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So progress is being made. Got a shop lined up but they cannot get to the heads for another three weeks. Also, spent sometime on the phone with a gentleman from Brian Tooley racing yesterday discussing potential component upgrades.
All that being said, during the disassembly I noticed some crud on some of the power steering lines. From the looks of it you'd think it has been there for ever but I don't recall seeing it when I changed the oil about 4 months ago. With kids running around maybe I missed it but I'd hope something like this would throw up a red light if I noticed it.
Anyway, since I have taken the top end off there is obviously fresh fluid around the engine in various places so I decided to look for other places that I might find what looks to be older grim.. After looking around for about 10 minutes I noted this on the backside of the engine right behind where the intake would sit (right behind valley cover)..
Thoughts? Enough reason that I should pull the engine before doing this upgrade or am I over thinking it?
Or are the two even related? I guess the grim on the lines could be a power steering fluid leak but I haven't noticed any changes or other indications that I have a PS fluid leak.
The reservoir wouldn't even register low with that little amount of fluid you're seeing there. Hydraulic hoses can weep and I'll assume that's what yours is doing. I replaced mine and 30k miles later, the replacement hose assembly started weeping.
The oil on the back of the engine is more than likely from the oil pressure sending unit. Just replace it and move on.
Are you over thinking it? The stuff you just pointed out isn't a big deal... its an old car with lots of miles on it so you can expect this kind of stuff.
I recommended nothing more than lapping the valves and putting valve stem seals in it. I stick by that because once you start you won't stop and unless the rest of the car is super nice, it probably isn't worth investing a ton of money on. You can buy one already modified with fewer miles on it for less money than you'll have building yours.
I, too, had that power steering hose weep like that. I replaced mine when I replaced my engine. I vaguely recall the tech at the dealership telling me that it's a pretty common problem.
My power steering hose also started leaking after I got this project back together. I guess when I removed the PS Pump I moved it around too much. I replaced it with a new OEM hose and almost immediately it developed the same amount of crud on it, but it's not losing fluid. I don't recall topping of the PS fluid since then either and that was 53k miles ago.
My power steering hoses weep as well. I just haven't gotten around to replacing them yet.
Brakekleen is your friend. I'd just clean up everything you can get to while everything's apart so it's easier. Then keep an eye on things later. If you drive in rain or snow (yikes) your car is going to get dirty.
Unless it's black.....then it's just dirty as soon as you wash it. lol
BTW, if all you need to have done to the heads is a bolt removal, that shouldn't be put 3 weeks out. I'd find another shop. I plopped mine on a head shop's counter, went to work, and they called me an hour later saying it was ready to be picked up. Cost me $20 which I was happy to pay.
Which is why I wouldn't mess with it too much. I wouldn't even do lifters unless you didn't mark them and they aren't going back into the hole they came out of.
Originally Posted by ls1247
I recommended nothing more than lapping the valves and putting valve stem seals in it. I stick by that because once you start you won't stop and unless the rest of the car is super nice, it probably isn't worth investing a ton of money on. You can buy one already modified with fewer miles on it for less money than you'll have building yours.
Ls1247, the sage advice is much appreciated and I have actually delayed doing anything on the car while I thought this through after reading numerous replies on this thread and discussions about other higher mileage builds on this forum. However, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m not going to be getting a new ride anytime soon. Got a 3 yr old and a 2 month old plus the wife is in a nice new big SUV.
That being said, since I’m not going to be freeing up the funds (and despise car payments) to buy a newer V or other ride I figure its best to just invest in the one I have and enjoy it.
BTW, if all you need to have done to the heads is a bolt removal, that shouldn't be put 3 weeks out. I'd find another shop. I plopped mine on a head shop's counter, went to work, and they called me an hour later saying it was ready to be picked up. Cost me $20 which I was happy to pay.
The three weeks out was for getting the stud out as well as having the heads ported.
If this is your daily, do NOT do a cam. Your family life/budget is likely to suffer when something expensive takes a dump. It's awfully tempting because it's such a good power bump "while you're in there" but to do that makes springs a maintenance item and speeds up the sand dial on your engine's life. Headers are not a huge hit to reliability, I think porting the heads is good risk too. I could even make the case of a FAST intake, power with no real reliability hit. They all will hurt some since, even assuming a proper street/dyno tune, you're going to hammer the car more often and reduce the life anyway. If this is not a daily and/or your wife is relaxed about cars breaking, do a cam. Otherwise, keep the short block and cam stock and freshen up the stock pieces as ls1247 and others have suggested. My .02...
