Found a clean one! Maintenance/upgrades around 50,000 miles and other noob questions
05-14-2016, 09:27 AM
#21
Sorry but NASIOC is the premier site for regurgitated misinformation. You can't trust the oil reports from there because those engines wash the oils down with fuel due to the awful off the shelf tunes and bad tuners in general. that's why so many of them spin bearings by 75k miles. It's not the brand of oil.
05-16-2016, 09:36 AM
#22
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CS now has 3 levels of hardness in poly for their motor and tranny mounts. I have the stage 1 (softest) and I'd challenge you to characterize it as anything but stock based on driving it. It's very smooth, I ALMOST wish I'd gone stage 2 but for a DD, it is fantastic. Voodoochikin's driveshaft/carrier service is on my list when my stocker starts acting up.
Over the years, I have delved into this several times, this issue of "best oil." Bobistheoilguy is a great forum. What I've researched, learned from others, and seen myself boils down to, generally: Amsoil 1, Redline 2, Royal Purple 3...with Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum slipping in and out from time to time. This is dependent on the particular product and system usage. I go with RP because it's really good and readily available in my area. I've used M1, Castrol Syntec, Penn Plat, Redline, RP, and Amsoil over the years, all with good results judging from performance, longevity, and looking at the innards of more than one of my engines and others. If I needed 20k+ oil change intervals or was using my vehicle in a life dependent situation, I'd go Amsoil. I use Redline ATF in my 4Runner. Otherwise, I like the balance of performance, price and availability of RP for my purposes. I may eventually start ordering Amsoil, it does seem to be the ultimate best for the most in both auto and moto usages from what I have seen. More important is to actually use a good oil and change it regularly, including gear, trans, etc. Protocol is more important than product. YMMV
Over the years, I have delved into this several times, this issue of "best oil." Bobistheoilguy is a great forum. What I've researched, learned from others, and seen myself boils down to, generally: Amsoil 1, Redline 2, Royal Purple 3...with Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum slipping in and out from time to time. This is dependent on the particular product and system usage. I go with RP because it's really good and readily available in my area. I've used M1, Castrol Syntec, Penn Plat, Redline, RP, and Amsoil over the years, all with good results judging from performance, longevity, and looking at the innards of more than one of my engines and others. If I needed 20k+ oil change intervals or was using my vehicle in a life dependent situation, I'd go Amsoil. I use Redline ATF in my 4Runner. Otherwise, I like the balance of performance, price and availability of RP for my purposes. I may eventually start ordering Amsoil, it does seem to be the ultimate best for the most in both auto and moto usages from what I have seen. More important is to actually use a good oil and change it regularly, including gear, trans, etc. Protocol is more important than product. YMMV
I was on the phone with Creative Steel just a few minutes ago scheduling the delivery of the rest of the 8.8 stuff and had an interesting conversation with Max. I decided to trade my black bits out for red(harder) and was advised of two things:
1) They only make the transmission mount in black because any harder and he says they got bad vibration there.
2) Red or solid engine mounts I was told are not beneficial in the same way they are in the suspension parts. He said that he almost never recommends the red or solid engine mounts unless the car is 800HP+ and the driver doesn't care about potential of blurry(vibrating) mirrors and the like when a cam or other vibration-inducing mods are present.
I took his advice so I'll have red everything save for black engine and transmission mounts.
YMMV; that's my plan.
1) They only make the transmission mount in black because any harder and he says they got bad vibration there.
2) Red or solid engine mounts I was told are not beneficial in the same way they are in the suspension parts. He said that he almost never recommends the red or solid engine mounts unless the car is 800HP+ and the driver doesn't care about potential of blurry(vibrating) mirrors and the like when a cam or other vibration-inducing mods are present.
I took his advice so I'll have red everything save for black engine and transmission mounts.
YMMV; that's my plan.
You should never run a harder transmission mount than your engine mounts. When your transmission mount is harder than your engine mounts, the transmission assumes the load that the motor mounts are designed to handle. Consequently, you run a significant risk of breaking the bellhousing (look it up if you're curious--plenty of examples). Max doesn't understand why, but it sounds like he's learned something by trial and error at least.
