barrok69

I'm currently making 484whp and wondering what my current limitations are as far as motor goes.

Current config:
Stock 5.7L LS6
Two step colder iridium plugs
112 Maggie with 2.7" pulley
90mm TB and Snout
Kooks 1 7/8" Longtubes
Corsa Cat-back
Lingenfelter Airbox with K&N
3.73 Aluminum 8.8 etc.
40,000miles on the motor.

I'd like to get around 550whp and assuming it will cost ~$2k. I'd like a reliable, durable motor that I don't have to worry about changing the valvetrain every 20k miles etc. So far my current setup has been rock solid for reliability and delivers a very good driving experience, but I'd like a little bit more top end

So I'm looking at the following parts to get me there. If anybody has suggestions or preferred parts please chime in and guide me in the right direction.

Cam - GT9/GT11 (still unsure which one is actually better for a mild street car)
Rockers - Trunion upgrade (any particular brand I should be looking at? Comp cam/BTR ?)
Valve Springs - Brand? Necessary?
Valves - Necessary? bigger? 3/5 angle valve job?
Lifters - need to change?
Pushrods - new length I'm assuming
Timing chain - C5.R
Heads - Necessary? or are stock 243's flow numbers good enough?
Head Bolts - Necessary? studs or bolts?
Headgasket - Necessary?
Forged Rods - Necessary?
Rod Bolt - Necessary?
Piston Rings - Gap for Boost?
Forged Pistons - Necessary?
Forged Crank - Necessary?
Oil Pump - High flow Necessary?
Meth injection - Is it reliable and is there a way to have the tune recognize whether you have it or not? (dual tunes?)
Heat Exchanger upgrade from Maggie supplied unit - Necessary?
1:1 rears for Maggie - Necessary?

Those are some initial thoughts after doing a bit of research. I've never built an LS motor before so this will be my first go at it. I've seen people just throw a cam and keep the rest pretty much stock and put out some really good numbers. I'm looking for mild power and great reliability. something I can drag, road course race and then drive 2500miles across the country without a worry.

I'm not sure I really need any more power/torque below 3000rpm so I'd like to see the bump in power above 3k. Got to keep up with those Hellcats! They start to creep away from me above 120mph.

Thanks for the help!

DMM

The two cams you listed are horrible choices for what you want. Ramp speeds will beat the **** out of the valve train. Look into Martin Smallwood and/or Brain Tooley. I'd keep your distance from anything Ligenfelter.

RockyBalboa

550whp on a bottom end should be safe. However, I still think you'll be riding around on borrowed time even with 550whp. (more susceptible to breakage).

I do know some with ~600 with no problems at all. So it really depends on the application I guess.

I'd have some internal parts laying around just in case.

Good luck with the build sir.

Naf

iTrader: (1)

Gt9 is a great cam and so is the gt11. The gt9 will make more than the gt11. Everyone here that ran both cams enjoyed the power and eventually installed the gt9 and left it alone

Go with snow mpg max kit where you could adjust for boost and inj duty.

Everything else is good...dont forget hv oil pump and setrab oil cooler...

Enjoy it, and dont be afraid to ask for someone reputable to do all the install..

barrok69

I understand the need for the oil cooler depending on application, but what justifies the need for the high volume oil pump? Is the pump necessary because of adding a cooler?
As far as I know the stock oil pumps have really good durability and supply quite a bit of pressure, more than enough for most peoples needs. Thoughts?

Naf

iTrader: (1)

You need the hv oil pump for more power means more pressure on the bearings. So you need a pump that can squeeze more oil in there so you dont scratch the bearings and journals...

This is the first upgrade i do when i open the engine.

My caddy at idle is 3.8bar cruising at 1700rpm i am at 5bar. I may be a little on the high side...

jclayc

iTrader: (8)

I've got this blower cam (new) I'd let go for cheap: http://leperformance.com/lepmagnachargerblowercam.aspx. Same thing goes for a secondary HX from FrozenBoost.

And if I had the front cover open for a cam, yeah, I'd replace/upgrade the oil pump and at least the timing chain.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

That's not how it works at all lol. High volume oil pump is just that, Capable of more volume at the same pressure as a standard pump.

DMM

When NAF agrees with you, it's a significant indicator that you seriously need to reconsider your thought process.

Nobody runs either of those cams. They beat the **** out of the valve train with their fast ramp profiles and still make less power than alternative cam profiles which don't.

Do yourself a favor, at least tak to Martin or Brian. They're great guys and won't steer you wrong.

DMM

This is the most common reply to almost every one of NAF's comments.

88BlackZ-51

Julian needs to chime in!! Well you are a 2.6 pulley away from 500 rwhp. I found most comes down to finding a very good tuner. We made the same power and I dont have headers but have the 2.6 pulley with no belt issues.