wow cam going to hurt engine life? if you pair it with the right springs and components i cant see it changing much. a good tune and enjoy it. most of us beat on a stock cam so driving style really doesnt change. its just being able to pull on that 5.bro or whatever thinks their hot **** when the opportunity presents itself. there are way too many 50k+ mile after cam motors out there with zero issues to think that a cam with the correct supporting changes is going to make your motor fail faster.
you dont need some crazy lobes with insane lift to have a good cam. if there is anything i could see as a byproduct that might hurt its spinning the car much deeper in rpm. instead of staying in the 6k and lower you could be seeing 6700 or so, maybe an older motor would hurt cam bearings faster...who knows.
there are so many cammed cars out there and they are not drag racing from light to light every hit on the way to work. i have 146k on the clock and car runs great on stock cam. i intend on doing a compression check and if everything looks good which i expect it to then i will be camming it soon.
If this is your daily, do NOT do a cam. Your family life/budget is likely to suffer when something expensive takes a dump. It's awfully tempting because it's such a good power bump "while you're in there" but to do that makes springs a maintenance item and speeds up the sand dial on your engine's life. Headers are not a huge hit to reliability, I think porting the heads is good risk too. I could even make the case of a FAST intake, power with no real reliability hit. They all will hurt some since, even assuming a proper street/dyno tune, you're going to hammer the car more often and reduce the life anyway.
I agree with springs becoming a maintenance item if going up from an LS6 cam. For others that might read this going up from an LS2 cam you can get a good bump and stay on bee hive springs.
Headers, unless coated, IMO are a fairly large reliability hit in our cars due to the increase in under hood temps. Every loom gets crispy and every wire gets gooey.
IMO a FAST intake wo a cam is not going to net much in terms of hp/$. You are correct that it is much less of a reliability hit (although I have seen several where the threaded inserts holding the TB in place work out).
The big thing with ANY changes is to make sure you get a good tune to accompany the mod. The more and more I play with mine the more and more I realize how critical and complicated tuning is. Most can make it go fast down the track but making it a fun and reliable daily driver is another story. Moral of the story - small changes to the engine only require small changes to the tune (typically) big changes to engine and performance require big changes to the tune that take a long time to sort out for a daily.
I'm not saying he shouldn't do a cam, it's hard to say no to the sound and 40+ extra rwhp that one single mod provides. However, if you think it doesn't affect engine reliability then you're simply wrong. The truth is that ANY upgrades that add power WILL reduce reliability and/or longevity to some degree, period. Whether you will feel that or not depends on
1. the magnitude of your mods and
2. how over-engineered and well screwed together your engine/driveline is and
3. how long and how hard you actually use the car.
Specific to a cam change, in a BEST case scenario, you are adding spring changes (every 15k - 50k) as a maintenance item. Do some people go longer? Sure, but far more don't. You can't listen to the sewing machine noise of most cam packages and think there is no compromise in that hammering of the valvetrain. Even relatively mild lobes add valvetrain wear and the added power adds stress to each level of the system. If there was no compromise in reliability to a cam, GM could simply offer different cam options instead of going to the trouble of more displacement, blowers, etc. You can certainly optimize a combo for reliability and support that with maintenance (including springs for cams) but by definition it will not be OEM reliability. If you can manage that and go in eyes wide open, awesome. Most people don't realize this when they jump off into a cam because they are (rightly) intoxicated by the short term bang for the buck awesomeness. If you daily the car significant miles and/or have a family that relies on that modded vehicle, you need to consider these realities before leaping. I stand by both my point and recommendation.
Agree with SSsnake. FAST will pick you up good power, especially under the curve so long as you tune it. Peak numbers range from 10-30hp depending on the combo. Like ported heads, it's an airflow upgrade so mechanical wear and tear is limited to the stress from the extra power. This is similar to headers BUT sssnake makes a great point about the heat reducing the lifespan of the piddly **** we end up having to mess with over time. Hell, any time you turn a bolt you increase the odds of breaking something or uncovering something. Also agree that a good STREET tune is key, along with a dyno tune for any mods. Any thing that changes your mixture too lean is risky, especially in hot climates. Too rich and you foul O2s and deal with that crap. Is all this worth it? You make the call but DO go in eyes wide open and lean on advice from the people with scar tissue and exposure to large amounts of data. If it's a daily, consider carefully.
Sorry it has been so long since I've responded to this thread but I wanted to say thanks again for the all the advice. I finally got the engine along with the heads back from the machine shop and am getting ready to start the build. I'll start a new thread to layout the build and ask for advice along the way.
Heck yeah it was. 3 weeks turned into almost 6 months. In fairness to the shop things were crazy at work during 4th quarter so I told him I wasn't in any hurry. Plus I had them do I lot more work than I originally planned.
08-09-2016, 07:40 PM