Royal Purple engine oil is one of the most horrifyingly bad products on the market. Go look up some oil reports or read some of the user reports on the NASIOC forums... it skews in viscosity badly (e.g. going from 5W30 to 5W20 within a few thousand miles). AMSOIL and Redline are your premium options. Mobil 1 if you're cheap. But you'll see double the metals in your oil if you use Mobil 1.
Royal Purple engine oil is one of the most horrifyingly bad products on the market. Go look up some oil reports or read some of the user reports on the NASIOC forums... it skews in viscosity badly (e.g. going from 5W30 to 5W20 within a few thousand miles). AMSOIL and Redline are your premium options. Mobil 1 if you're cheap. But you'll see double the metals in your oil if you use Mobil 1.
I was leaning toward Royal Purple due to availability, but I'll look into it a bit more now. We used Redline for years in our Banshees and I can attest to the quality of that product, so I might just go that way.
05-16-2016, 09:53 AM
#23
You should never run a harder transmission mount than your engine mounts. When your transmission mount is harder than your engine mounts, the transmission assumes the load that the motor mounts are designed to handle. Consequently, you run a significant risk of breaking the bellhousing (look it up if you're curious--plenty of examples). Max doesn't understand why, but it sounds like he's learned something by trial and error at least.
Royal Purple engine oil is one of the most horrifyingly bad products on the market. Go look up some oil reports or read some of the user reports on the NASIOC forums... it skews in viscosity badly (e.g. going from 5W30 to 5W20 within a few thousand miles). AMSOIL and Redline are your premium options. Mobil 1 if you're cheap. But you'll see double the metals in your oil if you use Mobil 1.
Royal Purple engine oil is one of the most horrifyingly bad products on the market. Go look up some oil reports or read some of the user reports on the NASIOC forums... it skews in viscosity badly (e.g. going from 5W30 to 5W20 within a few thousand miles). AMSOIL and Redline are your premium options. Mobil 1 if you're cheap. But you'll see double the metals in your oil if you use Mobil 1.
Thanks.
05-16-2016, 10:32 AM
#25
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05-16-2016, 11:38 AM
#26
I can say also that the service CS gave was top notch, as good as any I've experienced. I was just slightly hesitant the first time, just because they were new to me. The second time I ordered from them, after needing some help, it was EASY and will be easier still next time. After seeing it mentioned and looking, they only offer one hardness for the tranny mount, the softest, which is smart. Having equally soft mounts front and rear is smart and a softer tranny mount will always lead to a more comfortable ride. I can see how having too hard a tranny mount could lead to stress fractures from oscillations in extreme cases.
05-16-2016, 03:35 PM
#27
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And down the rabbit hole I go....
As I said in my first post my plan for this car was a conservative upgrade path, as I'm confident the cheapest and easiest way to get a stock V1 to 500rwhp is to buy a V2. The one mod I knew I wanted was a full exhaust system. Knowing I'd be doing the bushings and that they should be done together, I spent most of my day off yesterday trying to weigh the pro's and con's of each component (particularly the headers). The fact that I wanted to run cats complicated the system and my decision. My original plan was to go with Pacesetters coated/armor headers (~$420) and Magnaflow high-flow cats (~$250). After estimating it'd be at least $200 to have the exhaust shop weld everything up I'd be at ~$870 for a non-stainless, 'low budget' system.
I started looking into the OBX/Maximizer headers (~$735), as what I gathered was that just about everyone who runs them likes them. Still, this thread made me think twice. I honestly would have ordered a set last night had the return terms been more favorable, but I hated the idea of having to cover shipping both ways and pay a 20% restocking fee if the parts arrived in sub-par condition (~$300). I'd still have to have the exhaust shop do a bit of work connecting it to the stock catback (~$100), bringing the total to ~$830. This option was now (reluctantly) at the top of my list. I figured I'd give it a night and sleep on it before making my decision.
