wes8398

iTrader: (2)

Picked up a set of black seats to swap into my grey interior, and have some questions for you guys about getting them looking their best. They are out of an 06 write-off parts car. They're in decent shape, but the alcantara is pretty dirty and the leather (is that really even leather? lol) has a few areas of fading/cracking/almost-peeling that I'd like to clean up. I've done some general Google searching and come up with a few tips/tricks, but wondered if anyone here has any experience with any products/tools/methods that they'd recommend (or advise against).

Specifically, if you've used any form of leather "dye" to re-do really worn spots, I'd like to hear about it. I would assume these have to come in vehicle specific colours, but I'm starting to get the impression that maybe black is black is black....?

Thanks guys. Cheers!

FuzzyLog1c

iTrader: (4)

There's very little you can do with the OEM seats. Reupholstering them is a crime--the money you spend can be put toward a massive weight reduction and elimination of the need to adopt the "V1 brace position" when cornering.

wes8398

iTrader: (2)

While I appreciate your input, Fuzzy, I have to disagree with you. From what I've seen so far when Googling "leather repair" and similar terms; there are definitely some great, inexpensive ways to get these seats looking great again. It'll just take some TLC and the right products and tools. That's why I wanted to see what folks here have had first-hand experience with. The Autogeek detailing forum is an amazing resource that I've used in the past, so I'm doing lots of reading over there too. Just wanted to poll the people here to see what they had to say.

Maybe I wasn't clear on what I was trying to do, but the seats are far from requiring reupholstering. They're just... "well lived in"... we'll say. The Alcantara is in awesome shape; just dirty. The leather is where most of the wear 'n tear has taken place. There's some creasing and a bit of discolouration in small areas. There's also a little bit of "flaking" taking place in a couple small spots, but you have to look close and touch it to notice.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

I've had good luck cleaning the alcantra with diluted woolite...works really well. Seat leather can be dyed from what I've heard but I've never done it and haven't really looked that closely into it either.

Breaking out the credit card and buying a new set of seats is one way to go but for general use, the V seats are fine so I look forward to seeing what you do here.

bmylez

iTrader: (3)

You can't just swap out seats in the V1...the seat belt is integrated into it, so good luck figuring out that nightmare alone. Another issue is fooling the signals to the seat harness so that your airbags still deploy correctly.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

Based on Fuzzy's pictures, I think you just have to convert your V to a Bimmer and then the Recaros install just fine. At least, I'm assuming that's why his advice to switch the OEM seats out was followed by pictures of BMW interiors.

bmylez

iTrader: (3)

Switching to Bimmer is pretty much always the answer.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

This is probably the sort of stuff you're already turning up in your own searching, but just to contribute... On another forum I frequent there's a guy who opened a used car lot down in FL and does a lot of his own detailing. Some comments from him:

In a later post he said this video is the same steamer machine he's got, and the techniques demonstrated are what he does - Best Interior Detailing Tricks: Leather and Plastics - YouTube.

A couple other folks chimed in with good results from Leatherique products, with a couple example links - http://home.insightbb.com/~todd.kenyon/leather.htm and http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=601668. Some pretty impressive results there.
A while back I found a recommendation for a good leather restoration/repair kit on Ebay. I bought one for the V. Then, like many things on the "to do" list for my 3 cars, I did nothing with the kit , so it's out in the garage somewhere. (I'm still in the process of unpacking after a move, and the garage is largely in boxes still). I haven't been able to find which forum/thread it was where I got the idea, but if I turn it up I'll post it.

FuzzyLog1c

iTrader: (4)

This is one reason why I'm tired of posting--anything short of a technical dissertation that covers all the bases gets picked to pieces by people that don't understand that when I say, "don't bother," there's a lot behind that. I'm always taking the academic approach on this stuff--if anything, that's what I should be remembered for here.

Here's the short version: I've spent $250+ and who knows how many hours (and garbage bags) brushing, scrubbing, and baking every recommended leather cleaning and conditioning combination I could afford into my seats--examples include Zaino Z-9 Cleaner and Z-10 Conditioner (meh cleaner with a wicked strong leather smell), Leather Honey Leather Cleaner and Conditioner (meh, will dramatically change the color of beige and even dark brown leather, very faint scent), Lexol 1112 pH Neutral Cleaner and 1013 Conditioner (strong--can destroy some types of leather, annoying to clean off), Leatherique Leather Rejuvenator and Prestine Clean (great performance, unpleasant ammonia smell, time-consuming application process), Wolfgang Leather Care and Conditioner (meh), and so forth.

