10's is rocking a 1 piece carbon shaft. Will the weight benefits help your revs and shifts at a road course?
The most noticeable thing I can tell you about a 1 piece shaft is the responsiveness of it. It seems to me that with a two piece there was a delay of sorts at hard launches, that does not exist now with my 1 piece.
Good Luck!
Edit: Oh I forgot, the stock shaft is not aligned. There are no timing marks for it, and its design makes it unnecessary for it to be timed. The guibo bushing, I have not seen or heard of a successful install of one. The two I can think of are Fuzzylogic, and Radeon, both installed them and immediately removed them because of increased vibration issues. With that, a new OEM is the best way to go IMO. All, aftermarket shafts no longer use that bushing as far as I'm aware. It is removed from the system and replaced with a solid mount adapter. Also, your motor mount and transmission mounts will all compliment/exaggerate these things.
The one piece carbon shaft has every bit of diameter the aluminum one has.
The two piece after market shafts are not smaller diameter like the stocker, they are all larger.
For something to hit your carbon shaft it would have to some how make it past the exhaust shielding it, and I'd imagine the chances of this are astronomically low. Either way with either shaft if a piece of debris hit it the likely hood of it not needing service is slim to none. The 1 piece shafts are not very thick or rigid.
Like you said, forget about what ever this piece of debris does to the rest of your car.
Thanks again Nik and I appreciate the tool lending/buying thing we worked out for my overhaul!
It's like this OP (in my opinion) the 1 piece aluminum is limiting to 150 MPH or less! So IMO thats out.
The two piece shafts....there is just more to go wrong. Carrier bearing, joints etc. There is no benefit to them IMO, there is more chance to add a vibration feel to the car, as the shaft is mounted to the body of the car. As far as the length debate look at pickup truck shafts, some have carrier bearings, some are really LONG!
The 1 piece carbon is lighter, plenty strong, and is just an amazing piece. (if you can't tell I'm biased)
Now, my advice, do a cost benefit analysis. How much do you want to spend? Does that high mileage beast have a future with you? 8.8? If you're thinking about the 8.8 make sure you get a shaft that will work along with the 8.8 later on. Are you ever going to go faster than 150? Or make enough power to break a carbon shaft? The 1st manual V1 into the 10's is rocking a 1 piece carbon shaft. Will the weight benefits help your revs and shifts at a road course?
The most noticeable thing I can tell you about a 1 piece shaft is the responsiveness of it. It seems to me that with a two piece there was a delay of sorts at hard launches, that does not exist now with my 1 piece.
Good Luck!
Edit: Oh I forgot, the stock shaft is not aligned. There are no timing marks for it, and its design makes it unnecessary for it to be timed. The guibo bushing, I have not seen or heard of a successful install of one. The two I can think of are Fuzzylogic, and Radeon, both installed them and immediately removed them because of increased vibration issues. With that, a new OEM is the best way to go IMO. All, aftermarket shafts no longer use that bushing as far as I'm aware. It is removed from the system and replaced with a solid mount adapter. Also, your motor mount and transmission mounts will all compliment/exaggerate these things.
The high mileage beast is gonna stick around because there isn't a car built today that I can buy for less that 30K that holds any real interest for me or fits my needs so I'm rocking on to 400K one way or another...
Up to 150mph? Maybe not anytime soon because I have to rely on the car but I'll definitely go 8.8...that's why i'm leaning towards DSS.
1 piece or 2 piece? whichever is smoothest...no drag or road racing in my future...that's what motorcycles are for. I understand that added complexity of a 2 piece shaft and i too have owned some trucks over the years with long 1 pieces and not so long 2 pieces and all of them vibrated but that's what trucks with big tires do....
for now the g-force one is out......just not being able to adapt to an 8.8 down the road would rule this one out in the long run.
I'd rather keep the added $500 for the carbon fiber shaft but if that's the general consensus, that's probably what i'll do. But at this point, i'll wait until DSS gets back from vacation and get more info on their 2 piece before making the call...lucky for me I live just down the road from those guys so i guess its time to pay them a visit.
Thanks again Nik for the reply and I appreciate your help with the tool rental during my overhaul!!!!!
07-03-2014, 10:45 AM
#20
On The Tree
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My two-piece G-Force shaft is holding up great. I get more vibes than stock, but I'm also on all poly mounts, and the billet aluminum adapters don't dampen vibration like the stock rubber piece of garbage. I have zero shifter interference. It weighs only 12 pounds more than stock, but is better in every way in my opinion.