Taking the car for a drive today (and every other day since I bought it), I can't help but appreciate how clean it is. During my search I saw many V's with high miles, five or more owners, hacked wiring, questionable modifications, and shortcuts I feel were beneath these cars. It made me proud to have a clean example. Maryland Speed has been running a couple different promotions for the Kooks and the catted connection pipes which bolt to the OEM system, but at ~$1,400 they were still well over my budget. This morning I noticed an old post by them which mentioned giving them a call regarding deals, so I figured there'd be no harm. That turned out to be completely wrong, as they made me a great deal and my wallet is now much lighter. I'm sure there's a reason so many people go this route, even with lower cost options on the market. Turns out that right now the cost to go this route was only a few hundred bucks more than the riskier alternative, and I couldn't be happier.
Also on the way are new AC Delco iridium spark plugs, new AC Delco wires with protect-a-boots, an Airaid non-oiled drop in air filter, and a couple cans of Seafoam. I'll be ordering the mounts, bushings, and Amsoil fluids soon.
So much for waiting for good deals on used parts....
As I said in my first post my plan for this car was a conservative upgrade path, as I'm confident the cheapest and easiest way to get a stock V1 to 500rwhp is to buy a V2. The one mod I knew I wanted was a full exhaust system. Knowing I'd be doing the bushings and that they should be done together, I spent most of my day off yesterday trying to weigh the pro's and con's of each component (particularly the headers). The fact that I wanted to run cats complicated the system and my decision. My original plan was to go with Pacesetters coated/armor headers (~$420) and Magnaflow high-flow cats (~$250). After estimating it'd be at least $200 to have the exhaust shop weld everything up I'd be at ~$870 for a non-stainless, 'low budget' system.
I started looking into the OBX/Maximizer headers (~$735), as what I gathered was that just about everyone who runs them likes them. Still, this thread made me think twice. I honestly would have ordered a set last night had the return terms been more favorable, but I hated the idea of having to cover shipping both ways and pay a 20% restocking fee if the parts arrived in sub-par condition (~$300). I'd still have to have the exhaust shop do a bit of work connecting it to the stock catback (~$100), bringing the total to ~$830. This option was now (reluctantly) at the top of my list. I figured I'd give it a night and sleep on it before making my decision.
Taking the car for a drive today (and every other day since I bought it), I can't help but appreciate how clean it is. During my search I saw many V's with high miles, five or more owners, hacked wiring, questionable modifications, and shortcuts I feel were beneath these cars. It made me proud to have a clean example. Maryland Speed has been running a couple different promotions for the Kooks and the catted connection pipes which bolt to the OEM system, but at ~$1,400 they were still well over my budget. This morning I noticed an old post by them which mentioned giving them a call regarding deals, so I figured there'd be no harm. That turned out to be completely wrong, as they made me a great deal and my wallet is now much lighter. I'm sure there's a reason so many people go this route, even with lower cost options on the market. Turns out that right now the cost to go this route was only a few hundred bucks more than the riskier alternative, and I couldn't be happier.
Also on the way are new AC Delco iridium spark plugs, new AC Delco wires with protect-a-boots, an Airaid non-oiled drop in air filter, and a couple cans of Seafoam. I'll be ordering the mounts, bushings, and Amsoil fluids soon.
So much for waiting for good deals on used parts....
05-16-2016, 05:17 PM
#28
HA! Yep, they got me too, a week ago.
Waiting is no fun. And there just aren't that many of these cars(V1) around so if you're waiting for used parts it will be a long wait on average. Just drink a six pack before you open your next credit card bill.
Waiting is no fun. And there just aren't that many of these cars(V1) around so if you're waiting for used parts it will be a long wait on average. Just drink a six pack before you open your next credit card bill.
05-16-2016, 05:23 PM
#29
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05-16-2016, 08:42 PM
#32
As far as the CJ, it's such a game changer with a LS. It's light and fun and the drivetrains are actually pretty sturdy. I would be surprised if one person ever said they regretted it. I had a 5.3/SM465 in mine in the first iteration and it was still fun and surprisingly quick.
05-17-2016, 11:21 AM
#33
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Thanks. Should be back on it this weekend as most of the suspension and 8.8 stuff will be in. Also made a killer deal on renting a little shop space from a friend so been dragging all nonessentials out of my garage to give me room to really work.