After each treatment, however, the results on my seats were invariably the same--they just looked darker because they were a little cleaner. At first, I thought I saw a slight reduction in minor creases, but it turned out to be an optical illusion. Since these results sucked compared to my expectations, I did some more digging.

Turns out, our seats are not leather--they're leatherette. A fancy name for vinyl. Which explains the miserable durability of the seats, the lack of a response to even the best leather cleaners, and why the best results I ever got on the seats was by scrubbing with simple soap and water followed by Mother's VLR or Blackfire Interior Protectant. Right about now, you may be wondering what my impressions of the above leather products were based on--later on, I tried all of the above products on some of my real leather shoes and my Visconti messenger bag. Real leather responded immediately to those products--I actually ruined some shoes with Lexol and irrecovably stained some other ones a very unflattering shade with Leather Honey. By comparison, you can just leave a pool of Lexol on the CTS-V seats and the next day, nothing will happen. Because they're vinyl--plastic--effectively inert. Vinyl doesn't have pores like leather does and can't be repaired once it cracks unless you shell out unnecessarily large amounts of money for someone to come and fill and paint the cracks in it.

Jezus

Fuzzy have you found a way to swap seats?

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

If you actually answered the question in your original post then you wouldn't bring these tiresome replies upon yourself. Rather than advising wes8398 that he shouldn't re-upholster his seats (something that he hadn't asked about nor alluded to) and posting pictures of cars that aren't CTS-Vs with new seats (which he also hadn't asked about) you could have just said:

There you go. Your own words actually answering the question.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

I look at technical dissertations quite frequently but unfortunately, it can be the guy who can't read that winds up getting things done because he knows things you don't. I can appreciate the approach you take but sometimes the complexity doesn't make sense. Just because you've tried what you think is all that can be done, doesn't make it so.

Personally, I'm glad you're back because I'm anxious to see how some of your past mods have worked out...case in point, the spindle swap.

Gus_Mahn

iTrader: (1)

I don't believe this is completely correct. Domestic cars with "leather seats" have always had a combination of leather and vinyl. The sides of the seats are vinyl and the seating surfaces are leather (- the inserts on the V). Domestic cars have always used low quality leather, but the quality started getting better somewhere around the time the V! came out. The leather on a V1 V is much better quality than you'd see on a C or K GM truck of similar build years.

Automobile leather has a plastic finish which is basically impermeable. There is really no way to treat the base leather. It can be recoated/filled to make the appearance better, but the light colored stitching makes the re-coating obvious.

FuzzyLog1c

iTrader: (4)

The STS-V/CTS-V2 spindle swap (including the weldable A1020 subframe reinforcement tabs and press-fit 7075-T6 conical seats), 4140 HT press-fit spherical lower shock mounts, 4130 HT colleted front and rear tie rods (no jam nuts), direct 5x120 SKF wheel bearing swap with embedded spindle encoder, AN12/10 fuel system, and coordinated electrical power distribution system are all done but will not be going online unless I can figure out some s**t that should be unnecessary.

I'm done having my work copied while simultaneously being accused of having no skills (despite having a MSEE and an effective BSME minus thermo), of stealing someone else's designs, of advertising for every product I've ever tried to defend or organize a group buy for, and of regurgitating internet wisdom despite going against the internet constantly. I was even texted some conversations from Facebook in 2014 where a few guys were discussing messing up my CTS-V.

This situation complete and utter b******t and you know it. You and I (and about seven other members) are not on good terms and that's unlikely to change without some serious apologies happening. This post aside, I do very little complaining about it compared to the torrent of tears and indignant rage we have to listen to every time the other side gets called out for something they did.

FuzzyLog1c

iTrader: (4)

Yes, it is true that synthetic automotive "leather" has improved to the point where it looks like real leather. However, the "leather" portions of the V1 seats are synthetic fabric with sprayed-coat color and clear with a spritz of chemical leather fragrance applied in the finishing stages. The inserts are microsuede--synthetic polyester fabric.