I think all you need is the right blower cam and rear maggie pulleys to get there bud.

barrok69

I'll give them a call this week and see what they say.

As far as bottom end goes, what is the LS6's limit? I've heard people say just put in some new rod bolts and you're good to go.. any truth to that? Or should I look at putting in forged con rods and pistons at that point? How stout is the crank?

Martin Smallwood

iTrader: (2)

When I worked at Tick, I have personally seen a Maggied G8 with valve stem tips completely ruined along with rocker arm pads that had a GT9 camshaft installed. It is just too much lift for a car that sees street miles and it will damage the rocker arm pads and valve stem tips.

Granted on a race only application usually that kind of lift is OK, as I ran .660" lift on my race engine with stock rocker arms. Much different application though that sees many less valve open/close cycles than a street engine.

The LSK lobes are known to be very aggressive and in Comp's lobe book it specifically states for race only engines and that the lobes are VERY aggressive. I believe the word "very" is actually in bold capital letters.

I've done several Maggie 112 cams that were very successful in making great power. A few have seen 550rwhp-570rwhp with the camshafts I've done, granted they were spinning the blower pretty fast.

At the power levels a Maggie 112 will produce, rod bolts and forged rotating parts are not needed.

Naf

iTrader: (1)

The problem is once you start to swap out parts for the bottomend whats stoppin you from strokin it and ported heads and a 2300 sc and before you know it the bill is through the roof.

The biggest limitation is your sc, it will have a hard time keepin up with your demands, and once you get that right you will have belt slip, so you will upgrade to 8/10rib pulleys. Then injectors, fuel pump, fuel lines and reg for the stock is just too restrictive...

Call Lpe they know what can and cannot be done.

The bottomend is tricky, i have seen them go 500rwhp and even 550rwhp. Its all about the tune and how much boost your are pushing. My stock rings gave out and thats what started my addiction.

If you get your pushrod length right you wont have an issue with your valves and rockers failin. I have seen larger cams go in with stock components and not fail, but the owners took the time to properly choose the correct pushrod lengths. Also an added change is they go from 5w30 oil to 5w50 or even 60 oil.

itsslow98

iTrader: (18)

I can see 550rwhp on a dyno with a relatively cool engine, how would you say they performed after driving aorund in warm weather for 30min? The ones I have seen in that power range lose a LOT when IATs are high from overspinning the blower and decently warm weather.

IMO I think 550rwhp with a maggie is a pride thing since it's likely not going to perform at that level on the street. I would consider selling the maggie and putting the cam money towards an eforce setup.

DMM

The stock bottom end should be just fine; the 112 is your limiting factor. One thing you may want to consider would be to add a 150 or a 175 shot to get you that top end bump you're looking for when the Maggie runs out of lungs. That'd get you what you're looking for without having to reengineer a Maggie 112 into something it was never designed to be.

If you do anything to the bottom end, go with forged rods and Pistons with the appropriate ring gap for FI. The stock crank is fine and has lived behind many high HP builds.

Have you done any mods to the intercooler system? I'd suggest a FrozenBoost dial pass heat exchanger and upgraded pump if not. The upgraded pump helps a lot.

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

Add heads, Advanced Induction comes to mind, as well as a meth kit and/or an upgraded heat exchanger. Keep the stock cam if you don't want to add springs to your maintenance regime, you'll still hit or be awfully close to your goal.

rand49er

I don't see a larger crank pulley on your list. Easier than doing the 1:1 on the maggie.

Also, I like DMM's suggestion of improving the heat exchanger. Higher flow pump maybe? Bigger HEX?

Going to a 3.91 rear axle will get you about 5% more power, and I don't think it would sacrifice anything at the top end.

Just some thoughts. Good luck!

rjm27

2007V got great results with 1:1 rears and a BTR cam on his mp112.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...1-1-rears.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...v1-maggie.html


..I picked up a used high helix mp112 this time last year, the rear pulleys were swapped so instead of stock underdriven .83:1 ratio, it's now 1.2:1 overdriven at the rear. You have to install one of the pulleys backwards but the pulley swap works. With the overdriven rears and 3.4 pulley on the front I'm spinning it to about 18,000 rpm. With that 2.7 pulley you're spinning it to a max of about 15,700rpm.

I haven't installed my DW300 fuel pump yet but once I do and get the tune dialed in I'm planning to hit the dyno and will post results. For now I 'm not going WOT. I have the stock cam and installed Pac 1218 springs. Would go with a BTR cam if I decide to go that route, based on everything I've read here. Also got the recommended HEX from frozenboost.

1BADCTS

iTrader: (17)

Cam it, overdrive the blower, trunion/spring/pushrod upgrade, and put in a super chiller to suppress heat soak. That would be my path and be at least within reason of your budget and would be a great daily driver.