As far as the CJ, it's such a game changer with a LS. It's light and fun and the drivetrains are actually pretty sturdy. I would be surprised if one person ever said they regretted it. I had a 5.3/SM465 in mine in the first iteration and it was still fun and surprisingly quick.
As far as the CJ, it's such a game changer with a LS. It's light and fun and the drivetrains are actually pretty sturdy. I would be surprised if one person ever said they regretted it. I had a 5.3/SM465 in mine in the first iteration and it was still fun and surprisingly quick.
He has all of the parts sitting in the shop to build a 400-500hp 350 roller motor, but he uses it for the street/sand/woods. I'm certain a 5.3 with bolt-ons and maybe a cam would be a much better fit, and he'd probably get ~20mpg (that's a guess, am I close?). Any length issues running an auto (4l60e/4l80e) and matching TC behind a 5.3 in the CJ-7? I haven't looked into it much.
05-17-2016, 01:59 PM
#34
Proper work space is critical! My parents just bought a tiny 2br/1ba house on 8 acres, but out back is a 4 bay shop. Planning on finding a deal on a used lift for a housewarming gift
He has all of the parts sitting in the shop to build a 400-500hp 350 roller motor, but he uses it for the street/sand/woods. I'm certain a 5.3 with bolt-ons and maybe a cam would be a much better fit, and he'd probably get ~20mpg (that's a guess, am I close?). Any length issues running an auto (4l60e/4l80e) and matching TC behind a 5.3 in the CJ-7? I haven't looked into it much.
He has all of the parts sitting in the shop to build a 400-500hp 350 roller motor, but he uses it for the street/sand/woods. I'm certain a 5.3 with bolt-ons and maybe a cam would be a much better fit, and he'd probably get ~20mpg (that's a guess, am I close?). Any length issues running an auto (4l60e/4l80e) and matching TC behind a 5.3 in the CJ-7? I haven't looked into it much.
Depending on gears and tires, a CJ is light enough and 5.3 efficient enough that 20mpg is attainable on the highway IMO.
Good reading for your dad to see what a stock LM7 (early 5.3) will do with stock GM cams and a couple aftermarket below. Note that later 5.3s have LS2 heads and will perform even better.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...st-comparison/
05-17-2016, 02:15 PM
#35
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Definitely need a cam to get to 400 with a 5.3 but not much of a cam. Novak specifically sells all the bits to make a 4L60 mate right up to the Dana 300.
Depending on gears and tires, a CJ is light enough and 5.3 efficient enough that 20mpg is attainable on the highway IMO.
Good reading for your dad to see what a stock LM7 (early 5.3) will do with stock GM cams and a couple aftermarket below. Note that later 5.3s have LS2 heads and will perform even better.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...st-comparison/
Depending on gears and tires, a CJ is light enough and 5.3 efficient enough that 20mpg is attainable on the highway IMO.
Good reading for your dad to see what a stock LM7 (early 5.3) will do with stock GM cams and a couple aftermarket below. Note that later 5.3s have LS2 heads and will perform even better.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...st-comparison/
05-18-2016, 09:53 AM
#36
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I just picked up a 2004 V with 120k on the clock for $8,500 2 weeks ago and I have already started ordering parts myself. I had a 2007 CTS-V back in 09' and loved it but it lived a short life RIP. I now have a 800whp fully built/custom C6 that has been my baby for 5 years but I have 2 young boys that love doing car events with me so I need more seating capacity. As soon as the Vette sells I will be on the hunt for a good deal on a blower/twins/or big single setup for the V. I'm deployed right now but my brother has the V at his shop in Louisiana and is hooking me up on a few things before I return and bring the car back to FL with me.
Here is my list so far... **** adds up quick!
Bushings (Motor mounts, trans mounts, Cradle, diff) $450from CS shipped
Sway bar kit
Poly driveshaft carrier
Intake tube/K&N/Cut L/E of inlet behind grille
VooDoo Driveshaft
All fluids changed
Plugs/wires
Decarb in the intake and top end-
When the cam goes in:Ported TB/Intake (see below) or FAST setup
25% ATI Balancer
160* T-stat
Timing chain
Cam(on hand)
Springs(on hand)
Pushrods(on hand)
Lifters/rockers ?