Obviously, there are upsides and downsides to using synthetic fabrics. Because they have no pores, synthetic materials don't absorb spills and they're easier to clean. And they're cheaper to manufacture. But their useful lifetime is 1/10th to 1/4th of actual leather. I've had all kinds of shoes and messenger bags with both types of materials. A good pair of leather shoes or a leather bag can supposedly last a decade or more (I'm going on 6 years with one leather bag, for instance). By contrast, I've destroyed a pair of synthetic "leather" shoes in under a month with the miles that I walk.

I'm done for now. My recommendation stands--warm water and soap, and finish with Mother's VLR or Blackfire Interior Protectant. Use VLR if you prefer a matte finish and IP if you prefer a semi-gloss finish. These also work well on the dashboard and plastic side panels.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

Well frankly I never thought of us being on any kind of terms and as far as apologies goes, I owe you none because all I've ever done is disagreed with you. Obviously you're keeping score.

So I'm one of the "fuzzy 8"? I guess that I should be impressed?

Gus_Mahn

iTrader: (1)

No where in the RPO codes or sales literature does it say synthetic seating surfaces. It does say "leather seating surfaces, leather wrapped steering wheel, leather wrapped shift ****". Look closely at the headrests and sides of the seats. They are obviously a different material than the seating surfaces. The seating surfaces are coated leather.

wes8398

iTrader: (2)

Well that escalated quickly. I’m completely out of the loop regarding the drama that's being referenced here. As total outsider who's completely impartial to either "side" of this dispute though, I will say that I think there are a few people around here who have a real hard time accepting criticism of any type, let alone accepting that this forum brings many, many different perspectives, experiences, skill levels, and personality types. Just because someone questions you or disagrees with you, doesn't mean you need to get your panties in a knot and start crying foul. It would seem that some of the more “technically advanced” folks around here also have a hard time “dumbing it down” for those of us average Joes. Don’t get frustrated/mad at us because you over-complicate questions and unintentionally turn mole hills into mountains. There's a time and a place for super-technical talk, and a time and a place for lay-speak. Perhaps judging which applies where is the difficult part of all this.

Fuzzy specifically - I don't know how I could possibly have been any more polite with my response to your original post. I thanked you and I stated why I didn’t necessarily agree. I didn't personally attack you. I didn't tell you to go **** your hat. I just disagreed and tried to make sure I was getting my intentions/expectations clear so that we were on the same page. I don't know how that deserved the "this is one reason I'm tired of posting" comment. If you would have left your first response to that of your last response in post #9 (minus the first paragraph)– then I think all the frustration that this has caused you could have been avoided. Maybe not though.

That reply in post #9 and those along the lines of what AAIIIC posted in post #8 are what help answer the OP. AAIIIC’s post may not have been pictures of a V, but it was still much more applicable than the suggestion that the only answer was retrofitting aftermarket seats and pictures of BMW’s. Regardless, I always appreciate your input and any assistance you’ve been willing to offer.

Back on topic… While I’m sure we can all agree that “leather” really isn’t leather in most main stream vehicles; wouldn’t most products that are mass-made for general automotive interior leather cleaning/restoration/protection be made to work with the fake-ish “leather” that most vehicle interiors are made with? On the other hand, are our V1’s a special breed that are among only a few NOT to use actual, natural leather? I would hope not – especially considering the somewhat prestigious Cadillac name on it.

Now if our leather interior IS the same as the vast majority of other leather interiors out there, I have to wonder how and why there can be so much evidence of nearly miraculous leather restorations that can easily be found on YouTube, AutoGeek forums, and so on. Am I to believe that other vehicle's leather can be restored like this, but not mine? I would hope not...


EDIT: Came across a good write-up over at the AG forums. 2 pages plus one more post that are worth reading. There is confirmation from the OP on page 2 that the suggested products are also safe and effective on "leatherette" and/or "coated leather" - one of which likely applies to our "leather". Sauce: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...r-removal.html



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tlorenzen

I haven't been around here long enough to understand the drama either

Anyways, I'm interested to see what has worked as well as the microfiber suede / alcantara (whatever it is) on my black seats is kind of faded as well. I used Griots for regular maintenance on the leather of my old base cts and and liked it but it doesn't seem to be as good for a deep cleaning/fix-up.

isis

iTrader: (1)

It's a Cadillac. Shouldn't have driven it so much.