BAP/Fuel rails/new injectors (on hand)
Water pump
High volume Oil Pump
Major Mods:
8.8 Rear
Blower/turbo(s)
Other goodies being installed while I'm gone:
Twin Disc Clutch
Stage 2 Tranny
Forgestar F14 19x10/19.9 (on hand)
H&R Lowering Springs with MickeyMouse Spacers(onhand)
Hurst Shifter (on hand)
Pacesetter LTs wrapped (on hand)
Cat delete w/ Stainless Works Catback (Already installed)
Here is my list so far... **** adds up quick!
Bushings (Motor mounts, trans mounts, Cradle, diff) $450from CS shipped
Sway bar kit
Poly driveshaft carrier
Intake tube/K&N/Cut L/E of inlet behind grille
VooDoo Driveshaft
All fluids changed
Plugs/wires
Decarb in the intake and top end-
When the cam goes in:Ported TB/Intake (see below) or FAST setup
25% ATI Balancer
160* T-stat
Timing chain
Cam(on hand)
Springs(on hand)
Pushrods(on hand)
Lifters/rockers ?
BAP/Fuel rails/new injectors (on hand)
Water pump
High volume Oil Pump
Major Mods:
8.8 Rear
Blower/turbo(s)
Other goodies being installed while I'm gone:
Twin Disc Clutch
Stage 2 Tranny
Forgestar F14 19x10/19.9 (on hand)
H&R Lowering Springs with MickeyMouse Spacers(onhand)
Hurst Shifter (on hand)
Pacesetter LTs wrapped (on hand)
Cat delete w/ Stainless Works Catback (Already installed)
05-18-2016, 10:07 AM
#37
Hey Dirty, since you've got that laundry list and high mileage already, you may want to include either control arm bushings from CS or replace the control arms (the rears in particular). You'll want to replace the rears when you do the cradle bushings since you'll need to lower the cradle to remove the arms.
I did my cradle and trailing arm bushings recently and now have a pronounced wandering problem from the rear which I'm attributing to the worn spongy bushings in the control arms. I've had it aligned and it only helped slightly. Now I need to find the time to drop the cradle again, but time is limited and I don't have a 2nd car. I'm at 154k, BTW.
I did my cradle and trailing arm bushings recently and now have a pronounced wandering problem from the rear which I'm attributing to the worn spongy bushings in the control arms. I've had it aligned and it only helped slightly. Now I need to find the time to drop the cradle again, but time is limited and I don't have a 2nd car. I'm at 154k, BTW.
05-18-2016, 10:51 AM
#38
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Hey Dirty, since you've got that laundry list and high mileage already, you may want to include either control arm bushings from CS or replace the control arms (the rears in particular). You'll want to replace the rears when you do the cradle bushings since you'll need to lower the cradle to remove the arms.
I did my cradle and trailing arm bushings recently and now have a pronounced wandering problem from the rear which I'm attributing to the worn spongy bushings in the control arms. I've had it aligned and it only helped slightly. Now I need to find the time to drop the cradle again, but time is limited and I don't have a 2nd car. I'm at 154k, BTW.
I did my cradle and trailing arm bushings recently and now have a pronounced wandering problem from the rear which I'm attributing to the worn spongy bushings in the control arms. I've had it aligned and it only helped slightly. Now I need to find the time to drop the cradle again, but time is limited and I don't have a 2nd car. I'm at 154k, BTW.
Thank you very much! I knew there was still plenty I was missing. I only had my first V for 30 days before I totaled it.... so I never got a chance to do any mods other than intake and tune. I also plan to set some money aside for a Thompson shortblock so I'm ready when this motor goes. My goal is 700whp that is daily-able. I have a truck that's my daily now but I want something I can drive more often. My vette NEVER sees rain and I rarely drive it. I plan on driving the V a lot more. I'm open to all other suggestions as well. I figured I would post my list and maybe it would help the OP or others looking for a good start to a mod list. Seems like he got a cherry!
